Self Righteousness

[gr8grace3]

Are you saying only disobedient believers, including Christ rejecting believers (oxymoron) are the only ones who will appear at the GWTJ?

No. Only those who have never believed in Christ will be at the GWT. disobedient believers or the idiots who walked away from Him are judged at the Bema seat of Christ. And suffer loss of rewards and blessings. And most of all suffer shame at their evaluation.

 

[gr8grace3]

Many folks will consider others to be self righteous when the one side does not 'see' things the same way..

Yeah, I know I am in a lot of areas. And when it comes to salvation we had better be damn certain that it was Christ alone that saved us and nothing from ourselves except the non-meritorious, one time belief in Christ for our salvation. Acts 16:31. I had better not of had some of my own self-righteousness included in that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...disobedient believers or the idiots who walked away from Him are judged at the Bema seat of Christ. And suffer loss of rewards and blessings. And most of all suffer shame at their evaluation.

Walked away as in 'no longer believe in Christ'?

If so, how does the sacrifice of Jesus, that can't cover the sin of not believing in that sacrifice (for obvious reasons), get applied to the believer's sin of no longer believing in the sacrifice of Jesus, (but instead now trusts in his own righteousness)? By faith? The faith he doesn't have?

 

[gr8grace3]

Walked away as in 'no longer believe in Christ'?

If so, how does the sacrifice of Jesus, that can't cover the sin of not believing in that sacrifice (for obvious reasons), get applied to the believer's sin of no longer believing in the sacrifice of Jesus, (but instead now trusts in his own righteousness)? By faith? The faith he doesn't have?

Because someone who stops believing has already been saved. Even if some think later on that they need to "help" out a bit is already saved. They are just worthless works.

 

[Kidron]

Now that's funny. You tell me I don't know about grace, but you do, and then attack when I say I know more about Biblical grace than you do. Oh, the hypocrisy (and it ain't done yet, lol).

!

Ive never specifically said that i know more about anything then you do.
However, i did read where you specifically said to me that you "know more about grace" then i do.
So, as this is a Thread about "self righteousness", the irony of your words is not lost on me.

K

 

[WIP]

This is the A&T forum. Please remember to consider the forum guidelines when posting. Lots of opinions flying around with no scriptural support for them.

Thanks.

 

[Kidron]

This is the A&T forum. Please remember to consider the forum guidelines when posting. Lots of opinions flying around with no scriptural support for them.

Thanks.

Outside of the Righteousness of God being given to us, there is nothing we can do to save ourselves.
So, how do we get this righteousness of God?
Listed below is the answer, and every time you read the word HE, remember that this is GOD.
He <> God
--

New International Version
he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.New American Standard Bible

for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.King James Bible

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.Holman Christian Standard Bible

God presented Him to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be righteous and declare righteous the one who has faith in Jesus. International Standard Version

He wanted to demonstrate at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies anyone who has the faithfulness of Jesus. NET Bible

This was also to demonstrate his righteousness in the present time, so that he would be just and the justifier of the one who lives because of Jesus' faithfulness. Aramaic Bible in Plain English

In the space that God in his patience has given to us, for the demonstration of his justice which is in this time, that he would be The Just One and would by justice declare righteous the one who is in the faith of our Lord Yeshua The Messiah.GOD'S WORD® Translation

He waited so that he could display his approval at the present time. This shows that he is a God of justice, a God who approves of people who believe in Jesus.
Jubilee Bible 2000

manifesting in this time his righteousness that he only be the just one and the justifier of him that is of the faith of Jesus.
King James 2000 Bible

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him who believes in Jesus.
American King James Version

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus.American Standard Version

for the showing, I say , of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.Douay-Rheims Bible

Through the forbearance of God, for the shewing of his justice in this time; that he himself may be just, and the justifier of him, who is of the faith of Jesus Christ.
Darby Bible Translation

for [the] shewing forth of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just, and justify him that is of [the] faith of Jesus.English Revised Version

for the shewing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.Webster's Bible Translation

