Bible Study Scripture required?

[donadams]

First show me where the church teaches men to worship Mary the immaculate mother of God?

The church never teaches me to worship any but God alone!

Prayer, honor, veneration & bowing are not worship

Worship requires intent

Public worship requires a priest offering sacrifice

Praise of Mary and the saints redounds to the glory of God and Christ, cos Mary and the saints are what God made them, it is His handiwork (Lk 1:49 Lk 1:28) and the graces they have received come from the merits of Christ’s passion and death. Jesus Christ is the source of all grace! Jn 1:16-17

Likewise an Attack on Mary and the saints, or the authority of the apostles or the apostolic church or the truths and doctrines revealed by Christ and taught by His one, holy, catholic & apostolic church is an attack on God and on Christ! And His teaching authority in the church by the successors of the apostles!
Acts 9:4 Eph 5:32

2 Thessalonians 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[Humblepie]

That the pagan Roman Empire that was conquered by Christ and His church!

Don, The RCC IS NOT the church he refers to. Sorry, keep grasping at nothing though.

 

[Humblepie]

Christ and taught by His one, holy, catholic & apostolic church

You can add catholic all you want, but not one scripture backs your belief.

That being said, I do belive God has used and continues to use the catholic church. He also uses the Baptist, evangelical, Islam, Mormon religions for his glory and plan as well.
He even uses Satan.

 

[donadams]

I don't see that.

The new covenant is made with Israel (his lost sheep) and Judah.

It's made with people, not a religion.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

All men are invited to Christ and his new covenant church
Lk 2:11
Jn 1:29
Jn 3:16

Read gal 4 carefully
Holy mother church is the new Jerusalem

 

[donadams]

Don, The RCC IS NOT the church he refers to. Sorry, keep grasping at nothing though.

What is?

And what authority does it have?

Some nebulous group who calm themselves believers?

Believers are catechumens not baptized Christians

 

[donadams]

You can add catholic all you want, but not one scripture backs your belief.

That being said, I do belive God has used and continues to use the catholic church. He also uses the Baptist, evangelical, Islam, Mormon religions for his glory and plan as well.
He even uses Satan.

Lk 2:30 catholic universal all
Jn 1:29 same
Jn 3:16 same

 

[secretmessenger]

The church never teaches me to worship any but God alone!

Prayer, honor, veneration & bowing are not worship

Worship requires intent

Public worship requires a priest offering sacrifice

I'm not a catholic basher by any means, however I do feel compelled to make a point about this line of thought as it is upheld by pretty much every catholic I have run across.

Ok so, there are cases where mary worship is absolutely a thing all across the globe, it's just plain to see, to state that it is not so is to go against cold hard fact. Not that you are saying one way or the other, bear with me; my main contention with the catholic church is that it has certain traditions that are conducive to people falling off of the appropriate level of honoring mary as any other preacher act.

We as humans are prone to worship what we can see and feel, look at the Israelite and the golden calf.

Now then, just because the catholic church says that they don't believe in worshipping mary does not absolve them the guilt of the many who actually do. If I for example knew you were a recovered cocain addict and I had in my prayer room (which I required you to use or no longer live in my house) and had a bowl of cocain right there where you were supposed to pray, would I not be throwing a stumbling block in front of you? Your only choice would be to leave my house immediately or risk relapse.

This I see with the whole mary statues and what not. Not to get into the contentious origin of those statues in the first place, but the 10 commandments do state not to have any graven images, of anything in the heavens or under the earth, etc etc. And I believe it is for this one specific fault in man, that we will more likely than not fall prey to worship of the item or image before us rather than God, and we are very good at making up excuses to hide our sin rather than admit it.

 

[donadams]

I'm not a catholic basher by any means, however I do feel compelled to make a point about this line of thought as it is upheld by pretty much every catholic I have run across.

Ok so, there are cases where mary worship is absolutely a thing all across the globe, it's just plain to see, to state that it is not so is to go against cold hard fact. Not that you are saying one way or the other, bear with me; my main contention with the catholic church is that it has certain traditions that are conducive to people falling off of the appropriate level of honoring mary as any other preacher act.

We as humans are prone to worship what we can see and feel, look at the Israelite and the golden calf.

Now then, just because the catholic church says that they don't believe in worshipping mary does not absolve them the guilt of the many who actually do. If I for example knew you were a recovered cocain addict and I had in my prayer room (which I required you to use or no longer live in my house) and had a bowl of cocain right there where you were supposed to pray, would I not be throwing a stumbling block in front of you? Your only choice would be to leave my house immediately or risk relapse.

This I see with the whole mary statues and what not. Not to get into the contentious origin of those statues in the first place, but the 10 commandments do state not to have any graven images, of anything in the heavens or under the earth, etc etc. And I believe it is for this one specific fault in man, that we will more likely than not fall prey to worship of the item or image before us rather than God, and we are very good at making up excuses to hide our sin rather than admit it.

I get it

Do you believe images are forbidden?

 

[secretmessenger]

I get it

Do you believe images are forbidden?

What like images in general or as specifically mentioned graven images, such as has a 3d form hewn from rock, wood, or cast from metals of various alloy?

