SatanBound

[reba]

N2thelight

The link you just posted just about center page is Watchword bible
MY mistake!
I will check out the link more completely. Your post has been UNdeleted for now...

 

[Lehigh3]

Is satan alive or dead?Does evil still exist?The answer to 1 is alive,the answer to 2 is yes.

My point,had Christ returned,there would be no more of either...

2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Are people still crying,are people still dying?According to the Word,it shouldn't be still happening....


Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The above verse is the bottom line,period......................................

Well, I disagree. Satan is not alive in the flesh or in spirit. But, he represents "evil" & his influence will continue to have an affect on those who are in darkness- AND those who believe in his being alive & having real power over their flesh (aka-soul bondages)

The "no more tears" in Rev.21 is directed mainly at Israel & the fact that the saved (Messianic Jews-12 tribes) would have no more tears, as they would live in safety in the New Jerusalem. The rod of God's chastisement was removed & God had once more shook the heavens & earth - & only the faithful remained.
It does not mean that the church or kingdom would be immune from tears, death, crying, pain & sorrow for all times or never experience persecution again.
Those are merely figures of speech describing the removal of the sorrows associated with the persecutions attending the end of the Mosaic age in AD70.

My point,had Christ returned,there would be no more of either...

Well,the New Jerusalem kingdom is after Christ's return, correct?

Well, if Christ took away evil at His coming- then, why friend, is the SALVATION call still going out in the New Jerusalem according to the word of God?

Rev.22:14-17 NKJV,
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,[a] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But[b] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.â€
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!†And let him who hears say, “Come!†And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
Footnotes:

1. Revelation 22:14 NU-Text reads wash their robes.
2. Revelation 22:15 NU-Text and M-Text omit But.

 

[jasoncran]

so let me guess this straight when a christian dies the family and friends dont miss him and death is but an illusion?

where is said soul of the christian deceased?

 

[n2thelight]

Well, I disagree. Satan is not alive in the flesh or in spirit. But, he represents "evil" & his influence will continue to have an affect on those who are in darkness- AND those who believe in his being alive & having real power over their flesh (aka-soul bondages)

So when was satan(death)cast into the lake of fire?

The "no more tears" in Rev.21 is directed mainly at Israel & the fact that the saved (Messianic Jews-12 tribes) would have no more tears, as they would live in safety in the New Jerusalem. The rod of God's chastisement was removed & God had once more shook the heavens & earth - & only the faithful remained.
It does not mean that the church or kingdom would be immune from tears, death, crying, pain & sorrow for all times or never experience persecution again.
Those are merely figures of speech describing the removal of the sorrows associated with the persecutions attending the end of the Mosaic age in AD70.

When Christ returns He shall rule from Jerusalem,had He returned already,that would be now,or maybe you can tell me when this does happen....Are you saying that only the faithful are in Jerusalem now,if so when were the bad figs taken out.....

Also you make a big mistake in seperating the Church from Israel....

So what Hitler did to the Jews,was not persecution?

One more thing,Ive asked this several times with no answer,why are we still in flesh bodies.....????

 

[Stormcrow]

So when was satan(death)cast into the lake of fire?

Right about the same time everything else in the book of Revelation was being fulfilled:

{6} And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. Revelation 22:6 (NASB)

{10} And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Revelation 22:10 (NASB)

{16}"I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." Revelation 22:16 (NASB)

What churches you ask?

The same churches mentioned here:

{11}"Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea." Revelation 1:11 (NASB)

Revelation isn't written to or about us.

Got an issue with the words "soon" and "near?" Take it up with Jesus, who sent an angel to tell John these things.

 

[Stormcrow]

One more thing,Ive asked this several times with no answer,why are we still in flesh bodies.....????

And I've answered it before: because we're not dead! We have yet to "shuffle off the mortal coil!"

And even when I do, I'll just be "pining for the fjords*."

*(Courtesy of the "dead parrot sketch" by Monty Python.)

 

[smaller]

Revelation isn't written to or about us.