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he may be just, and the justifier of him who believeth in Jesus.Weymouth New Testament

with a view to demonstrating, at the present time, His righteousness, that He may be shown to be righteous Himself, and the giver of righteousness to those who believe in Jesus.
World English Bible

to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus.Young's Literal Translation

for the shewing forth of His righteousness in the present time, for His being righteous, and >declaring him righteous< who is of the faith of Jesus.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ive never specifically said that i know more about anything then you do.
However, i did read where you specifically said to me that you "know more about grace" then i do.
So, as this is a Thread about "self righteousness", the irony of your words is not lost on me.

Maybe someday I'll know as much about all this as you do.
This is the condescending post of yours I was responding to:

Do you understand that Jesus shed his Blood?
Do you understand that this offer of the shed blood is a free gift?
Do you understand that once this shed blood is applied to MY SINS, that they are GONE?
Do you understand that this shedding of the Blood of Christ for me, once i receive it, > God applies it, and that is the end of it?
So, this exchange of MY SINS for the FREE PARDON that Christ's blood purchased, is a GIFT, that i dont earn and i dont keep.
This means that its GOD HIMSELF who is justifying me based on what CHRIST DID FOR ME, and that is the end of it, regarding my salvation.
Its DONE.
I dont keep it, i dont earn it, i dont lose it.
No Christian does.

 

[eddif]

The original poster, iLOVE, finally gave his scripture area. We are waiting for his comments on the Romans text area he presented.

eddif

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Because someone who stops believing has already been saved. Even if some think later on that they need to "help" out a bit is already saved. They are just worthless works.

Problem. Doesn't your doctrine say that future sins are forgiven when a person believes? Do you see the implication of that argument in regard to Christ forgiving the unforgivable sin (rejecting the righteousness of Christ in favor of one's own righteousness, or none at all)?

Keeping my posts short until the discussion can eventually connect with scriptural references.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Outside of the Righteousness of God being given to us, there is nothing we can do to save ourselves.
So, how do we get this righteousness of God?
Listed below is the answer, and every time you read the word HE, remember that this is GOD.
He <> God
--

New International Version
he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.New American Standard Bible

for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.King James Bible

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.Holman Christian Standard Bible

God presented Him to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be righteous and declare righteous the one who has faith in Jesus. International Standard Version

He wanted to demonstrate at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies anyone who has the faithfulness of Jesus. NET Bible

This was also to demonstrate his righteousness in the present time, so that he would be just and the justifier of the one who lives because of Jesus' faithfulness. Aramaic Bible in Plain English

In the space that God in his patience has given to us, for the demonstration of his justice which is in this time, that he would be The Just One and would by justice declare righteous the one who is in the faith of our Lord Yeshua The Messiah.GOD'S WORD® Translation

He waited so that he could display his approval at the present time. This shows that he is a God of justice, a God who approves of people who believe in Jesus.
Jubilee Bible 2000

manifesting in this time his righteousness that he only be the just one and the justifier of him that is of the faith of Jesus.
King James 2000 Bible

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him who believes in Jesus.
American King James Version

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus.American Standard Version

for the showing, I say , of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.Douay-Rheims Bible

Through the forbearance of God, for the shewing of his justice in this time; that he himself may be just, and the justifier of him, who is of the faith of Jesus Christ.
Darby Bible Translation

for [the] shewing forth of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just, and justify him that is of [the] faith of Jesus.English Revised Version

for the shewing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.Webster's Bible Translation

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he may be just, and the justifier of him who believeth in Jesus.Weymouth New Testament

with a view to demonstrating, at the present time, His righteousness, that He may be shown to be righteous Himself, and the giver of righteousness to those who believe in Jesus.
World English Bible

to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus.Young's Literal Translation

for the shewing forth of His righteousness in the present time, for His being righteous, and >declaring him righteous< who is of the faith of Jesus.

