Salvation by grace through faith; not through works / law-keeping.

[justbyfaith]

The "love of God" is not a feeling, or sensation, some sort of supernatural emotional energy, but a Person: the Holy Spirit, called the Spirit of Christ by the apostle Paul, in whom we obtain the life of Christ. (Romans 8:9-15; Titus 3:5-8; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20; 1 John 4:13, etc.) The Holy Spirit is "the love shed abroad in our hearts."

The fruit of the Spirit is love; joy, peace...

Having the love of God in your heart will produce the feelings of joy and peace.

What do you mean by, "the result is the same"?

That if you do not have the love of God, it means that you are not saved.

Not that you need to have the love of God in order to be saved; but that the love of God is the sure result of being saved, and therefore if you do not have it, it is a sure sign that you are not saved.

The Gospel properly understood, though, will lead me to a love for God (1 John 4:16-19) and the indwelling Spirit will manifest the love he is more and more in me over time, but a deep, evident, over-riding love for God does not need to be apparent in my life as a new convert in order for me to be truly saved.

If anyone is truly saved, then the love of God will be evident in his/her life. So, if the love of the Lord isn't evident, it is a sure sign that the person isn't saved.

This is, though, what is happening when a believer says that the inevitable result of the indwelling Spirit - love for God - is a necessary result.

If the love of God inevitable in a true believer's life, then not having the love of God would be the evidence that that person is not a true believer.

 

[Tenchi]

The fruit of the Spirit is love; joy, peace...

Having the love of God in your heart will produce the feelings of joy and peace.

The Holy Spirit is not a feeling; he's a Person. Being God Himself, the Holy Spirit's desire (love) for God the Father, and Christ, the Son, is perfect and an essential feature of his divine nature. He imparts his own love (desire) for God to us as we give him control of our hearts and minds. To reduce a love for God to mere feelings of joy and peace misunderstands very seriously what God means by His love. And we call joy, joy and peace, peace (rather than love) because neither joy nor peace are love.

That if you do not have the love of God, it means that you are not saved.

Not that you need to have the love of God in order to be saved; but that the love of God is the sure result of being saved, and therefore if you do not have it, it is a sure sign that you are not saved.

See my boat analogy. It just doesn't follow that an absence of the love of God in one's life means one is not saved.

If anyone is truly saved, then the love of God will be evident in his/her life. So, if the love of the Lord isn't evident, it is a sure sign that the person isn't saved.

Again, see my boat analogy. What is inevitable - all things being what they should be - is not what is necessarily necessary. Just like there are all sorts of reasons why a boat isn't floating on water, as it was meant to do, there are all sorts of reasons why a genuinely born-again person isn't manifesting the love of God, as they ought to do. But just as we wouldn't say a boat in dry-dock isn't a boat, or an apple tree not bearing apples isn't an apple tree, we wouldn't say a Christian not displaying the love of God is not a Christian - or, at least, we shouldn't.

If the love of God inevitable in a true believer's life, then not having the love of God would be the evidence that that person is not a true believer.

No. If you'd read and thought through my analogy about the boat and had considered it in light of the many instances in Scripture where genuine believers are not acting Christ-like, you'd have realized that what you're doing in your statement here is confusing inevitable with necessary. Doing so is the road to legalism. Beware.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Holy Spirit is not a feeling; he's a Person. Being God Himself, the Holy Spirit's desire (love) for God the Father, and Christ, the Son, is perfect and an essential feature of his divine nature. He imparts his own love (desire) for God to us as we give him control of our hearts and minds. To reduce a love for God to mere feelings of joy and peace misunderstands very seriously what God means by His love. And we call joy, joy and peace, peace (rather than love) because neither joy nor peace are love.

Yes, I will say that love is not in word only but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18).

However, the fruit of the Spirit is love; joy, peace, etc.

joy and peace are outcroppings of the love of the Lord being shed abroad in the heart.