Indeedy it is:

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shallpass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Many try to eradicate the Words of God based on 'time frame' or 'ethnicity' or any numerous types of passing away.

Jesus' Words were clear enough. His Words do not pass away and 'man,' not just Israel, not just the 'church,' but man shall live by all His Words.

The difficulty then becomes 'how then do they presently apply' and/or 'how did they apply then?'

The answer is the same. What God/God in Christ Jesus spoke was always applicable and will always remain applicable for 'man.'

Those who don't see it that way have used their limited forms of understandings to eradicate The Word of God, which is quite a ridiculous methodology. Gods Words have many levels of applicability.

What Jesus spoke to the 7 Churches applies to 'man' today no different than then. If you look closely you will find the workings of Satan addressed in 'all' of those churches and the same applies to 'all mankind' today as far as that working being observed then, and NOW.

enjoy!

s

 

[Lehigh3]

No, the letters were specific to those churches that were present in Asia.
For many proofs but simply the things Jesus had "against" these churches- reveals it is to them & their works alone.
Do we have those in our churches today who hold to the doctrine of Balaam (Rev.2:14) who asked Balak to put a curse on Israel, by convincing them to eat things sacrificed to idols? Please.
And are there Jews in our churches who say they are Jews but are not today? Ha! What folly! That simply meant there were (the majority to) from national Israel in contempt of of Christians. Paul called them Judaizers. Those were the Jews that John described as "going out from us" - believing Christianity just to be a sect of Judaism - or else- so they left.
Even to be "saved from the hour of trial coming on the whole world." (notice it says after- 'to test those who dwell on the earth' "earth there refers to the Jews".) There were Jews in every city of the then "world" which was the Roman empire. And Jews were killed in all those cities during the great tribulation- not just in Israel.
Also, do you know what Christ even meant by "heaven & earth will pass away"?

He was given authority in all heaven & earth. God's new spiritual heaven & earth would be reigned over by Christ instead of Satan, the Law, sin & death.

You do well to read this link. Pay close attention when you get to the page that says what the parable means. "heaven & earth will pass away but My word will never pass away." The law of Christ changed from the Mosaic law.

YouTube - Full Preterism - Israel's Fig Tree
And rejoice!

 

[smaller]

No, the letters were specific to those churches that were present in Asia.

Using that methodology the only person being 'born again' would apply to was Nicodemus. lol

Romans 12:5
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

What God in Christ spoke to any applies to all one way or another.

For many proofs but simply the things Jesus had "against" these churches- reveals it is to them & their works alone.

All have sin and all sin is of the devil, which activity was addressed then, and applies just as well now without having to do double back flips.

Do we have those in our churches today who hold to the doctrine of Balaam (Rev.2:14) who asked Balak to put a curse on Israel, by convincing them to eat things sacrificed to idols? Please.

Absolutely that still transpires. Church members prophecy various curses for certain eating actions, death and destruction upon one anothers perpetually and continually to this day. It doesn't have to be 'an exact hit' to match the general criteria.

And very obviously Jesus pulled the Balac account forward and applied it in 'like' manner. So much for that being just a working of Balac. Christians throw stumbling blocks in each others ways continually as well in a myriad of forms, as well as commit both physical a spiritual adultery, and even eat PIG both spiritually and physically.

Revelation 2:

14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

And are there Jews in our churches who say they are Jews but are not today?
Ha! What folly!

Any believer knows they are Jews inwardly, and some claim to be and are not:
Where have you been?

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

A problem might appear when one starts looking solely at 'flesh men' as you seem to have acquired a habit of. A lot of believers have little if any spiritual vision or understandings of these exact matters.

That simply meant there were (the majority to) from national Israel in contempt of of Christians.

There is only one Body of believers with One Head. Segmenting believers to a certain time frame, a certain locale or a certain ethnic group or male a female doesn't much apply to spiritual matters in any case.

Paul called them Judaizers. Those were the Jews that John described as "going out from us" - believing Christianity just to be a sect of Judaism - or else- so they left.

