Salvation with Security - Parts 1, 2, 3

[JLB]

That accounts the flesh for what it is. What that does NOT mean is that the flesh is actually dead or that the flesh has no lusts because that posture is NOT true to scriptures.

The flesh does indeed have sinful desires that are opposed to the desires of the Spirit.

Gal. 5:17 is the truthful measure of the flesh in it's current state, regardless. It is contrary to and against the Spirit, just as Paul says it is. Were it really dead it would not be against the Spirit, it would be really dead. It would have no active state of contrariness or "lusts" against the Spirit.

The best way to glean the truth from the scriptures, is to write out the scripture plainly, and refer to the actual language of the scripture.

Constantly stating your opinion, which doesn't refer to the language of the scripture, and only posting a reference or scripture chapter and verse "tag", makes it seem as if you what you are saying is different that what the actual language of the scriptures says.

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17

What I see here:

• The flesh, with it's sinful desires is contrary, opposed, and in opposition to the desires of the Spirit.
• Those who live as a slave to the flesh, are obligated to obey it's lustful desires, even if they don't want to, because the sin embedded in the flesh, and expressing itself through the sinful deeds of the flesh, has become this persons master.

What Paul stated in the previous verse 16:

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Paul tells us plainly that we don't have to be under the dominion of sin, expressing itself through our flesh, to fulfill and do what sin wants to do, but we can walk in the Spirit, and do the things that the Spirit, by which we express the Spirit's fruit of righteousness, as Paul described for us as: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control... Self control which means we have the power to resist fulfilling the deeds of the flesh.

Paul ends with saying that those who are Christ's, have crucified the flesh.

Please read the language: have crucified the flesh. This means the flesh is powerless to control and enslave us to do it's will, to obey it's lust's and desires.


JLB

 

[smaller]

The flesh does indeed have sinful desires that are opposed to the desires of the Spirit.

Yeah, well, I quit making excuses or coverups for that reality several decades back. And largely courtesy of the sickening lying hypocrisy dressed in fancy robes trumpeting behind so called christian pulpits. So, I thank the lying hypocrite utterly phony so called christian teachers for exposing themselves openly enough for me to question my own sorry hide in these matters.

John 8:44

 

[JLB]

Yeah, well, I quit making excuses or coverups for that reality several decades back. And larger courtesy of the sickening lying hypocrisy dressed in fancy robes trumpeting behind pulpits. So, I thank the lying hypocrite utterly phony so called christian teachers for exposing themselves openly enough for me to question my own sorry hide in these matters.

John 8:44

Please address what the scriptures say, and stop calling names and making excuses for sin having dominion over you.

Attacking me is not going to help you gain the victory, of crucifying the flesh with it's desires.


JLB

 

[smaller]

Please address what the scriptures say, and stop calling names and making excuses for sin having dominion over you.

You should know well enough I don't accept your spin as my statements.

What I will not participate in is saying the flesh of any person other than Christ Himself is sinless or that sin is not demonic. There is no DOMINION over sin when we lie about having sinful flesh, evil present or that sin is demonic. All of those postures are just common lies and that's all there is to it.

Yet for most, acknowledging any of these matters truthfully automatically STICKS in the fleshly craws every time, donut?

I'll follow Jesus ala ( Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23), Paul and John and their own statements. I do evil. Romans 7:19 I do things I hate. Romans 7:15 I have evil present with me. Romans 7:21. My sin is in fact of the devil, 1 John 3:8 and as such I have a messenger of Satan in my own flesh 2 Cor. 12:7 and as such my flesh is contrary to and against the Spirit, Gal. 5:17. To say otherwise puts me out of TRUTH (1 John 1:8) and makes me a lying hypocrite. There is no dominion over sin in that kind of mud, of lying hypocrisy, the very things that Jesus HATED the most.

All of these "confessions" put me quite solidly IN TRUTH. I don't expect many to follow these APOSTLES and our Lord into these facts however because we do have an adversary that does not allow these facts to come forth and will instead cause believers to LIE about same.

Imagine that?

Attacking me is not going to help you gain the victory, of crucifying the flesh with it's desires.
JLB

I don't attack you whatsoever. I think you as a child of God are saved. But that isn't the whole story is it?

 

[JLB]

You should know well enough I don't accept your spin as my statements.

The best way to glean the truth from the scriptures, is to write out the scripture plainly, and refer to the actual language of the scripture.

Constantly stating your opinion, which doesn't refer to the language of the scripture, and only posting a reference or scripture chapter and verse "tag", makes it seem as if you what you are saying is different that what the actual language of the scriptures says.

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17

Here is the language of the verse you quoted:

• The flesh, with it's sinful desires is contrary, opposed, and in opposition to the desires of the Spirit.
• Those who live as a slave to the flesh, are obligated to obey it's lustful desires, even if they don't want to, because the sin embedded in the flesh, and expressing itself through the sinful deeds of the flesh, has become this persons master.

What I will not participate in is saying the flesh of any person other than Christ Himself is sinless or that sin is not demonic. There is no DOMINION over sin when we lie about having sinful flesh, evil present or that sin is demonic. All of those postures are just common lies and that's all there is to it.