Again, see my boat analogy. What is inevitable - all things being what they should be - is not what is necessarily necessary. Just like there are all sorts of reasons why a boat isn't floating on water, as it was meant to do, there are all sorts of reasons why a genuinely born-again person isn't manifesting the love of God, as they ought to do. But just as we wouldn't say a boat in dry-dock isn't a boat, or an apple tree not bearing apples isn't an apple tree, we wouldn't say a Christian not displaying the love of God is not a Christian - or, at least, we shouldn't.

A boat that won't float is not a boat. It is an old, broken remnant of something that once was.

No. If you'd read and thought through my analogy about the boat and had considered it in light of the many instances in Scripture where genuine believers are not acting Christ-like, you'd have realized that what you're doing in your statement here is confusing inevitable with necessary. Doing so is the road to legalism. Beware.

Luk 10:25, And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26, He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27, And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28, And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Luk 10:29, But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
Luk 10:30, And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
Luk 10:31, And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:32, And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:33, But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
Luk 10:34, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
Luk 10:35, And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Luk 10:36, Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
Luk 10:37, And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

 

[Tenchi]

Yes, I will say that love is not in word only but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18).

However, the fruit of the Spirit is love; joy, peace, etc.

joy and peace are outcroppings of the love of the Lord being shed abroad in the heart.

The Fruit of the Spirit is the life of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9), filling the born-again believer and manifesting in their living more and more. The Fruit of the Spirit expresses the nature and character of God, the Holy Spirit, not mere "outcroppings" of feelings or emotions that any non-believer could feel.

I watched, for example, a news report of a Buddhist monk who'd settled himself quietly and passively in a roadway, doused himself with gasoline, and then lit himself on fire, giving not the slightest sign of fear, or even pain, as he burned to death. In the note of explanation he left behind, he stated that he'd killed himself in protest of the civil unrest and violence that had overtaken the province in India in which he lived. He hoped his sacrifice would halt the killing that had been going on. In particular, his note expressed a deep, resolute peace about his self-immolation: It was, he was certain, the right thing to do. I know of no believer, personally, who has ever operated with such extremely confident, settled peace in anything they've done in their walk with God.

I've seen godless athletes win events for which they've trained arduously for many years, tears of joy streaming down their faces, arms raised in victory, ecstatic about their achievement. Their joy was plain, and sincere, and well-earned but it had nothing at all to do with the Holy Spirit's presence within them.

I've observed high-level martial artists discipline themselves in the pursuit of their goals, for many decades sacrificing everything to develop martial skill, restricting their life so that they could train, enduring pain and exhaustion over and over to grow better at their chosen martial discipline. The self-control of these warriors puts to shame the "self-control" of most believers I've encountered, most of whom can't be bothered to memorize even a dozen verses of Scripture, or read the Bible for more than five minutes in a day and who certainly wouldn't give up binge-watching their favorite Netflix series, or golf date with their buddies, or video gaming session, in order to deepen their knowledge and experience of God.

It's a...strange thing to me, then, that Christians reduce the Fruit of the Spirit to feelings and actions any non-believer could - and many do - have without the Spirit. I think the Fruit of the Spirit is very different, unmistakably so, and must be if we are to confidently say, "This is the Fruit of the Spirit."

A boat that won't float is not a boat. It is an old, broken remnant of something that once was.

Yes, it is a boat. I've watched scuba divers exploring the ocean floor who've discovered a sunken ship and said, "There's a ship over there!" not, "There's the broken remnant of something that once was." And as they talked about their discovery, they constantly referred to it is "the ship" not "the broken thing," or "the former ship," or whatever. I also purposefully wrote of a boat on a trailer, sitting in a driveway in the suburbs somewhere, far from water, and definitely not floating, that everybody recognizes, nonetheless, as a boat. It won't float sitting on the trailer, far from water; but the boat is STILL a boat. So, too, the Christian who is truly born-again but not "floating" spiritually, as they should be.

Luk 10:25, And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26, He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27, And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28, And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Luk 10:29, But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
Luk 10:30, And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
Luk 10:31, And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:32, And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:33, But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
Luk 10:34, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
Luk 10:35, And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Luk 10:36, Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
Luk 10:37, And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

To whom was Jesus speaking, primarily, in this instance? Jews or Gentiles?

When was Jesus speaking these things? Before or after his atoning work on the cross?