Again, you have little vision of these matters. I suppose you are going to claim they slid in the church doors on their bellies and no one saw them?

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares,

There are those who claim to be Jews, but are not. That would be the spirit of slumber upon the blinded claimants speaking through those people. (see Romans 11:8 or 2 Cor. 4:4 for examples amongst many others)

Even to be "saved from the hour of trial coming on the whole world." (notice it says after- 'to test those who dwell on the earth'

You're still here aren't you? And yes, all believers are tested. Some are spared the trial of the 'whole world' because they have a decent understanding of the terms. Scriptures do present many matters un-seen, particularly to flesh lookers.

"earth there refers to the Jews".)

If there was a hoot and a ha! that would be it. Don't you know you have a 'dust' body aka earth?

There were Jews in every city of the then "world" which was the Roman empire. And Jews were killed in all those cities during the great tribulation- not just in Israel.

Nice try on the imposition, but certainly not anything resembling the great tribulation. Here is what happened to Israel of the flesh:

Jeremiah 31:10
Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

Israel was disbursed many times and in many ways throughout the O.T. and of course even those things were written for our examples.

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Do you know what an example is? One might think they would heed examples that were 'all' written for our benefits?

Also, do you know what Christ even meant by "heaven & earth will pass away"?

You want to look at flesh Jews, Christians living only in Asia and now you want to school me on an association term for the above. Funny #2.

He was given authority in all heaven & earth. God's new spiritual heaven & earth would be reigned over by Christ instead of Satan, the Law, sin & death.

Yeah, you kinda dodged this whole matter once before, claiming that this already happened:

Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

None of those things exist anymore, right?

You do well to read this link.

I've walked my mile with the full preterist camp. They are utterly full of baloney.

Sorry.

s

 

[jasoncran]

uh know one knows what the synagoge of satan is when the lord refered to it .the churches there did.

just as we have poes on christian forums perhaps that was the case with that synagouge.

christians arent jews. read that verse in context and who that is adressed and read up on moses said on circumision when he had handed the deutermonical recourse

be ye no more stiff necked and circumised the foreskin of your heart,

didnt paul say that? yup and that was telling the audience that faith is more important then the act of circumsion. for if they had faith(properly) in moses then they would have accepted the lord.

 

[smaller]

uh know one knows what the synagoge of satan is when the lord refered to it .the churches there did.

One might think that the synagogue of Satan might, just might have something to do with...hmmm? Let me see? Satan?

just as we have poes on christian forums perhaps that was the case with that synagouge.

christians arent jews. read that verse in context and who that is adressed and read up on moses said on circumision when he had handed the deutermonical recourse

I read Paul and accept his statement regarding this matter not being a 'fleshly matter. Context doesn't change a thing. A Jew was, is and will always be one 'inwardly' of the spirit, just as one might accept Abraham as the 'father' of faith, not being ones physical father.

be ye no more stiff necked and circumised the foreskin of your heart,

didnt paul say that? yup and that was telling the audience that faith is more important then the act of circumsion. for if they had faith(properly) in moses then they would have accepted the lord.

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew , which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit

Make of it what you can.

s

 

[jasoncran]

One might think that the synagogue of Satan might, just might have something to do with...hmmm? Let me see? Satan?



I read Paul and accept his statement regarding this matter not being a 'fleshly matter. Context doesn't change a thing. A Jew was, is and will always be one 'inwardly' of the spirit, just as one might accept Abraham as the 'father' of faith, not being ones physical father.



Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew , which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit

Make of it what you can.

s

well being a fulfilled jew that versed confirmed that i was an olive branch that was cut off and grafted in .

but since you must push the issue.

deutermony 10:16

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiff necked.


this is a reoccuring theme in the ot.

deutermony 30:6

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

jeremiah 4;4
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench [it], because of the evil of your doings.

getting the point?

the jews in that roman epistle audience were proud of being born a jew and paul stated that isnt what pleases god. faith does.

we arent called jews first in antioch its christians.

our faith is a jewish faith but i will say this. theres much more to the ot then most gentile christians and including myself admits to be looked at from a hebrew perspective.