I think I see where you are going with this line of thought, that images on our phones or any screen or even in art and whatnot, and to an extent sure, if I am in the company of an individual whom I know has a particular weakness to such and such then it is sin to me to use or engage in that in their presence. Our freedom in Christ is not justified in the person with the strongest faith or conscience but rather the weaker brother and if we should cause the weaker to fall then we are in sin especially if we do so knowingly or willingly.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Lk 2:30 catholic universal all
Jn 1:29 same
Jn 3:16 same

wrong. BORN AGAIN, not catholic.

Some nebulous group who calm themselves believers?

Wrong wrong wrong.
Not "nebulus", SUPER DUPER CLEAR. "You shall know them by their fruit" <-- KNOW. not guess at, not speculate on, KNOW. Matthew 7:16.
Catholic church bear BAD fruit. see nazi incident, inquisitions, excatholic testimonies from athiests, oh my!
meanwhile Born Again brethren bear GOOD fruit! see Christsforgiveness yt channel for instance.

You apparently only think of the church in building terms! such narrow mind from catholic.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Believers are catechumens not baptized Christians

their catechism is the BIBLE the WORD OF GOD.
humans are not the WORD OF GOD.

 

[KV-44-v1]

mother church is the new Jerusalem

Replacement theology. Mother of WHO or WHAT exactly?
if it is not the mother of anything then WHY bother with a meaningless title??

 

[donadams]

What like images in general or as specifically mentioned graven images, such as has a 3d form hewn from rock, wood, or cast from metals of various alloy?

I think I see where you are going with this line of thought, that images on our phones or any screen or even in art and whatnot, and to an extent sure, if I am in the company of an individual whom I know has a particular weakness to such and such then it is sin to me to use or engage in that in their presence. Our freedom in Christ is not justified in the person with the strongest faith or conscience but rather the weaker brother and if we should cause the weaker to fall then we are in sin especially if we do so knowingly or willingly.

What makes it graven and against the first commandment?

 

[donadams]

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
(Portrayed / crucifix)

Matt 27:3-10 statuary?

Zachariah 11:13 And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.





Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant ex 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded!


the icon-o-clast heresy was condemned by the holy apostles in the authority of Christ in the seventh century at the second council of Nicea!

Dogma catholic & divine faith revealed by Christ

158. It is permissible and profitable to venerate the Saints in Heaven, and to invoke their
intercession.
159. It is permissible and profitable to venerate the relics of the Saints.
160. It is permissible and profitable to venerate images of the Saints.

Thks

 

[secretmessenger]

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
(Portrayed / crucifix)

Matt 27:3-10 statuary?

Zachariah 11:13 And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.





Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant ex 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded!


the icon-o-clast heresy was condemned by the holy apostles in the authority of Christ in the seventh century at the second council of Nicea!

Dogma catholic & divine faith revealed by Christ

158. It is permissible and profitable to venerate the Saints in Heaven, and to invoke their
intercession.
159. It is permissible and profitable to venerate the relics of the Saints.
160. It is permissible and profitable to venerate images of the Saints.

Thks

Well sure but this is a very lazy argument, of course if it is something God specifically told them to make then it does not qualify as a graven image as mentioned in the 10 commandments. This is the exception not the rule, to say then that the because there is an exception on two very specific God instructed items then it's OK to have graven images of saints and mary everywhere is just an example of us making excuses for a sinful practice.

 

[secretmessenger]

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
(Portrayed / crucifix)

Matt 27:3-10 statuary?

Zachariah 11:13 And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.





Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant ex 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded!


the icon-o-clast heresy was condemned by the holy apostles in the authority of Christ in the seventh century at the second council of Nicea!

Dogma catholic & divine faith revealed by Christ

158. It is permissible and profitable to venerate the Saints in Heaven, and to invoke their
intercession.
159. It is permissible and profitable to venerate the relics of the Saints.
160. It is permissible and profitable to venerate images of the Saints.

Thks

Also I personally don't recognize any writings to supercede scripture in the least nor do I hang on the words of any priest etc, I rely only on scripture to clarify how to live a Godly life so it will do you no good to declare so and so says such and such or different so on the authority of Christ when the Bible very specifically teaches something else.

 

[donadams]

wrong. BORN AGAIN, not catholic.


Wrong wrong wrong.
Not "nebulus", SUPER DUPER CLEAR. "You shall know them by their fruit" <-- KNOW. not guess at, not speculate on, KNOW. Matthew 7:16.
Catholic church bear BAD fruit. see nazi incident, inquisitions, excatholic testimonies from athiests, oh my!
meanwhile Born Again brethren bear GOOD fruit! see Christsforgiveness yt channel for instance.

You apparently only think of the church in building terms! such narrow mind from catholic.

I was not referring to its effect but it’s application

All men
Jn 3:16 whosoever
Lk 2:11 savior of all (universal) men
Jn 1:29 all

The new covenant church has jurisdictional authority to teach and baptize all men
Thks

 

[Humblepie]

Don,
What's your point?

I see the invitation to salvation, but I do not see an invitation to the RCC.

Quit twisting scripture.

All men are invited to Christ and his new covenant church

Lk 2:11
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Jn 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Jn 3:16
For God so loved the world

 

[donadams]

their catechism is the BIBLE the WORD OF GOD.
humans are not the WORD OF GOD.

Yes the are!

2 Corinthians 3:3
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

 

[donadams]

Replacement theology. Mother of WHO or WHAT exactly?
if it is not the mother of anything then WHY bother with a meaningless title??

The new covenant is holy mother church gal 4:26