Salvation with Security - Parts 1, 2, 3

[GodsGrace]

I don't adhere to the "occasional free will" premise. Nothing is accidental or random under Gods Divine Auspices.

Psalm 37:28
For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

No.
I wasn't clear.
We ALWAYS have free will.

On very rare occasions God steps in to accomplish His purpose.
The timing of this is something mysterious to me and that I'm not really willing to
discuss.

All I know is that God is outside of time and He knew everything from the beginning.

W

 

[smaller]

No.
I wasn't clear.
We ALWAYS have free will.

Only if we are led to lie to ourselves do we believe that. And I think that leading into that lie is by Gods Designs in any case because with any of us it's never about "just us" as individuals. We all have sin. Romans 7:17-20 and sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8.

God is never dealing with "just and only" individual freewill agents. Any casual glance at the 4 Gospels will find Jesus set in FULL ARRAY against the devil and his messengers who are IN MAN.

So your theory I might say is quite demonically inspired.

Mark 4:15 shows us how we are all put together. God is NOT just dealing with us, but also deals adversely with the other agent in the picture. This also makes freewill a demonic fantasy. But I think God allows and even intends that fantasy to run. So there you have it. Sovereign Intent.

 

[JLB]

Is man free? Heavens no. Not even close.

Man who is joined to Christ is free.

Man who is not joined to Christ is not free.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. Romans 6:5-7


JLB

 

[smaller]

Man who is joined to Christ is free.

I think that is an overly simplistic notion JLB. But a common one.

No man's flesh is free when it's contrary to and against the Spirit, which IS a scriptural fact also, Gal. 5:17. So let's not spread the free factor further than it belongs.

And let's actually try to be truthful and recognize that our own contrary/adverse/evil sinning thoughts are in fact an ABOMINATION and a continual AFFRONT to God:

Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

There is little use in trying to LIE to God. That only serves to drag us further into DEMONIC captivity.

 

[JLB]

I think that is an overly simplistic notion JLB. But a common one.

No man's flesh is free when it's contrary to and against the Spirit, which IS a scriptural fact also, Gal. 5:17. So let's not spread the free factor further than it belongs.

And let's actually try to be truthful and recognize that our own contrary/adverse/evil sinning thoughts are in fact an ABOMINATION and a continual AFFRONT to God:

Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

There is little use in trying to LIE to God. That only serves to drag us further into captivity.

The remedy to this is being filled with the Holy Spirit.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

The wicked one does not touch those that keep themselves... ie does not sin.


JLB

 

[JLB]

There is little use in trying to LIE to God. That only serves to drag us further into captivity.

There is little use in calling our God a liar.

Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. John 8:36

 

[smaller]

The remedy to this is being filled with the Holy Spirit.

Where the Spirit IS, there is TRUTH. The truth says and will always both say and see that our flesh is contrary to and against the Spirit just as the scripture says is so. Gal. 5:17. Even though that truth is unpleasant to my own sorry hide. I might even think lying about these facts of scripture puts us clearly out of truth and out of focus in a lie and into demonic captivity and blindness.

 

[smaller]

There is little use in calling our God a liar.

Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. John 8:36

And that is only you (I'll leave off further observations) refusing to submit to the reality of Gal. 5:17 and leaning entirely away from that scripture and even denying it.

So what else is new in the world of half truths?

 

[JLB]

Where the Spirit IS, there is TRUTH. The truth says and will always both say and see that our flesh is contrary to and against the Spirit just as the scripture says is so. Gal. 5:17. Even though that truth is unpleasant to my own sorry hide. I might even think lying about these facts of scripture puts us clearly out of truth and out of focus in a lie and into demonic captivity and blindness.

And that is only you (I'll leave off further observations) refusing to submit to the reality of Gal. 5:17 and leaning entirely away from that scripture and even denying it.

So what else is new in the world of half truths?

Here is what Galatians 5:17 says, which is half of the truth.

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Here is what you did not quote, and did not read, the preceding verse.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


Like I said, the remedy is the power of the Holy Spirit within us, giving us victory over the devil, over sin, over the desires of the flesh.

We can put to death the deeds of the flesh, or we can be a slave to the desires of the flesh.

If we walk after the spirit, and are led by the Spirit and are filled with the spirit, then we have victory over the flesh, and it's lustful desires.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:20-21


The Holy Spirit through Paul teaches us to become a vessel of honor, and to cleanse ourselves from being a vessel of dishonor.



JLB

 

[smaller]

Here is what Galatians 5:17 says, which is half of the truth.

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Here is what you did not quote, and did not read, the preceding verse.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

Galatians 5:17 is a reality of our flesh. There is no dodging it, ever, period.

To do so turns us into lying hypocrites, which is an even worse state of fleshly IMPOSITION.

It's also why salvation has to be secured and secure only in and by Christ, and NOT of ourselves, as we are very easily deceived. Case of observation in point.

No one remedies the reality of the flesh being against and contrary to the Spirit, ever.

 

[JLB]

Galatians 5:17 is a reality of our flesh. There is no dodging it, ever, period.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:16 is the reality of The Spirit, by which we put to death the deeds of the flesh, so the WE DO NOT fulfill the sinful desires of the flesh.