By what means does Jesus say that his audience could "inherit eternal life"? By trust in him as their Savior and Lord? By receiving him as the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world"?

In the above passage, Jesus was speaking mainly to Jews within an OT context, his comments entirely absent of any hint of the New Covenant he would establish between all people and God through himself. Jesus says nothing about the Good News of salvation, becoming a "new creation" in himself, or the indwelling, spiritually-regenerating Holy Spirit. His words in the passage above, then, are NOT a prescription for you and I today, the way we can inherit eternal life, which we know is found ONLY in trusting in him as one's Saviour and Lord (John 1:12; John 3:3-7, 16, 36; John 14:6; John 10: 7-10; Acts 4:12; Romans 10:9-10; 1 Timothy 2:5). Jesus was speaking to Jews, reminding them of what they already knew, of the familiar OT route to peace with God:

Deuteronomy 11:13-17 (NASB)
13 "It shall come about, if you listen obediently to my commandments which I am commanding you today, to love the LORD your God and to serve Him with all your heart and all your soul,
14 that He will give the rain for your land in its season, the early and late rain, that you may gather in your grain and your new wine and your oil.
15 "He will give grass in your fields for your cattle, and you will eat and be satisfied.
16 "Beware that your hearts are not deceived, and that you do not turn away and serve other gods and worship them.
17 "Or the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you, and He will shut up the heavens so that there will be no rain and the ground will not yield its fruit; and you will perish quickly from the good land which the LORD is giving you.

God's word tells us very plainly that this is not how the lost sinner comes into relationship with God. Instead of the way Christ described in Luke 10:25-37 to Jews under the Old Covenant, we come to God through "a new and living way":

Hebrews 10:19-22 (NASB)
19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus,
20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,
21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

[RBDERRICK]

No.

Certainly sounds like it. Many Christians have demonized the law of God, in order to live by faith alone. Some actually say the law of God is killed with Jesus on the cross, and so is dead. And even go further to say only the ones keeping is law are sinning.

Jesus comes to deliver us from the power of the law to condemn sinning, by saving us from transgressing His law. He does not come to deliver people from keeping His law.

When Paul speaks of the law that we are not bound to keep, it is the law of Moses.

When He condemns keeping the law, he is speaking of the law alone without faith and purity of heart.

Doing the outer works of the law alone without faith in Jesus, is dead.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Righteousness by the law justifies no man with God, because only with faith can we please Him.

On the other hand, having faith alone without doing the law, is dead. Faith alone without works justifies no man with God, because all transgressors against His word are guilty before Him, whether we know His law or not.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

The law of Christ is neither dead nor the enemy of men's souls. Only by the faith of Jesus within can we possibly please God while keeping His law outwardly.

Those transgressing His word and commandment, simply prove we still lust with the world, and do not love Him from the heart.

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[RBDERRICK]

​

Hopeful.

I am starting this thread so as not to continue to derail the baptism thread where we began this discussion.

Salvation by grace through faith; not through works / law-keeping.​

No man is saved by keeping the law of God alone without faith, and no man is saved by faith alone without keeping the law of God.

Jesus does not come to deliver us from keeping His law, but from transgressing His law. He saves us from sinning, not from His law that condemns sinning.

Jesus entering our hearts by grace through His faith, delivers both them transgressing His law, and them keeping His law outwardly only. Both the unclean law keepers and law transgressors need salvation and justification by Jesus Christ.

Spiritual purity is the beginning work of Jesus' faith, whereby we have divine power to keep His law righteously.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

The only way to keep Christ's law righteously is through His purifying faith. Those not keeping His law are the unrighteous transgressors, whose claim to faith is hypocrisy.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, it is a boat. I've watched scuba divers exploring the ocean floor who've discovered a sunken ship and said, "There's a ship over there!" not, "There's the broken remnant of something that once was." And as they talked about their discovery, they constantly referred to it is "the ship" not "the broken thing," or "the former ship," or whatever. I also purposefully wrote of a boat on a trailer, sitting in a driveway in the suburbs somewhere, far from water, and definitely not floating, that everybody recognizes, nonetheless, as a boat. It won't float sitting on the trailer, far from water; but the boat is STILL a boat. So, too, the Christian who is truly born-again but not "floating" spiritually, as they should be.

