Same Sex Relationships

[GraceBwithU]

Yes I am an evolutionist. However, scientists and human behaviour scientists have now concluded that homosexual love is quite natural. In fact it is found in all living animal species.

Hi Ted,
If you are talking about evolution as to say men came from apes or that any species evolved into another species you are very misguided. If this type of evolution was a reality, scientist would have no problem finding the so called "missing link" because there would be thousand of them for each species not just one. It hasn't been found because it doesn't exist!

Scientist may think homosexual love is quite natural, but God doesn't agree.

Ro 1:26-27
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
KJV

The word of God speaks plainly to those with ears to hear.

Sleep sound in Jesus
GraceBwithU

 

[turnorburn]

:robot: Evolutionist? if you were a Christian I would strongly recommend this..

I Corinthians

Chapter 5

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

In His Service,
turnorburn

 

[unred typo]

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Good reminder. Notice that some of these sins are pretty accepted in the church and don’t even come into conversations among the brothers. Funny how we can stir up some real disgust when it is someone else’s sin, and not our own weakness. I would even venture to guess that some here who find homosexuality to be despicable, would excuse his own adulterous affair with his neighbor’s wife. If I’m not mistaken, fornication includes all types of sexual sins, not specifically homosexual relationships.

I also believe that the ‘putting away from among the brothers’ here is so that the church doesn’t bring the name of Christ into disgrace among unbelievers, and to allow the guilty member to be physically punished by Satan until he repents. There’s just something about a mortal illness that will help one to get his life in order.

 

[turnorburn]

A lot of folks turn up their nose and get that all too famous look when they say, gee whiz honey aren't you glad were not like the others :

In His Service,
turnorburn

 

[cia11]

How old is the Bible? 2000 years for the youngest part, yes? Back then life was very different, as is obvious. Women and babies died so often in childbirth that having children was about as risky as today's extreme sports. Children frequently died in their first year and so on.

Could there really be anything more detrimental to the continuation of the human race back then than men refusing to have sex with women? Obviously homosexuality was a bad thing back then, in exactly the same way as masturbation which is why the bible doesn't like either. But nowadays we don't have this problem - we are having MORE children than we need, if we look at the rising population, the number of abortions carried out and the amount of adopted children in the world.

So surely now our technological advances have wiped out the problem of infant mortality in many countries, we can leave men and women alone to love whoever they fall in love with? If marriage was still used solely for the production of children, we would be living in a much more crowded, unhappy world.

 

[Vic C.]

So surely now our technological advances have wiped out the problem of infant mortality in many countries, we can leave men and women alone to love whoever they fall in love with? If marriage was still used solely for the production of children, we would be living in a much more crowded, unhappy world.

Science and technology may change but morality doesn't. Regardless of what human secular reasoning has to say about it, morality isn't relative; it's absolute.

Forgive me but what you're suggesting eliminates one alleged problem while condoning and spreading a host host of physical and moral diseases. Oh yeah... people still do get married with the intention of raising a family. That hasn't changed either. What has changed though, is the percentage of marriages that lead to infidelity and divorce, both abhorred by God.

 

[turnorburn]

I try to get my recipes from the bible, not Dear Abby or Erma Brombect, or from new translations
that have thrown the Deity of Christ right out the window. The Scripture says God doesn't change,
and again Jesus Christ the same today yesterday and forever.

In His Service,
turnorburn

 

[Jaide Sokoloff]

I think it is far more important to love your neighbor (yes, the gay ones too) and not judge. In my opinion, this is something between a person and G-d. We have enough to worry about for ourselves without judging someone else's romantic interests.

I do have a question though. I always wondered why the Christian belief is against same sex relationships when they don't follow other laws like dietary laws, etc. My fiance (a Christian and the reason I'm here, to learn more about the faith) says that after the savior came then all those laws weren't necessary for Christians. Can someone please tell me where same sex relationships fit into that equation?

 

[TyCowboy]

Jaide,

We can (in fact, we are called to) love everyone...even those who despise us...but not to let that love for them cloud our judgment nor God's will as set forth in the Bible. More to the point, righteous judgment is absolutely supported by the Bible, and encouraged. I'm not suggesting that we hold "burn the homosexuals" rallys, I'm suggesting that we love the person in front of us, find common ground, build relationships, foster communication, but NEVER to permit ourselves to accept actions which are clearly defined as sin in the Bible as acceptable. We are told to flee from sin (all sin), to avoid being involved in it.

