Should women teach in the church?

[Hopeful]

Christians should behave like Christians: Love God, love your neighbor, and be led by the Holy Spirit. The Bible, especially the New Testament, is not a rule book. Modern life is very complicated and diametrically different from when the "books" of the Bible were written.

Paul made it perfectly clear that written rules (the law) should not govern the lives of Christians. Romans 12:2 sums things up perfectly "Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve what is the will of God—what is good and well-pleasing and perfect."

Isn't that a rule?
The "written rules" you refer to are the "works" of the Law of Moses.
Circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast days, etc...none of which can save a man.
But obedience to the "rules" laid down by Paul, Peter, James, and John, will result in salvation.

 

[Hopeful]

just a teacher and that only

She is a non-biblical teacher.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The fact is you ARE interpreting it when you claim you know what it means when you haven't presented us with your exegesis of authentein in 1 Tim 2:12 (REB).

Oz

Good grief, Oz, the verse reflects the very meaning of the word! No interpretation needed!

1 Timothy 2:11-14
11A woman must learn in quietness and full submissiveness. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; she is to remain quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. 14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression.

The woman who has authority over a man in the church has seized an authority that she, by reason of the creation account, does not have. She can not have that authority, because it does not belong to her. So if she does have it she has seized it, or usurped it. Thus the use of the word "authenteō ". It's an inappropriately secured and imposed authority. One that she, by the nature of things, does not have.

 

[JLB]

Sounds good, and biblical, to me.

Notice the brother in Christ continues to remain a brother in Christ.

 

[JLB]

It's an inappropriately secured and imposed authority. One that she, by the nature of things, does not have.

it’s an inappropriately and “self” imposed authority for sure, if the woman takes it upon herself to exalt herself into a position of authority over a man.


This is exactly what Lucifer did; he desired a position of authority that was not his to occupy.

This principle also holds true for men in the Church, as well.


See Korah.



JLB

 

[Edward]

She is a non-biblical teacher.

I've heard a lot of Joyce Meyers has to say and I see no fault with her. She doesn't know everything, but who does? She is wrong on certain points but non salvific points so to little consequence.

That's just gossip you heard. I'm not holding her up as something special, but she is ok.

 

[jaybo]

Isn't that a rule?
The "written rules" you refer to are the "works" of the Law of Moses.
Circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast days, etc...none of which can save a man.
But obedience to the "rules" laid down by Paul, Peter, James, and John, will result in salvation.

This is simply a matter of terminology. Rules and laws are essentially the same thing. Obedience to the apostles "rules" will not result in salvation. That is just another way of saying that you're saved by "works".

 

[Cooper]

Good grief, Oz, the verse reflects the very meaning of the word! No interpretation needed!

1 Timothy 2:11-14
11A woman must learn in quietness and full submissiveness. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; she is to remain quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. 14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression.

The woman who has authority over a man in the church has seized an authority that she, by reason of the creation account, does not have. She can not have that authority, because it does not belong to her. So if she does have it she has seized it, or usurped it. Thus the use of the word "authenteō ". It's an inappropriately secured and imposed authority. One that she, by the nature of things, does not have.

Paul was intent on integrating Jews into the Christian church.
.

 

[Edward]

This is simply a matter of terminology. Rules and laws are essentially the same thing. Obedience to the apostles "rules" will not result in salvation. That is just another way of saying that you're saved by "works".

But...if you are truely born again and carry the seed of God within you, you will most certainly produce fruit for the Kingdom. This means you will want to do everythng the most pleasing way to God and this includes not breaking the rules He intended from the beginning.

This is the light that will shine unto others. That guy not only talks the talk but he walks the walk too. But it doesn't mean that Salvation is based on works because it is not. It is still a gift. It is up to us to nurture the God seed and feed our spirit and if we do the presence grows.

So in my mind, not abiding by the rules is the same as not having the seed of God within you. I don't think a good tree can bear bad fruit.

 

[Andy Kadir-Buxton]

I just posted this on another Christian forum and decided it should also be posted here...

Let's discuss this: women are without question equal to men in all matters mental, emotional, and spiritual. What reason can there possibly be for a woman not to hold any and every position in the church? Women are as much a part of the body of Christ as men; there can't be any debate about that. So, unless people are putting themselves back under some new form of the law, there cannot be any discrimination in the body of Christ based on gender.