If a boat won't float, it cannot fulfill its purpose and will sink if it is put in the water.

A Christian who sinks when he is put in the water is not sustaining his faith in Christ and will not continue to have spiritual life after he sinks; for he will drown in the water.

He may continue to be a Christian (a boat), but he will not be a living Christian (a floating boat).

Is a Christian who is not alive, saved? I think not!

By what means does Jesus say that his audience could "inherit eternal life"? By trust in him as their Savior and Lord? By receiving him as the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world"?

In the above passage, Jesus was speaking mainly to Jews within an OT context, his comments entirely absent of any hint of the New Covenant he would establish between all people and God through himself. Jesus says nothing about the Good News of salvation, becoming a "new creation" in himself, or the indwelling, spiritually-regenerating Holy Spirit. His words in the passage above, then, are NOT a prescription for you and I today, the way we can inherit eternal life, which we know is found ONLY in trusting in him as one's Saviour and Lord (John 1:12; John 3:3-7, 16, 36; John 14:6; John 10: 7-10; Acts 4:12; Romans 10:9-10; 1 Timothy 2:5). Jesus was speaking to Jews, reminding them of what they already knew, of the familiar OT route to peace with God:

Heb 1:1, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

2Jo 1:9, Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

The words of Christ are for the church today.

To say that they are words of the Old Testament, and therefore not applicable, is to nullify the doctrine of Christ and to prove that you have not God

Certainly sounds like it. Many Christians have demonized the law of God, in order to live by faith alone. Some actually say the law of God is killed with Jesus on the cross, and so is dead. And even go further to say only the ones keeping is law are sinning.

Jesus comes to deliver us from the power of the law to condemn sinning, by saving us from transgressing His law. He does not come to deliver people from keeping His law.

When Paul speaks of the law that we are not bound to keep, it is the law of Moses.

When He condemns keeping the law, he is speaking of the law alone without faith and purity of heart.

Doing the outer works of the law alone without faith in Jesus, is dead.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Righteousness by the law justifies no man with God, because only with faith can we please Him.

On the other hand, having faith alone without doing the law, is dead. Faith alone without works justifies no man with God, because all transgressors against His word are guilty before Him, whether we know His law or not.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

The law of Christ is neither dead nor the enemy of men's souls. Only by the faith of Jesus within can we possibly please God while keeping His law outwardly.

Those transgressing His word and commandment, simply prove we still lust with the world, and do not love Him from the heart.

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

As believers in Christ, we are forgiven of past, present, and future sins; and therefore our relationship to the law has changed.

We are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation.

While we are under the law to Christ as concerning obedience (1 Corinthians 9:21, Hebrews 8:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5, Romans 8:4).

It is not that in any way shape or form we keep the law in order to be saved or in order to maintain our salvation.

Scripture is clear that we are not saved by works, law-keeping, obedience, or personal merit (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-8, Titus 3:3-7, Romans 11:5-6, Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:10, Galatians 5:1-4).

But in being born again, we are regenerated and renewed on the inside (Titus 3:5).

Because of that regeneration and renewal, we are inclined towards doing good works (Titus 2:14).

So, if we do not have good works, it is a sign to man that we have not been regenerated or renewed.

But man looks on the outward appearance, and God looks on the heart (1 Samuel 16:7).

God sees a man's genuine faith even before he has done anything good to prove his genuine faith. He counted Abraham as righteous in Genesis 15:6, many years before he offered his son on the altar.

And also, if someone has a genuine faith, and yet never does anything good to prove it, if he dies, he will go straight to heaven.

No man is saved by keeping the law of God alone without faith, and no man is saved by faith alone without keeping the law of God.

See above.

 

[Tenchi]

If a boat won't float, it cannot fulfill its purpose and will sink if it is put in the water.

A Christian who sinks when he is put in the water is not sustaining his faith in Christ and will not continue to have spiritual life after he sinks; for he will drown in the water.