As Christians, we are not perfect, but we have a perfect Sacrifice in the form of Jesus, who acts as a barrier if you will between our unrighteous actions and the righteous God whom we worship. What we are saying to the unrepentant homosexual is the same that we say to the unrepentant comissioner of any sin...(to paraphrase Paul) everybody has sinned, and the cost of our sin is death. enter Jesus.

To answer your question, Peter's vision (found in Acts 10) is essentially two-fold in nature...the first lesson that was intended was that Peter's prejudice against the Gentile receiving the Word/Good News was just that...prejudice...and that he should be sharing the Message with everyone to whom the Holy Spirit led him to speak. The second lesson (and it's up for debate in many circles) is that we should not call anything unclean which God has made clean.

In Romans 14, Paul holds a discource which introduces the idea that for harmony's sake, that arguments about who eats what and how this is unclean or a disgrace to God should be settled by the taking of the side of the person whose sensibilities are offended so that we do not drive them away from the Word. The word was spread to many people, including gentiles and other "unclean" people who were not under the Law. Since the rules of eating came from the Law, from which I derive no salvation, it is very difficult for me to see abiding by any strict eating guidelines unless my meal somehow offends someone I am with.

At least that's my take on both the comment and your question. (assuming that it wasn't rhetorical)

Ty

 

[turnorburn]

I think it is far more important to love your neighbor (yes, the gay ones too) and not judge. In my opinion, this is something between a person and G-d. We have enough to worry about for ourselves without judging someone else's romantic interests.

I do have a question though. I always wondered why the Christian belief is against same sex relationships when they don't follow other laws like dietary laws, etc. My fiance (a Christian and the reason I'm here, to learn more about the faith) says that after the savior came then all those laws weren't necessary for Christians. Can someone please tell me where same sex relationships fit into that equation?

:-D But first answer me this, do "you" think its the norm, do you feel that the one that created man and woman to be joined together in marriage would approve ;-)

 

[cia11]

Science and technology may change but morality doesn't. Regardless of what human secular reasoning has to say about it, morality isn't relative; it's absolute.

Forgive me but what you're suggesting eliminates one alleged problem while condoning and spreading a host host of physical and moral diseases. Oh yeah... people still do get married with the intention of raising a family. That hasn't changed either. What has changed though, is the percentage of marriages that lead to infidelity and divorce, both abhorred by God.

What I'm saying is this: Because back then people HAD to have children, marriage was not allowed between men and men, women and women. Because sex outside marriage was a sin - homosexual sex was therefore necessarily sinful. The bible doesn't actually mention gay relationships, only gay sex which in those times would have been a sordid, cheating on one's wife with lots of men sort of activity. Doesn't this mean that the Bible simply has a problem with promiscuity? Homosexual relationships wouldn't have existed back then, not in the loving romantic sense, so how could the Bible have had a problem with it?

Are you suggesting that gay people are morally deficient? This is something I have always been really curious about. Could you tell me why? It's never been explained to me.

BTW: I know people still get married with the intention of having children lol, I don't live in a box. All I was saying was that not all people do anymore.

 

[Vic C.]

We should not think for one moment we are wiser than our Creator. History has shown just the opposite. We also should not confuse dietary and ceremonial laws with God's Laws concerning moral conduct. Think about the reasons for the dietary laws in the OT. Also, if you understand Messianic Prophesy, you'd understand the need for many of the ceremonial laws in the OT too.

These Moral Laws (basically the 10 commandments) are everlasting. Homosexuality is just as wrong as murder and murder just as wrong as adultery, which is just as wrong as stealing and coveting and so on... Condoning any of those here and rest assured we will condemn those acts as well.

What Paul faced in his time and wrote about in the first chapter of Romans is just as applicable now as it was then. Also, since God's moral laws don't change, the reason he created a union between man and woman and the act of intimacy still applies today. Man just doesn't have the right or foresight to change God's moral standards.

One more thing; I am not suggesting homosexuals are morally deficient; what I AM realizing is that mankind in general leans toward moral deficiency. We need God and His morals more then HE needs us. Actually, HE exists independent of HIS Creation.