 

[Lehigh3]

All sin was of the devil. That is figure of speech. John was merely saying that those not in Christ are slaves to the power of sin & death. First was the natural man- Adam - then the Spiritual.

We are free from the power of sin & death. Sin does not reign over us.

 

[smaller]

well being a fulfilled jew that versed confirmed that i was an olive branch that was cut off and grafted in .

but since you must push the issue.

deutermony 10:16

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiff necked.


this is a reoccuring theme in the ot.

deutermony 30:6

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

jeremiah 4;4
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench [it], because of the evil of your doings.

getting the point?

I have no issues with the above being in accord with Paul's statement.

Your point is what?

the jews in that roman epistle audience were proud of being born a jew and paul stated that isnt what pleases god. faith does.

We've done this drill before as well. Faith 'works' through Love, therefore Love is the 'evidence' of same faith. I do not equate that to an exercise of the 4 step 'mouth your way out of hell' salvation 'technique' practiced by many proselytizers.

we arent called jews first in antioch its christians.

our faith is a jewish faith but i will say this. theres much more to the ot then most gentile christians and including myself admits to be looked at from a hebrew perspective.

I can not deny the obvious on matters of being 'born' a genetic Jew. They are all children of God exactly as God stated through the Law and the Prophets of the O.T.

And we've discussed 'why' they do not believe as well, meaning 'they are not alone' in that matter, seeing how the 'god of this world' blinds the minds of unbelievers, making any blinded Jew or Gentile categorically TWO entirely different entities, them and the anti-Christ spirit that blinds them. I have no use to see the facts otherwise, or even more importantly to mistake one for the other.

s

 

[smaller]

All sin was of the devil. That is figure of speech. John was merely saying that those not in Christ are slaves to the power of sin & death. First was the natural man- Adam - then the Spiritual.

We are free from the power of sin & death. Sin does not reign over us.

The notion that the devil was in 70 a.d. thrown into hell is complete and utter unrecorded nonsense, non-existing in the text.

The primary problem of full preterism is the nearly complete requirement and necessity of eradication of The Word of God relegating it past, done, over and inapplicable to believers.

Jesus had it right. His Word does not pass away. His Word IS Spirit present tense, Truth present tense, Life present tense Living and Active to this moment.

None of that has changed since His first Utters to man.

Jeremiah 23:29
Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Not any more, according to the full pre's.

2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Seen any ungodly men lately?

s

 

[n2thelight]

The notion that the devil was in 70 a.d. thrown into hell is complete and utter unrecorded nonsense, non-existing in the text.

The primary problem of full preterism is the nearly complete requirement and necessity of eradication of The Word of God relegating it past, done, over and inapplicable to believers.

Jesus had it right. His Word does not pass away. His Word IS Spirit present tense, Truth present tense, Life present tense Living and Active to this moment.

None of that has changed since His first Utters to man.

Jeremiah 23:29
Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Not any more, according to the full pre's.

2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Seen any ungodly men lately?

s

Very well said...........

 

[jasoncran]

I have no issues with the above being in accord with Paul's statement.

Your point is what?



We've done this drill before as well. Faith 'works' through Love, therefore Love is the 'evidence' of same faith. I do not equate that to an exercise of the 4 step 'mouth your way out of hell' salvation 'technique' practiced by many proselytizers.


I can not deny the obvious on matters of being 'born' a genetic Jew. They are all children of God exactly as God stated through the Law and the Prophets of the O.T.