He may continue to be a Christian (a boat), but he will not be a living Christian (a floating boat).

Is a Christian who is not alive, saved? I think not!

You've entirely missed the point of the boat analogy.

Heb 1:1, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

2Jo 1:9, Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

The words of Christ are for the church today.

To say that they are words of the Old Testament, and therefore not applicable, is to nullify the doctrine of Christ and to prove that you have not God

This is a facile deflection of what I explained to you. Your response (or lack of one, really) ignores everything I pointed out, responding instead with a sort of mindless recitation of some personal creed you have about Scripture. The longer I've interacted with you, the more evident the superficiality of your views and handling of God's word have become. Very unfortunate. I had hoped there was more meat on the bones of your understanding of divine Truth.

 

[justbyfaith]

You've entirely missed the point of the boat analogy.



This is a facile deflection of what I explained to you. Your response (or lack of one, really) ignores everything I pointed out, responding instead with a sort of mindless recitation of some personal creed you have about Scripture. The longer I've interacted with you, the more evident the superficiality of your views and handling of God's word have become. Very unfortunate. I had hoped there was more meat on the bones of your understanding of divine Truth.

Praise God.

I know that, in a sense, I have judged you and that here, you have judged me in return.

However, I would say to you that my judgment is based in scripture and that your judgment does not have that same basis.

Clearly, if we abide in the doctrine of Christ, we have both the Father and the Son.

Since you reject the doctrine of Christ as being Old Testament doctrine and therefore invalid, I do not know what to say to you.

Except that you are going to have to face the judgment of holy scripture on this matter.

 

[Tenchi]

Praise God.

I know that, in a sense, I have judged you and that here, you have judged me in return.

I have judged only what you've written, your ideas and your reasoning. I don't know anything about you beyond what you've written in your posts.

However, I would say to you that my judgment is based in scripture and that your judgment does not have that same basis.

Well, of course you would say this about my views and judgment. You're wrong, obviously, but this is exactly what you would expect I would say. See? These sorts of remarks aren't very helpful, are they?

Clearly, if we abide in the doctrine of Christ, we have both the Father and the Son.

Since you reject the doctrine of Christ as being Old Testament doctrine and therefore invalid, I do not know what to say to you.

Strawman.

Except that you are going to have to face the judgment of holy scripture on this matter.

And empty threats. Kinda' scraping the bottom of the barrel, here...

 

[justbyfaith]

And empty threats. Kinda' scraping the bottom of the barrel, here...

Nope, I'm not threatening to do anything to you myself.

Just saying that the judgment of the Lord is real; and that if you do not abide in the doctrine of Christ, you don't have God (2 John 1:9).

Saying that the doctrine of Christ is Old Testament theology and therefore invalid will result in your not abiding in the doctrine of Christ.

That is the bottom line.

 

[eddif]

Romans 3:30 kjv
30. Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Has this been deeply discussed in this thread?


Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 3:30 kjv
30. Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Has this been deeply discussed in this thread?


Mississippi redneck
eddif

Rom 3:30, Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31, Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

It indicates that we establish the law even among those who are uncircumcised (the Gentiles).

 

[eddif]

Rom 3:30, Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31, Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

It indicates that we establish the law even among those who are uncircumcised (the Gentiles).

How is the law established in the gentiles?

Romans 2:14 kjv
14. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

A stony heart has the law of Moses engraved on it. The new heart of flesh contains the law written in it.

Somehow my redneck eyes of understanding are about as far as I can go right now. Perhaps later more will be revealed.

Reading the gentile inclusion in Acts 10:
Shows the circumcised Jews amazed at how the gentiles received the Holy Spirit just like they did.

The Jew and gentile are made into one new man. One through faith and the other by faith.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[justbyfaith]

How is the law established in the gentiles?

Romans 2:14 kjv
14. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

A stony heart has the law of Moses engraved on it. The new heart of flesh contains the law written in it.

Somehow my redneck eyes of understanding are about as far as I can go right now. Perhaps later more will be revealed.

Reading the gentile inclusion in Acts 10:
Shows the circumcised Jews amazed at how the gentiles received the Holy Spirit just like they did.