 

[turnorburn]

In the world there is a saying, "you can't fight city hall" :wink:

 

[cia11]

How can you compare murder with homosexuality? Murder is devastating, it ruins lives, wastes lives and tears people apart emotionally. Homosexuality on the other hand does none of these things. A good realtionship, whether gay or straight is loving, provides security, happiness and friendship.

To compare two relationships in my life- my parents and a couple who are friends of them. My parents have been together for 20 years. They love each other and they are happy. Their friends (two men) have also been together 20 years and their realtionship is equally as loving and wonderful as my parents. What right does anyone have to say that their realtionship is as immoral as murder?

Surely life in the first centuary is completely different from life today. For one thing, women aren't treated as second class citizens anymore, we don't have slaves, we know so much more about the world and about human anatomy. Our society and civilisation is totally different and it cannot be denied that sometimes the bible is outdated. What about stoning people to death? Is blasphemy still punishable by death?

 

[turnorburn]

How can you deem anything the Lord sees as an abomination anything other than what he said, He said I am the Lord thy God I change not. If you wish to challenge him on his merit then I suggest you go to the book of Job a book that has more questions and answers than any other book in the bible. And please explain to me if you can how is Sodomy any better than murder, destroying the minds of those involved, and those around them. A child brought up to believe his mother is Steve? Don't go there, our Lord and savior has suffered enough already..

In His Service,
turnorburn

How can you compare murder with homosexuality? Murder is devastating, it ruins lives, wastes lives and tears people apart emotionally. Homosexuality on the other hand does none of these things. A good realtionship, whether gay or straight is loving, provides security, happiness and friendship.

To compare two relationships in my life- my parents and a couple who are friends of them. My parents have been together for 20 years. They love each other and they are happy. Their friends (two men) have also been together 20 years and their realtionship is equally as loving and wonderful as my parents. What right does anyone have to say that their realtionship is as immoral as murder?

Surely life in the first centuary is completely different from life today. For one thing, women aren't treated as second class citizens anymore, we don't have slaves, we know so much more about the world and about human anatomy. Our society and civilisation is totally different and it cannot be denied that sometimes the bible is outdated. What about stoning people to death? Is blasphemy still punishable by death?

 

[TyCowboy]

I can compare any sin with another because according to God's word, their outcome (spiritually, anyhow) is the same. The righteous God can not have sin in His presence...not ANY sin. So the wages of ALL sin is death. So all sin is the same in the eyes of God.

Ty.

 

[cia11]

Well I suppose I should perhaps point out that I am an athiest so really what God thinks doesn't worry me. However what does concern me greatly is doing harm to other people - objectively, no one with any experience of homosexuality (I don't mean being gay, I mean knowing people who are gay) can claim that it harms ANYONE. What harm can a loving relationship possibly do to anyone?

And please explain to me if you can how is Sodomy any better than murder, destroying the minds of those involved, and those around them. A child brought up to believe his mother is Steve?

What destroying of minds is this? Are you referring to mental illness? This appears to me to be rather ignorant, and I wonder if you have ever even met anyone who is homosexual, let alone a homosexual parent. Perhaps you should withold judgement until you actually understand what we are discussing a little more.

I think that my arguments on this subject will not have any effect, as my lack of belief in the Bible means that I see it as a book, written by normal people 2000 years ago - you, of course see it as the word of God and therefore not to be challenged.

 

[turnorburn]

Well I suppose I should perhaps point out that I am an athiest so really what God thinks doesn't worry me. However what does concern me greatly is doing harm to other people - objectively, no one with any experience of homosexuality (I don't mean being gay, I mean knowing people who are gay) can claim that it harms ANYONE. What harm can a loving relationship possibly do to anyone?

And please explain to me if you can how is Sodomy any better than murder, destroying the minds of those involved, and those around them. A child brought up to believe his mother is Steve?

What destroying of minds is this? Are you referring to mental illness? This appears to me to be rather ignorant, and I wonder if you have ever even met anyone who is homosexual, let alone a homosexual parent. Perhaps you should withold judgement until you actually understand what we are discussing a little more.

I think that my arguments on this subject will not have any effect, as my lack of belief in the Bible means that I see it as a book, written by normal people 2000 years ago - you, of course see it as the word of God and therefore not to be challenged.

Atheist? well then that explains it your still in

 

[cia11]

Atheist? well then that explains it your still in Image

Sorry, you'll have to explain to me what that smilie means lol

 

[turnorburn]

In laymans terms, you haven't been set

free yet