Do you really believe there is a single (saved) person in this forum that doesn't know that we can not save ourselves and that the righteousness of Christ comes through faith?

 

[Kidron]

Problem. Doesn't your doctrine say that future sins are forgiven when a person believes? ?

I dont know what his doctrine is, but i can answer your question.
Take your bible and turn to Romans 4:8.
Your bible in the New Testament, Paul speaking, tells you that sin will not be charged against you after you are born again.
This means, that when you sin after you are saved, its not ever again charged against you.
It doesn't mean you wont sin, but it does mean that GOD will NOT charge you for what Christ DIED to forgive.

And your question is..
Well, why does God not hold me responsible for my sins, after im saved, as Paul said.
And the answer is......He has no justification to hold them against you, because his SON died for them all.

Your next question is...."so, you are saying i can sin all i want, and not worry about it".
And no, that is not is what Paul said, and its not what i wrote.
What Paul said to you is that your sin is not held against you, because of the Cross.

The final answer is this.......even tho all your sins are covered, and God does not hold you accountable any longer for what Jesus died to pay for......IF you continue in sin, .... you can die, you will lose your testimony, you will lose your rewards in heaven, and if you dont stop and turn from backsliding, you might get sick, and you can count on God rebuking you in hot chastisement (Heb 12:6), as this is a Father spanking a misbehaving child of his.
BUT, he will never hold the penalty of hell for eternity over you, because his Son has removed the eternal penalty from you by paying for it with his LIFE.
Thats what he died on the Cross to do for you.

Romans 4:8 listed below.

Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.
"New Living Translation

Yes, what joy for those whose record the LORD has cleared of sin.
"English Standard Version

blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.
”New American Standard Bible

"BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.
"King James Bible

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Holman Christian Standard Bible

How joyful is the man the Lord will never charge with sin!
International Standard Version

How blessed is the person whose sins the Lord will never charge against him!"
NET Bible

blessed is the one against whom the Lord will never count sin."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English

“And blessed is the man to whom God will not reckon his sins.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation

Blessed is the person whom the Lord no longer considers sinful."
Jubilee Bible 2000

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute sin.
King James 2000 Bible

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I dont know what his doctrine is, but i can answer your question.
Take your bible and turn to Romans 4:8.
Your bible in the New Testament, Paul speaking, tells you that sin will not be charged against you after you are born again.
This means, that when you sin after you are saved, its not ever again charged against you.
It doesn't mean you wont sin, but it does mean that GOD will NOT charge you for what Christ DIED to forgive.

And your question is..
Well, why does God not hold me responsible for my sins, after im saved, as Paul said.
And the answer is......He has no justification to hold them against you, because his SON died for them all.

Everybody knows this. You probably won't find a single believer here who will disagree with this. But this is only true for the person who has faith that this is true, not for the one who formerly believed but has abandoned faith in the blood of Christ that makes everything you posted true. What you posted is NOT true apart from the faith that secures it. There is no forgiveness for rejecting the forgiveness of God (Hebrews 10:26 NASB).

Please give a scripture that says Christ's sacrifice will forgive the sin of not accepting his forgiveness. Don't create a diversion. Simply provide the scripture that says Christ's forgiveness covers the sin of not having Christ's forgiveness. I provided the scripture that says it doesn't.

 

[Kidron]

Do you really believe there is a single (saved) person in this forum that doesn't know that we can not save ourselves and that the righteousness of Christ comes through faith?

Let me put it to you this way.
If you think you can lose your salvation, this mean you believe its up to you to keep it.
At that POINT, you have stopped trusting Christ, and have started trusting yourself.
This is EXACTLY "saving yourself", theology.
So a person ither trusts Christ or they try to add to Christ, their works.
If they try to argue that ANYTHING is necessary to STAY SAVED other then the Blood of Jesus and the new birth..
Examples would be......water baptism, confessing sins, living a holy life, .....then they are trusting in those WORKS, and THAT is not Faith, that is "works" to be saved.
That is self effort.
That is trying to make yourself right or keep yourself right with God, and that is not Salvation, and neither is it Faith.
A person is to live the life of a Disciple, after they are saved., but they are never to confuse the lifestyle they are to live with what God requires of them to be saved or to stay saved.

