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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
Self Righteousness
- Thread starter iLOVE
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Deborah13
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This is the A&T forum so please state your own views and the scripture references that support your views. Without those I don't what your argument is so I can't address it with mine.
While waiting on the OP.
Ecclesiastes 7:16
Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?
17 Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time?
The righteousness we have is Christ's righteousness, not ours.
We do sin, but we do not continue in sin that grace might abound.
Wisdom comes from God, and not from our carnal nature.
eddif
Ecclesiastes 7:16
Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?
17 Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time?
The righteousness we have is Christ's righteousness, not ours.
We do sin, but we do not continue in sin that grace might abound.
Wisdom comes from God, and not from our carnal nature.
eddif
Kidron
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- May 2, 2012
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Self Righteous can be thought of like this.
"spiritual pride".
It can manifest as a falling away from the Grace of God, and falling into a pattern of works and legalism where the person tries to self-justify themselves before God.
It can be so severe that these "fallen from Grace" types, (Galatians 5:4) will use a single misapplied quote from the book of James to actually try to deny the Apostle Paul's chapters of teachings on the "Gift of Righteousness", or "justification by faith", etc.
There are even entire demoninations who have totally fallen from Grace and would put in its place, water baptism, Acts 2, or the Old Testament 10 commandments, and would tell you that if you believe that Jesus died for your sins and you can be forgiven for simply believing this by faith, then you are lost.
So, what is it to be self righteous?
Very simply put, its the act of trying to make yourself right with God by works, instead of accepting the Gift of Pardon by faith.
The fact is, its self-righteousness, or the act of trying to save yourself, that actually damns you., as you are not trusting in Christ, but you are trusting in yourself, in your own effort, to be "saved".
"spiritual pride".
It can manifest as a falling away from the Grace of God, and falling into a pattern of works and legalism where the person tries to self-justify themselves before God.
It can be so severe that these "fallen from Grace" types, (Galatians 5:4) will use a single misapplied quote from the book of James to actually try to deny the Apostle Paul's chapters of teachings on the "Gift of Righteousness", or "justification by faith", etc.
There are even entire demoninations who have totally fallen from Grace and would put in its place, water baptism, Acts 2, or the Old Testament 10 commandments, and would tell you that if you believe that Jesus died for your sins and you can be forgiven for simply believing this by faith, then you are lost.
So, what is it to be self righteous?
Very simply put, its the act of trying to make yourself right with God by works, instead of accepting the Gift of Pardon by faith.
The fact is, its self-righteousness, or the act of trying to save yourself, that actually damns you., as you are not trusting in Christ, but you are trusting in yourself, in your own effort, to be "saved".
Deborah13
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Good stuff. Most believers don't understand that sin was paid for. But the evil of self righteousness(human good) was not.
Rev 20:12~~New American Standard Bible
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds(human good).
Self righteousness~~It is why the Gospel has been turned into the doctrine of sin and human good and has left the doctrine of the Son.
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iLOVE
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Romans 2:1-5 New Living Translation (NLT)
God’s Judgment of Sin
2 You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you who judge others do these very same things. 2 And we know that God, in his justice, will punish anyone who does such things. 3 Since you judge others for doing these things, why do you think you can avoid God’s judgment when you do the same things? 4 Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can’t you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?
5 But because you are stubborn and refuse to turn from your sin, you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself. For a day of anger is coming, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
Self-righteousness is a very difficult sin to get people to see and condemn in themselves.
Tradition is such a strong force to deal with.
Could you take the last verses of Romans 1 and the first few verses of Romans 2 and just quote the self righteousness verses by themselves? I personally think it will be two verses. Make no comment about the people who are self righteous, but just separate the verses by themselves. Verses that explain self righteous behavior and thought.
Some folks have all the verses so run together that they have their own definition of: (just do not judge anyone anytime).
I hope I requested something that makes sense. If not, I will regroup and restate.
I am actually checking my understanding by asking for the verses. LOL. I must have read this area 50 times (over the years) trying to understand.
eddif
Sinthesis
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Basically, we don't get to be judge of our own righteousness. So if you believe you are righteous, then you are probably self righteous.
Luk 18:9 ¶ And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luk 18:10 - Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 - The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 - I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 - And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 - I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Luk 18:10 - Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 - The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 - I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 - And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 - I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
You done good. Now. I suppose we get to allow the OP to apply your thoughts to his Romans passage. Should not take more than 100 posts (hopefully we take much less).
eddif
Jethro Bodine
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I agree with you--there is no forgiveness available on either side of the cross for that sin--the sin of rejecting the righteousness of Christ in favor of one's own righteousness. There is no sacrifice available, before or after salvation, for the sin of rejecting the sacrifice of Jesus and his righteousness.