I have never heard of any person say such a thing as a person's flesh is sinless.

What the scripture says word for word:

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
Romans 8:12

• We as Christians who are filled with the spirit, do not have to submit to the sinful desires of the flesh.

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13

• We have the power by the Holy Spirit, to put to death the deeds of the flesh.

We as Christians who are filled with the Holy Spirit, are to: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:16

• We as Christians are called to crucify the flesh, with it's lust's and desires.

And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24

• Crucified the flesh...
• Put to death the deeds of the flesh...

These are real commands that are to be obeyed, in order to have victory.

You have disregarded, and ignored, as well as refused to address the truth of these scriptures, insisting instead that:

There is no DOMINION over sin

I'll follow Jesus ala ( Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23), Paul and John and their own statements. I do evil. Romans 7:19 I do things I hate. Romans 7:15 I have evil present with me. Romans 7:21. My sin is in fact of the devil, 1 John 3:8 and as such I have a messenger of Satan in my own flesh 2 Cor. 12:7 and as such my flesh is contrary to and against the Spirit, Gal. 5:17. To say otherwise puts me out of TRUTH (1 John 1:8) and makes me a lying hypocrite. There is no dominion over sin in that kind of mud, of lying hypocrisy, the very things that Jesus HATED the most.

You will have to write out the scripture, and let's examine the language of the scriptures and the point you are trying to make.

Saying derogatory things, and tagging it with a scripture reference makes no sense.

If you choose to confess and believe you are a lying hypocrite then that is on you.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21



JLB

 

[smaller]

The best way to glean the truth from the scriptures, is to write out the scripture plainly, and refer to the actual language of the scripture.

Constantly stating your opinion, which doesn't refer to the language of the scripture, and only posting a reference or scripture chapter and verse "tag", makes it seem as if you what you are saying is different that what the actual language of the scriptures says.

I know your positions far better than you JLB. Held them for years. Could even make much better cases for your positions.

Eventually though I had to confront the facts of my own contrariness, why it existed, why I could NOT make it any different and thusly WHY I have our Savior who actually SAVES and does such beyond "my works or merits."

Divine Sovereignty can't be taught. It has to be learned, often the hard way. Tossing our phony hypocritical lying performances down the gutter where they belong.

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17

Here is the language of the verse you quoted:

• The flesh, with it's sinful desires is contrary, opposed, and in opposition to the desires of the Spirit.
• Those who live as a slave to the flesh, are obligated to obey it's lustful desires, even if they don't want to, because the sin embedded in the flesh, and expressing itself through the sinful deeds of the flesh, has become this persons master.

Uh, no your dissection is NOT what that scripture speaks to whatsoever.

The flesh is and remains contrary to the Spirit and against the Spirit. There is no change of status as you quite falsely presume to impose by re-write.

I have never heard of any person say such a thing as a person's flesh is sinless.

Then perhaps you'd understand the futility of claiming otherwise? There are no amounts of religious performances that are going to change the status of the flesh. Zero. It just ain't going to happen. The flesh is and remains factually contrary to and against the Spirit. And that is exactly what Gal. 5:17 (and many other scriptures) present and that is also why "works" salvation is utter hogwash.

 

[JLB]

The flesh is and remains contrary to the Spirit and against the Spirit. There is no change of status as you quite falsely presume to impose by re-write.

That's just it smaller, I have said plainly over and over that the flesh is indeed contrary to the Spirit.

You don't seem to understand what the point of contention is.

We don't have to obey the sinful desires of the flesh, rather we are called to walk in the Spirit, so that we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

If Galatians 5:17 were the only verse in the bible, then you may have a point, but since Paul says...I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh... then we have no excuse.

So, if you choose to ignore this truth, and instead practice the works of the flesh, then you yourself will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

You can make excuses and blames other preachers, and attack me with derogatory statements, but in the end, those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God, will not change.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-25

...those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.


JLB

 

[smaller]

That's just it smaller, I have said plainly over and over that the flesh is indeed contrary to the Spirit.

Brilliant conclusion.

You don't seem to understand what the point of contention is.

The point is always you claiming a remedy (read-excuses) for the flesh for which no remedy exists. No fine matter of the Spirit is given or granted to the flesh, period, because it's contrary to and against the Spirit.

That is a point you never seem to grasp. And instead works camps everywhere still work to save the unsaveable and justify the unjustifiable.

 

[JLB]

Brilliant conclusion.



The point is always you claiming a remedy (read-excuses) for the flesh for which no remedy exists. No fine matter of the Spirit is given or granted to the flesh, period, because it's contrary to and against the Spirit.

That is a point you never seem to grasp. And instead works camps everywhere still work to save the unsaveable and justify the unjustifiable.

Do you believe this scripture?


Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:16

You shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

You will not do what the flesh desires to do.

Do you believe what this says?


JLB

 

[Eugene]

Would this be of help to anyone in understanding 1 Jn 5:18 ?
We know that whosoever is born of God (This is us) sinneth not (Is this actually possible- if so, why the provision in 1 Jn 1:9?); but He (Jesus?) that is begotten of God (1 Jn 4:9) keepeth himself (Us, His body- the Church, Eph 5:30), and that wicked one toucheth him not. In other words, Who does the keeping?

