Seriously.. whom is the tribulation actually for.

[Willie T]

God gives us covenant relationship, like a husband and a wife.

What kind of religion do you have with your wife?


JLB

Sorry, you still come off as very confused. We have a Bible just full of God telling the Israelites who He was, and how they were to worship Him. Not much of a way around that being their religion.

 

[JLB]

So people can avoid tribulation just by staying away from the city of Jerusalem? Then most the world will not be effected.

Jerusalem is the epicenter of the tribulation, where it will start with the AOD.

The trigger is the AOD.

... For then there will be...

JLB

 

[JLB]

Sorry, you still come off as very confused. We have a Bible just full of God telling the Israelites who He was, and how they were to worship Him. Not much of a way around that being their religion.

What does that have to do with religion.

Relationship is what God offers, not religion.

The first religion was in Babylon, where men tried to get to heaven by the works of the hands. By their own effort.

Building a tower to the heavens.

This is the mother, or origen of all religions (harlots).

 

[Willie T]

You still don't seem to understand. The Israelites adhered to a religious system God instituted for them to follow. They did not have a Savior-to-Saved relationship with God. They offered sacrifices for that.

 

[Deborah13]

I do not think that the great trib is about the killing of the prophets. I think that is is about them turning their backs on God as a nation, and since us Christians are grafted into the vine...us also. The great trib is what this is about. Punishing the earths people and pushing their backs to the wall in so great of a manner, that they will cry out unto God again to be their God and to come help them. To turn to God as a nation and as a people. That's what the great tribs about.

They may have had their share of vengeance for the killing of the prophets. Perhaps that was what 70AD or even WWII was about.

Yep, so if there was a time of vengeance for killing the prophets like Jesus said and there was the total destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70AD.....approx. 40 yrs from the cross. That generation just as Jesus said.
I'm not saying that this has anything to do with Rev., What I am saying is that when some teachers use this scripture to try to say this great tribulation is in the future they are misusing this scripture to back up what they think Rev. is saying about a future tribulation. And seeing this scripture directly points to Daniel 9 we cannot put Daniel 9 out in the future either. How does Daniel 9 tells us what time period he is talking about in those verses, because it is talking about when the Messiah came and what He did.
If one believes that Matthew 24 is in the future, they have no choice but to believe that God is going to bring judgment on the Jews Again for what they did to the prophets, apostles, etc. Because that is what the scripture says. That is why a great tribulation came on that generation.
If one says it is a double prophecy, as some do, they have to believe the same thing. It doesn't say anything about changing hearts to God. It says it is a "day of vengeance."

 

[Deborah13]

God killing the Jews?

Who caused the Assyrians and the Babylonians to take them into captivity, some were KILLED?
It was God's judgements on them as a nation. He caused it didn't He? But they were always warned by the prophets that they needed to straighten up their act before it actually happened.
Just like Jesus warned them before 70AD.

 

[Sinthesis]

Who caused the Assyrians and the Babylonians to take them into captivity, some were KILLED?
It was God's judgements on them as a nation. He caused it didn't He? But they were always warned by the prophets that they needed to straighten up their act before it actually happened.
Just like Jesus warned them before 70AD.

God even warned the Assyrians, and they were given an extra 50 or so years for their repentance.

 

[jasonc]

Two things...They will be a little preoccupied at Jerusalem, and...(wait for it...) God!
They'll be ok.

uhm the whole world? why then is the doctrine say for all to flee and hide? that is what I was taught.

 

[jasonc]

I do not think that the great trib is about the killing of the prophets. I think that is is about them turning their backs on God as a nation, and since us Christians are grafted into the vine...us also. The great trib is what this is about. Punishing the earths people and pushing their backs to the wall in so great of a manner, that they will cry out unto God again to be their God and to come help them. To turn to God as a nation and as a people. That's what the great tribs about.

They may have had their share of vengeance for the killing of the prophets. Perhaps that was what 70AD or even WWII was about.

that would mean AMERICA and any jew anywhere would be under that wrath.post tribbers best be in hiding.

 

[Deborah13]

God gives us covenant relationship, like a husband and a wife.

What kind of religion do you have with your wife?


JLB

Lexy says....."My mom and dad have a personal relationship with each other. It is within the institution called marriage. God and I have a personal relationship with each other. It is within the institution (religion) called Christianity."

 

[JLB]

You still don't seem to understand. The Israelites adhered to a religious system God instituted for them to follow. They did not have a Savior-to-Saved relationship with God. They offered sacrifices for that.

That's where you have missed it.

You seem to think the man made religion of Judaism, is somehow the "religion" that God gave the children of Israel.

Judaism is what they turned God's Covenant into.

Judaism is the religion that was responsible for murdering Jesus Christ.

Judaism rejects Jesus as Messiah.

Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 2:22

Judaism is the religion that persecuted the Church, through Saul of Tarsus.

It doesn't get anymore antichrist than murdering the Christ.


The Lord made a Covenant with Abraham.

The law was added to that covenant until the Seed should come.