 

[Kidron]

Please give a scripture that says Christ's sacrifice will forgive the sin of not accepting his forgiveness.

Its odd that you would ask me to give a scripture that says God forgives Christ Rejection. (unpardonable sin).
Where do you get this stuff

JB, listen.........Christ's sacrifice cant possibly forgive the sin of unbelief.
Its impossible to receive a pardon that you wont take
Ive never said that the Cross will justify an unbeliever.
All i stated was that there is no sin the Blood of Christ does not continue to forgive, in the life of a Believer, for etenity.
Bottom line, so dont misquote me.
thx.


K

 

[dianegcook]

Basically, we don't get to be judge of our own righteousness. So if you believe you are righteous, then you are probably self righteous.

Luk 18:9 ¶ And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luk 18:10 - Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 - The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 - I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 - And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 - I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
​

:amen

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Let me put it to you this way.
If you think you can lose your salvation, this mean you believe its up to you to keep it.

Let's use the logic of this argument which I know you agree with to help you understand what you are saying is not true, but what really is: If I was saved by no work of the law then I can't be unsaved by not doing a work of the law.

Now let's apply that same logic, which we both agree with, to what I'm saying: If I was saved by my trust in Jesus Christ then I must continue to trust in Christ to stay saved.

At that POINT, you have stopped trusting Christ, and have started trusting yourself.
This is EXACTLY "saving yourself", theology.

YES! Will you explain this to gr8grace3?

So a person ither trusts Christ or they try to add to Christ, their works.

I'm not in disagreement with this. I'm not being combative, but it's apparent you simply have not understood what I've been saying.

If they try to argue that ANYTHING is necessary to STAY SAVED other then the Blood of Jesus and the new birth..

That's what I'm saying! Faith in the blood of Christ is what you must have and continue to have to stay saved. I am in no way saying works are what you must have to stay saved (except that works are the measuring rod of the faith that saves all by itself--another subject).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Its odd that you would ask me to give a scripture that says God forgives Christ Rejection. (unpardonable sin).
Where do you get this stuff

I'm simply responding to your resistance to my argument.
It's becoming obvious to me that you have simply not understood my argument. You've been coming at me with this anti-works argument that I'm not even arguing against.

JB, listen.........Christ's sacrifice cant possibly forgive the sin of unbelief.
Its impossible to receive a pardon that you wont take

Awesome. Now explain this to gr8grace3.

We can talk about what we are actually in disagreement about later.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Because someone who stops believing has already been saved. Even if some think later on that they need to "help" out a bit is already saved. They are just worthless works.

I just want to know how having to have a continuing faith (not works) is to be considered that worthless work of self-righteousness. Chapter and verse would go a long way to convincing me.

 

[gr8grace3]

Problem. Doesn't your doctrine say that future sins are forgiven when a person believes? Do you see the implication of that argument in regard to Christ forgiving the unforgivable sin (rejecting the righteousness of Christ in favor of one's own righteousness, or none at all)?

Keeping my posts short until the discussion can eventually connect with scriptural references.

ALL sin was judged on the Cross, past, present and future.........for everybody. Everyone has their sin forgiven in the sense of judged and they won't pay a thing for their sin.

There is no such thing as the unpardonable sin in our lifetime. If unbelief was unpardonable, nobody could then believe and be saved.(even if someone believed, they couldn't be saved, because their unbelief was unpardonable.) Blasphemy of the Spirit is actually watching Jesus Christ doing wonders in His Humanity through the Spirit and attributing it to Satan. And Jesus is not physically around today for us to do that.

New American Standard Bible
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

This does not say they will be judged according to their sins or their unbelief. Their unbelief gained them their chance to show their human good(deeds) compared to Christ and the cross.