I think we are all quite familiar saying that people who claim to be sinless are actually involved in various forms of heresy.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.

 

[JLB]

e is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


JLB

 

[Eugene]

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Brother JLB, the following note printed in my KJV by Scofield says: "Rom 8:1 The statement ends with "Christ Jesus." The last ten words were evidently copied from v4 (Rom 8:4) where they properly express the result of "no condemnation," not its cause."

Other Bible translations read as follows.
New International Version
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
New Living Translation
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.
English Standard Version
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Berean Study Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Berean Literal Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.
New American Standard Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Commentary
Matthew Henry Commentary Mt 8:1-9 Believers may be chastened of the Lord, but will not be condemned with the world . . .

 

[JLB]

Brother JLB, the following note printed in my KJV by Scofield says: "Rom 8:1 The statement ends with "Christ Jesus." The last ten words were evidently copied from v4 (Rom 8:4) where they properly express the result of "no condemnation," not its cause."

Other Bible translations read as follows.
New International Version
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
New Living Translation
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.
English Standard Version
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Berean Study Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Berean Literal Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.
New American Standard Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Commentary
Matthew Henry Commentary Mt 8:1-9 Believers may be chastened of the Lord, but will not be condemned with the world . . .

Scofield again?

I keep hearing that name, and it's not associated with anything good.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:1 KJV

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1 NKJV

There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;
Romans 8:1 YLT


It's real simple if you read the context.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:1-13


It would be hard to ignore this statement made by this same Paul, about those who walk after the flesh, and practice the works of the flesh.


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


You can quote Scofield, and Matthew Henry, or all the commentaries you like, but it won't change these words...


...those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.



JLB

 

[Eugene]

Scofield again?

I keep hearing that name, and it's not associated with anything good.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:1 KJV

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1 NKJV

There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;
Romans 8:1 YLT


It's real simple if you read the context.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:1-13


It would be hard to ignore this statement made by this same Paul, about those who walk after the flesh, and practice the works of the flesh.


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


You can quote Scofield, and Matthew Henry, or all the commentaries you like, but it won't change these words...


...those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


JLB

I reckon that we'll just have to disagree then. Thanks.

 

[smaller]

Do you believe this scripture?
Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:16
You shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
You will not do what the flesh desires to do.
Do you believe what this says?

It's 100% belief that the flesh has lusts and that those lusts regardless of "fulfillment" are contrary to the Spirit and against the Spirit.

That's why Gal. 5:17 is written and it's 100% true regardless of "fulfillment."

 

[smaller]

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.

Who can disagree with the scriptures?

If we observe the condition of Paul we should be able to see one party who can not be condemned for any reason and another entirely different party that can not be condoned for any reason. And that's exactly why this is difficult territory to discuss because the other party actively resists the things of God in Christ that are of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

In the above there is Paul and there is the "no longer I," openly revealed. The messenger of Satan in Paul's own flesh can not be condoned for any reasons and Paul can likewise but conversely not be condemned for any reasons.

 

[JLB]

It's 100% belief that the flesh has lusts and that those lusts regardless of "fulfillment" are contrary to the Spirit and against the Spirit.

Why do you keep repeating this.

There is no argument that the flesh is contrary to the Spirit, which is why we are warned not to practice the works of the flesh, but rather, to walk in the Spirit SO THAT, we will not do what the flesh wants to do.

If we do what the flesh wants to do, and practice doing what the flesh wants to do, then we will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

...those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

That's why Gal. 5:17 is written and it's 100% true regardless of "fulfillment."

The only way Galatians 5:17 is fulfilled is by doing it. Walking in the Spirit.

Doing the things that the Spirit of God inside [if indeed you have the Spirit within you] you leads and guides, as well as empowers you to do.


We are to crucify the flesh... by the Spirit we are to put to death the deeds of the flesh.

...those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:5


We as Christians are called to set our minds on the things of the Spirit; to think on that which is holy and lovely and of good report.

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things. Philippians 4:8



JLB

 

[Mike]

I'm tempted to shut down this thread, gut all the personal comments, and let it sit for a while, but I know you guys can do better. Please resist the impulse to respond out of emotion. Speak to the person's interpretation; not the person. Control your emotions. No one here ignores scripture. No one here rejects what His Word says. It is slanderous to imply or openly state that they do.

 

[JLB]

The messenger of Satan in Paul's own flesh can not be condoned for any reasons and Paul can likewise but conversely not be condemned for any reasons.

There was never any messenger of Satan in Paul's flesh.

The "thorn in his flesh" [which is a metaphor] which was a source of frustration, were false Apostles, who were called ministers of Satan, were teaching the Churches that he raised up that they were required to keep the law of Moses, and become circumcised, in order to be saved.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Paul walked in the Spirit, and taught his people to walk in the Spirit.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

Sin is what is in our flesh, which is why we are told to walk in the Spirit, so that we will not fulfill, which is to say, do or practice the works of the flesh.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I reckon that we'll just have to disagree then. Thanks.

Ok.


JLB