Judaism is not of God.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Lexy says....."My mom and dad have a personal relationship with each other. It is within the institution called marriage. God and I have a personal relationship with each other. It is within the institution (religion) called Christianity."

What religion do you call the relationship you have with your husband?

It's called Covenant Relationship.

 

[Deborah13]

What religion do you call the relationship you have with your husband?

It's called Covenant Relationship.

Those were my daughter's words not mine she wrote that post.
That was not the point of the post. Maybe you could try reading it again, the comparison made.
Christianity is a established institution with a set of doctrines, a religion.
Marriage is also an established institution with certain expectations attached to it.

My relationship with my Lord is personal to me.
My relationship with my husband is also personal to me.

 

[Willie T]

That's where you have missed it.

You seem to think the man made religion of Judaism, is somehow the "religion" that God gave the children of Israel.

Judaism is what they turned God's Covenant into.

Judaism is the religion that was responsible for murdering Jesus Christ.

Judaism rejects Jesus as Messiah.

Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 2:22

Judaism is the religion that persecuted the Church, through Saul of Tarsus.

It doesn't get anymore antichrist than murdering the Christ.


The Lord made a Covenant with Abraham.

The law was added to that covenant until the Seed should come.


Judaism is not of God.


JLB

And if you will take the time to notice, I did not once, anywhere, mention the word Judaism. I spoke of the religion God established with Israel. The religion that worshiped the God Abraham knew two or three generations before Judaism was thought of. This worship of the one true God is what the Romans were trying to destroy.

 

[JLB]

Those were my daughter's words not mine she wrote that post.
That was not the point of the post. Maybe you could try reading it again, the comparison made.
Christianity is a established institution with a set of doctrines, a religion.
Marriage is also an established institution with certain expectations attached to it.

My relationship with my Lord is personal to me.
My relationship with my husband is also personal to me.

Christianity is not a religion.

Catholicism is a religion.

The Church is the Bride of Christ.

The relationship between Jesus and His bride is not a religion.


JLB

 

[JLB]

And if you will take the time to notice, I did not once, anywhere, mention the word Judaism. I spoke of the religion God established with Israel. The religion that worshiped the God Abraham knew two or three generations before Judaism was thought of. This worship of the one true God is what the Romans were trying to destroy.

God never established a religion with Israel.

If you think He did, then please share the name of this religion.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Christianity is not a religion.

Catholicism is a religion.

The Church is the Bride of Christ.

The relationship between Jesus and His bride is not a religion.


JLB

re·li·gion
noun \ri-ˈli-jən\
: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

 

[Edward]

Yep, so if there was a time of vengeance for killing the prophets like Jesus said and there was the total destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70AD.....approx. 40 yrs from the cross. That generation just as Jesus said.
I'm not saying that this has anything to do with Rev., What I am saying is that when some teachers use this scripture to try to say this great tribulation is in the future they are misusing this scripture to back up what they think Rev. is saying about a future tribulation. And seeing this scripture directly points to Daniel 9 we cannot put Daniel 9 out in the future either. How does Daniel 9 tells us what time period he is talking about in those verses, because it is talking about when the Messiah came and what He did.
If one believes that Matthew 24 is in the future, they have no choice but to believe that God is going to bring judgment on the Jews Again for what they did to the prophets, apostles, etc. Because that is what the scripture says. That is why a great tribulation came on that generation.
If one says it is a double prophecy, as some do, they have to believe the same thing. It doesn't say anything about changing hearts to God. It says it is a "day of vengeance."

That could be sister. I just get the feeling that there's more to it and that this earth hasn't seen anything yet.

 

[JLB]

re·li·gion
noun \ri-ˈli-jən\
: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

God's purpose for mankind is relationship.

The Lord told Abraham - walk with Me and be blameless.

Enoch walked with God.... And was no more, for God took him.

God's purpose is for us, is to abide in Him, so that He can express His righteous Life through us.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

That could be sister. I just get the feeling that there's more to it and that this earth hasn't seen anything yet.

I'm not saying there isn't tribulation to come. Christian people are facing grave tribulation right now. Can you imagine what they are going through right now with the ISIS beheading their children. Things could get very, very bad.
But I think to miss that this prophecy given by Jesus was very much about the Jewish people living then and what it meant for their nation and their future generations is to miss something astounding. What it meant as a sign to them who had heard the prophecy and not believed, that Jesus was truly their Messiah, that the blood of bulls and goats was nothing. Only His blood could take away their sin. Talk about shock and awe.
I think when this prophecy is corrupted in order to understand Revelation we are missing an important truth. To believe that God will punish the Jews again living now or in the even more distant future for killing the prophets of old, for killing the apostle, etc. is to say that our Lord takes vengeance and then some 2,000 yrs. later takes vengeance again for the same sin. That prophecy is directed at the Jews no one else. Unless someone is a descendant of the Jews there is no way their forefathers killed the OT prophets. So to say this prophecy is about everyone on the planet means that all people on the planet are descended from the Jews and we know that is not true.