The Jew and gentile are made into one new man. One through faith and the other by faith.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

For believing Gentiles, the law is practically fulfilled in the following.

Gal 5:22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Fruit of the Spirit is the life of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9), filling the born-again believer and manifesting in their living more and more. The Fruit of the Spirit expresses the nature and character of God, the Holy Spirit, not mere "outcroppings" of feelings or emotions that any non-believer could feel.

I watched, for example, a news report of a Buddhist monk who'd settled himself quietly and passively in a roadway, doused himself with gasoline, and then lit himself on fire, giving not the slightest sign of fear, or even pain, as he burned to death. In the note of explanation he left behind, he stated that he'd killed himself in protest of the civil unrest and violence that had overtaken the province in India in which he lived. He hoped his sacrifice would halt the killing that had been going on. In particular, his note expressed a deep, resolute peace about his self-immolation: It was, he was certain, the right thing to do. I know of no believer, personally, who has ever operated with such extremely confident, settled peace in anything they've done in their walk with God.

I've seen godless athletes win events for which they've trained arduously for many years, tears of joy streaming down their faces, arms raised in victory, ecstatic about their achievement. Their joy was plain, and sincere, and well-earned but it had nothing at all to do with the Holy Spirit's presence within them.
observed high-level martial artists discipline themselves in the pursuit of their goals, for many decades sacrificing everything to develop martial skill, restricting their life so that they could train, enduring pain and exhaustion over and over to grow better at their chosen martial discipline. The self-control of these warriors puts to shame the "self-control" of most believers I've encountered, most of whom can't be bothered to memorize even a dozen verses of Scripture, or read the Bible for more than five minutes in a day and who certainly wouldn't give up binge-watching their favorite Netflix series, or golf date with their buddies, or video gaming session, in order to deepen their knowledge and experience of God.

There is a joy (that you may not have yet experienced) in knowing Jesus...

1Pe 1:8, Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Pe 1:9, Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

 

[justbyfaith]

A stony heart has the law of Moses engraved on it. The new heart of flesh contains the law written in it.

An heart of flesh has the law engraved on it.

Eze 36:25, Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Heb 8:8, For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

2Co 3:3, Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co 3:4, And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5, Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6, Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[eddif]

An heart of flesh has the law engraved on it.

Well let me see.
eddif said the stony heart has the law engraved on it and the heart of flesh has the law written in it.

Why would justbyfaith post a new statement, but link scripture that agrees with eddif?

There is a difference in stone and flesh.

Stone monuments are engraved.
Meat is stamped with ink that penetrates the flesh on the inside.

The new condition is living and life giving.

Ask questions if I need ti say it another way.

Mississippi redneck
eddif.

 

[donadams]

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Concerning the above scripture,

1) Jesus said it.

2) He said before stating His truth, Verily, verily, I say unto you.

3) The truth that He spoke. Whoever hears His word and believes on Him who sent Him shall not come into condemnation but is passed into everlasting life.

4) "shall not come into condemnation" = salvation
"everlasting life" = salvation

5) the only condition He gives, hear my word and believe on Him who sent me.

I will say concerning baptism, that if a person is baptized, it is conducive to faith, and that if a person is not baptized, it is conducive to unbelief (Luke 7:29-30).

So, being baptized in Jesus' Name (Acts 2:38-39) is important if you want to continue in the faith.

No he did not say believed, once in the past but believeth or believes see Jn 3:16 same believes imply’s a constant state of faith till death.

Do you believe that a man is saved the first moment he believed?

One tiny act of faith for one second is this enough to gain eternal salvation?

 

[justbyfaith]

No he did not say believed, once in the past but believeth or believes see Jn 3:16 same believes imply’s a constant state of faith till death.

Do you believe that a man is saved the first moment he believed?

One tiny act of faith for one second is this enough to gain eternal salvation?

It must be a genuine faith that obtains the seal of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30).

Not a shallow, lukewarm, or nominal faith; as is spoken of in Luke 8:13.

Yes, if the faith is genuine, we shall not come into condemnation, and have passed from death into everlasting life, from the moment of first faith (John 5:24).