And we've discussed 'why' they do not believe as well, meaning 'they are not alone' in that matter, seeing how the 'god of this world' blinds the minds of unbelievers, making any blinded Jew or Gentile categorically TWO entirely different entities, them and the anti-Christ spirit that blinds them. I have no use to see the facts otherwise, or even more importantly to mistake one for the other.

s

sigh, job isnt in hevean? neither noah, and his children .lot. abel,enoch none of them were jews but NOAHIDES.

well jesus stated he could of these rocks raise seed of the man abraham what did he mean?

so when the jews killed christians and death and judgment comes for all will God say to the christian next to his jewish murderer who never repeented.

ok mr.jew you can come in too?

i doubt that. yes some jews will come to christ but not all.

again we are not jews as in we replaced them but are in the same tree of true faith. but we dont indentify ourselves as jews but followers of christ.

 

[smaller]

sigh, job isnt in hevean? neither noah, and his children .lot. abel,enoch none of them were jews but NOAHIDES.

However one desires to classify anyone in the text, the one commonality is this. Law. The purposes for same? To be against 'all' lawlessness.

God practiced a 'pile on' with this matter in Israel, but the first Law was 'do not eat' which was enough to set the entire action of lawlessness into action in our present environment for His Purposes in Divine Judgements.

well jesus stated he could of these rocks raise seed of the man abraham what did he mean?

The short version? That it is God who controls and exercises 'all matters' and can do anything. See: Matt. 19:26, Mark 9:23, Mark 10:27 and Mark 14:26.

Bottom line? God is capable of of anything for His Intended Purposes. I try to keep this in mind when I see confusions of various sorts, which are all in essence a working of God. Some may say that God is 'not' The Author of confusion, and that is true when understood properly, but Gods Actions in Babel clearly show that God IS also The Author of confusion. There are clear reasons for how to understand 'how and why' this happens, and continues to happen.

so when the jews killed christians and death and judgment comes for all will God say to the christian next to his jewish murderer who never repeented.

Jason, as long as you view man as only 'man' you will simply never understand. That is assuredly not the case as scriptures show.

A simple example? If Paul having 'evil present' and even a devil upon himself did any 'good action' would one logically attribute any of that to the 'evil present' or the 'devil' with Paul? The answer is a resounding no.

Paul was therefore not alone. What applied to Paul would not apply to the other working.

ok mr.jew you can come in too?

What will not be allowed 'in' is the lawlessness present with all people, which same is of the devil. The same Words spoken to man are not applicable to that working. The same Words spoken have in effect 'opposite' or 'opposing' workings.

Christians who are alive at the 'separation' of the sheep and the goats 'will hear' the Words from God in Christ, 'Depart from me, I never knew you.' Why? Because we all have the presence of evil lawlessness with us that is not us, period.

i doubt that. yes some jews will come to christ but not all.

I could certainly elaborate on the simplicities of what is written for these matters, but until an individual is 'led by God' Himself to see the facts, you will never understand and you will remain blocked in your own mind to what scriptures are saying. Why? Because you will continue to be able to only see 'man alone' when that is not the factual case of scriptures.

One must take these matters 'personally.' When you can, you will see exceptionally well. I don't know if God has you slated for that sight in this present life, nor is it my yob. I share what I have, knowing that there is that 'other' in everyone that continues to blind and steal Gods Words from their hearts.

again we are not jews as in we replaced them but are in the same tree of true faith. but we dont indentify ourselves as jews but followers of christ.

I cited Paul's statement on this matter. Being a Jew is not a matter of physical birth. It is entirely a spiritual matter for those who hear and obey His Words.

Yes, the O.T. is fully applicable for all believers. How? It's simple. Read Paul's analysis in Romans 13:8-10 and figure it out. It is so simple any child can understand it. But the instant those words meet your heart, there your own battle begins within as the Jew in you will struggle with the adversary.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Lehigh3]

smaller,

I can see that you like satan to hold on to power over some. Don't project satan on the rest of the world.
Even the heathen take responsibility for their moral actions or are brought to justice anyway for them. So "ungodly" men is interpretative.

I do not call a "Godly" man one who gives the power of sin & death in their life to satan. The thief only came to rob, kill & destroy & one is making a big mistake living in such negativity.

The good news is that Jesus crushed satan for us & we do not have to worry about Adam's sin nor spiritual death.