"10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar (blasphemy of the Spirit--for which there is no forgiveness in this age or the one to come), because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son." (1 John 5:10 NASB parenthesis mine)
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Jethro Bodine
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For the world, that is true.
But at this time, within the church, the difficult thing to get people to see is the righteousness of Christ is not a pass on the obligation that Christ's righteousness work itself out in the believer (Romans 8:12 NASB).
The grace of God's righteousness was given to us so we can say 'no' to unrighteousness, not so we can live comfortably deceived in the lie that it doesn't matter if we act righteous or not.
"11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age" (Titus 2:11 NASB)
Somewhere along the line this disconnect entered the church between possessing Christ's righteous nature and the necessity of faith causing that righteousness to manifest in the members of our body or else be condemned as a person who has no faith.
Kidron
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Yes, the "unpardonable sin".
Its the sin of not being saved., of rejecting Christ., of rejecting the offer of forgiveness....as this is the one sin that cant be pardoned because it has rejected the offer.
Jethro Bodine
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...
"8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us." (1 John 1:8-10 NASB)
Ultimately, you can't ignore, or reject the forgiveness of God and still have the ministry of that forgiveness still at work for you in heaven. That's what faith and salvation are all about. Faith is how we lay hold of the forgiveness of God given us through the ministry and sacrifice of Christ operating in heaven right now. That's not a works gospel. That's the faith gospel.
Yes. A rejection of forgiveness which John warns his believing 'children' about (and by extension to us):
"8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us." (1 John 1:8-10 NASB)
Ultimately, you can't ignore, or reject the forgiveness of God and still have the ministry of that forgiveness still at work for you in heaven. That's what faith and salvation are all about. Faith is how we lay hold of the forgiveness of God given us through the ministry and sacrifice of Christ operating in heaven right now. That's not a works gospel. That's the faith gospel.
Kidron
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The beauty of the Blood of Jesus, is that it does not require me to confess my sins after im saved, to keep me pardoned.
The wonder of being born again, is that i didnt do it, i cant lose it, i cant take credit for it, and i should not try to add to it by twisting scriptures to try to prove God's provision of Grace needs my self righteous help.
The wonder of being born again, is that i didnt do it, i cant lose it, i cant take credit for it, and i should not try to add to it by twisting scriptures to try to prove God's provision of Grace needs my self righteous help.
Jethro Bodine
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Right, your faith is what is required.
That faith will then be seen in a confession, not in a denial and ignoring, of sin. Just as your faith in the beginning was seen in a confession of sin.
Are you somehow afraid to acknowledge that your trust in God is somehow something you didn't do, because if you do claim it as such you are guilty of making justification/salvation a works gospel? If so, please show me where Paul said trust in the blood is also among the works that can not justify and condemn a person of trying to earn their justification/salvation.
Kidron
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Do you understand that Jesus shed his Blood?
Do you understand that this offer of the shed blood is a free gift?
Do you understand that once this shed blood is applied to MY SINS, that they are GONE?
Do you understand that this shedding of the Blood of Christ for me, once i receive it, > God applies it, and that is the end of it?
So, this exchange of MY SINS for the FREE PARDON that Christ's blood purchased, is a GIFT, that i dont earn and i dont keep.
This means that its GOD HIMSELF who is justifying me based on what CHRIST DID FOR ME, and that is the end of it, regarding my salvation.
Its DONE.
I dont keep it, i dont earn it, i dont lose it.
No Christian does.
Yeah, you understand the argument you are in. And you will be told that you don't.
Kidron
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Yes, i have been here before
Its always the same with these types.
"lets run to james, then lets run to hebrews, then lets all end up in Matthew, as we try to delete what the Apostle Paul said'.
Yep.
nothing ever changes.
Even in Paul's day he wrote about these "save myself" types, and stated that they accused him of teaching to "sin that grace would come".
So, these legalists types, who cant stand Grace, .... are since the Cross,.... and will be trying to harm other Christians till Christ comes back.
"nothing new under the sun".
Its always the same with these types.
"lets run to james, then lets run to hebrews, then lets all end up in Matthew, as we try to delete what the Apostle Paul said'.
Yep.
nothing ever changes.
Even in Paul's day he wrote about these "save myself" types, and stated that they accused him of teaching to "sin that grace would come".
So, these legalists types, who cant stand Grace, .... are since the Cross,.... and will be trying to harm other Christians till Christ comes back.
"nothing new under the sun".
Deborah13
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- Nov 30, 2012
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It is unwise to judge others salvation, position in Christ, or whether they can be saved or not. After all He saved us, who were His enemies and still are not perfect in righteousness, as He is. We are not God who sees into the heart of a man. Neither do we have the authority to condemn anyone.
All we can do is judge if an action is sin or not. If we cannot do this, we cannot judge our own actions as to whether they are sin or not. We have the Word of God to instruct us in what is sin and what is righteous works of faith.