JLB

 

[smaller]

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Whatever makes you think you've rid the flesh of that reality is beyond me. That's exactly WHY it's contrary to and against the Spirit and will remain so.

 

[JLB]

No one remedies the reality of the flesh being against and contrary to the Spirit, ever.

People who by the Spirit put to death the deeds of the flesh, do not fulfill the flesh's lustful desires.

We are called to be a slave of righteousness, not a slave of sin, because we have been freed from the dominion sin has over us.

Those who obey sin, will reap the fruit of a life spent sinning, which is eternal damnation in the fires of hell.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23


Those who practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21


Those who by the Spirit, put to death the deeds of the flesh, and exercise dominion over sin, are those who walk after the spirit, and produce the righteous fruit of the Spirit.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-25


...those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Whatever makes you think you've rid the flesh of that reality is beyond me. That's exactly WHY it's contrary to and against the Spirit and will remain so.

Those who practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:21



JLB

 

[smaller]

Those who practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:21
JLB

And those who say that Gal. 5:17 is not true are lying. Oops! No liar gets into heaven.

 

[Eugene]

.
Would this be of help to anyone in understanding 1 Jn 5:18 ?

We know that whosoever is born of God (This is us) sinneth not (Is this actually possible- if so, why the provision in 1 Jn 1:9?); but He (Jesus?) that is begotten of God (1 Jn 4:9) keepeth himself (Us, His body- the Church, Eph 5:30), and that wicked one toucheth him not. In other words, Who does the keeping?

 

[JLB]

And those who say that Gal. 5:17 is not true are lying. Oops! No liar gets into heaven.

The truth of Galatians 5:17 teaches is: the flesh, with it's lustful desires, is contrary to the Spirit, whose desire is righteousness.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

The truth verse 16 teaches is: if you walk in the Spirit, you will not fulfill, which is to say, you will not do what the flesh desires to do.

The truth verse 21 teaches is: if you practice doing what the flesh wants to do, then you will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Galatians 5:16-25


The truth verse 24 teaches is: those who are Christ's, have crucified the flesh, with it's passion's and desires.


Do you practice the works of the flesh, adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like;

If you are practicing these things, I would encourage you to cease from doing these things, and if you can't, then seek to be Baptized in the Holy Spirit by finding a Church that teaches and practices this, and the victory over sin, the flesh, and Satan, and learn and be counseled by such as these.

God bless you as you, find victory.


JLB

 

[JLB]

.
Would this be of help to anyone in understanding 1 Jn 5:18 ?

We know that whosoever is born of God (This is us) sinneth not (Is this actually possible- if so, why the provision in 1 Jn 1:9?); but He (Jesus?) that is begotten of God (1 Jn 4:9) keepeth himself (Us, His body- the Church, Eph 5:30), and that wicked one toucheth him not. In other words, Who does the keeping?

Who does the keeping?

The person who is filled with the Spirit, and by the Spirit, puts to death the deeds of the flesh.

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13


JLB

 

[smaller]

The truth verse 24 teaches is: those who are Christ's, have crucified the flesh, with it's passion's and desires.

That accounts the flesh for what it is. What that does NOT mean is that the flesh is actually dead or that the flesh has no lusts because that posture is NOT true to scriptures.

Gal. 5:17 is the truthful measure of the flesh in it's current state, regardless. It is contrary to and against the Spirit, just as Paul says it is. Were it really dead it would not be against the Spirit, it would be really dead. It would have no active state of contrariness or "lusts" against the Spirit.

So again, there is simply no dodging this matter "truthfully."

And this is exactly why salvation has to be SECURE apart from the individual performances because no performances can change the contrary status to the Spirit, of the flesh.

Those who think this is not the case have fallen headlong into a much larger problem, and that is lying hypocrisy and failure to be honest about this openly obvious matter.

Far from what I'd term any kind of victory in Jesus. Just another common liar.

 

[smaller]

.
Would this be of help to anyone in understanding 1 Jn 5:18 ?

We know that whosoever is born of God (This is us) sinneth not (Is this actually possible- if so, why the provision in 1 Jn 1:9?); but He (Jesus?) that is begotten of God (1 Jn 4:9) keepeth himself (Us, His body- the Church, Eph 5:30), and that wicked one toucheth him not. In other words, Who does the keeping?

I think we are all quite familiar saying that people who claim to be sinless are actually involved in various forms of heresy.

There is only one way to understand what John is saying in that matter and that is when we see our own sin is in fact quite demonic just as John points out in 1 John 3:8, i.e. sin is not "sourced" in or by us as Gods children but is directly linked to Satan/devils activities in the, yes, OUR flesh. But to say we are sinless is in fact a blatant heresy. Paul made the exact opposite conclusion about himself in 1 Tim. 1:15.

If there is one thing I personally can NOT tolerate about false christianity are the claims that christians are not sinners or that we have sinless flesh or that when we supposedly crucify the flesh it is no longer subject to lusts or evil present etc etc. All of that is just a bald faced LIE. People who make these kinds of claims are deeper pawns of the chief of liars. John 8:44.

And surprisingly there are quite a few of such "in the churches." That is the only place we'll find this particular LIE.