If you have eternal life, joy would be obvious in your rhetoric. But, sadly, only depression seems to be apparent. Usually it is from chronic negative thinking.
Even C.S. Lewis displays humor with his fictional satan stories.

See, you deny that satan was crushed "shortly" from when Paul wrote Romans.

And you deny God's word in Rev.1 & 22 which says that ALL those things in that book were to to soon take place.

So, you are fighting God's words, not me.

I'm too positive & intelligent to be fooled by fictional prophesies or ppl's imaginations.

So study fulfilled prophecy like I did!

Thank you Lord!

 

[smaller]

smaller,

I can see that you like satan to hold on to power over some. Don't project satan on the rest of the world.

I find Satan to be a convenient shill in the text in order for me not to have to place judgment on my fellow man. Sorry if that offends you.

I also have no interest in lying to myself about the facts of sin and the myriad of connections thereof to the devils in the text.

You are welcome to eradicate the entirety of that presentation. I can't find justifications for such activity, scripturally speaking. Imagining that Satan is gone is rather futile seeing the condition of mankind from the beginning.

Even the heathen take responsibility for their moral actions or are brought to justice anyway for them. So "ungodly" men is interpretative.

You can take all the 'responsibility' for sin that you want. That will not change the devils outlook on the matter, nor will all the responsibility you can muster and all the scriptural facts you ignore and throw away change that working one iota. Nor will your personal responsibility make you 'sinless perfection.'

I do not call a "Godly" man one who gives the power of sin & death in their life to satan. The thief only came to rob, kill & destroy & one is making a big mistake living in such negativity.

And I don't call someone who denies the facts of these matters as being 'in Truth.' (See 1 John 1:8 for reference.)

The good news is that Jesus crushed satan for us & we do not have to worry about Adam's sin nor spiritual death.

What was taken away at the cross was attribution of sin toward mankind. That did not however destroy sin or the devil associated with same. That is yet to come and is the fulcrum of the promise of the Gospel. (See 2 Cor. 5:19 for reference.)

If you have eternal life, joy would be obvious in your rhetoric.

Many like to proclaim their supposed sinless condition at the expense of sound scriptural judgments. I have no use in denying the facts as Jesus presented them. Paul gave a clear picture about his own states of mind concerning these matters, but I'm sure that wouldn't interest you either.

Romans 9:
1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

But, sadly, only depression seems to be apparent. Usually it is from chronic negative thinking.

There is reasonable cause for the condition of Paul's mind. I understand why:

Romans 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

You are welcome to claim you have attained all of the above. I am welcome to observe your folly.

Even C.S. Lewis displays humor with his fictional satan stories.

While I appreciate some of Lewis' works, he did not have an entirely clear picture of these matters whatsoever, particularly as it applies to his own condition. I would say you perhaps have a similar form of blocking of the obvious. There are scriptural reasons for that, but to understand them, one must take the scriptures 'personally' even when the facts are not pleasant.

See, you deny that satan was crushed "shortly" from when Paul wrote Romans.

Believers for 2000 years have been waiting for that finality. Your claim of it's arrival is greatly exaggerated and quite a delusion of mind as I see it.

And you deny God's word in Rev.1 & 22 which says that ALL those things in that book were to to soon take place.

Soon on Gods Time and soon on the myopic visions of people are not the same. Time study is very interesting in the text.

So, you are fighting God's words, not me.

I can't really say I'm interested on hooking the entirety of understandings on a subjective view of the term 'soon.'

The obvious question that arises with that term is a simple one: Soon to Whom?

God Is Patient. Patience and toleration has gone on in Gods Time for quite a long time on the scale of mankinds existence.

I'm too positive & intelligent to be fooled by fictional prophesies or ppl's imaginations.

'

Then you should throw away the scriptures and follow Tony Robbins. He's much better at positive thinking 'only.'

So study fulfilled prophecy like I did!

Thank you Lord!

Anyone can be conned past the obvious. Just don them blinders.

enjoy!

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