I see no reason that women can't perform any role in the Body of Christ, as it's only extreme physical tasks that (most) women can't do as well as men. Mental and spiritual tasks are within the ability and reach of all regardless of gender.

You might want to ponder this part of John's gospel...

"Jesus said to her, “Mary.”

She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them that he had said these things to her." John 20:16-18

This is one of the most important tasks ever given to any person in all of history! Jesus chose one particular person to announce His resurrection: a woman!!! A WOMAN!!! How could the principle of a woman's role in the body of Christ be any clearer???

It is time to drop the false idea that women can't perform any and every role in the church. If Jesus trusted a woman to deliver the most important message ever given in history, the issue is resolved.

 

[Cooper]

Nice post Andy, #490, and as we all know, everyone is equal in the sight of God.

The trouble is Paul's necessary compromise with the Jews has backfired in a way he never intended and has tarnished the universality of Christianity.
.

 

[Cooper]

But...if you are truely born again and carry the seed of God within you, you will most certainly produce fruit for the Kingdom. This means you will want to do everythng the most pleasing way to God and this includes not breaking the rules He intended from the beginning.

This is the light that will shine unto others. That guy not only talks the talk but he walks the walk too. But it doesn't mean that Salvation is based on works because it is not. It is still a gift. It is up to us to nurture the God seed and feed our spirit and if we do the presence grows.

So in my mind, not abiding by the rules is the same as not having the seed of God within you. I don't think a good tree can bear bad fruit.

Spiritually, there is no difference between men and women.
.

 

[jaybo]

Spiritually, there is no difference between men and women.
.

Very, very true!!!

 

[God Is My Judge]

The Bible does say otherwise...

Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

If there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus then why apply a 1st Century rule to 2022? Are we under a new law or still under grace?

Refers to the spirit which is in both men and women of faith.There are no distinctions concerning that. God shows no partiality concerning who He shares His spirit with. However, what there is a pecking order concerning the vessel. A woman is the weaker vessel, it is befitting a man to lead based on presence of physical strength and delivery of messages. God is a masculine being after all and Wisdom who is the first of His creations is called She , Her, Sister, Mother , Bride- a feminie spirit. "Christ has become our wisdom" which means 1. Wisdom came to be through Him because He is the Creator,2.Become our access to because being in Him makes like Him and she becomes our mother , sister, bride as the OT scriptures teach. It is prophesied that Wisdom will dwell on earth with men. That is another discussion because it was fullfilled.

Though scripture says a man is the presbyter of a church it does not say a woman cannot teach. But rather if married to a presbyter she is not to speak over him publically in church or home life because just as a male lion is king a man in Christ is a king and she his queen. She is to rather , in private , correct and share her wisdom. A woman can even teach those she may be responsible for to bring to Christ. Paul has praised women called to that service, in his letters. Once an assembly is set up, the natural order would eventually evolve as the Spirit of God moves through the congregation. She's like a mother Mary in the minor. It was after all a Woman who was commissioned to do the greatest thing a woman can be commissioned to do -conceive, carry, bear and raise the Christ! And she is Blessed because she obeyed the word of God from the moment the word was heard by her-" Let it be done according to your word spoken to me". A commission to be blessed among women! So, a woman can teach.
Concerning a wife and her presbyter husband, if he misspoke or did not understand some scripture properly but she does, she can speak to him- correct and teach him discretely between the two. However, a woman is not simply subject to every and any man not her husband concerning spirtual matters. I have been in forums where men think they have authority over every and any woman who rolls in. It's a forum! Men can't Lord over every woman. She is not every man's wife and not every woman is part of his household and a forum is not church.

 

[Hopeful]

Notice the brother in Christ continues to remain a brother in Christ.

The scripture doesn't say "brother in Christ".
It just says "brother" which can mean a couple of things.
If a brother in Christ sinned against me, it would indicate he is still walking in the flesh and not in the Spirit like Christians do..
The sin shows he has a different father than I.
His sin would need to be brought before the church.
I can forgive it, but his situation speaks of deeper problems.

 

[Hopeful]

I've heard a lot of Joyce Meyers has to say and I see no fault with her. She doesn't know everything, but who does? She is wrong on certain points but non salvific points so to little consequence.

That's just gossip you heard. I'm not holding her up as something special, but she is ok.

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
She is not of God.

 

[Hopeful]

This is simply a matter of terminology. Rules and laws are essentially the same thing. Obedience to the apostles "rules" will not result in salvation. That is just another way of saying that you're saved by "works".

If Paul tells us not to lie, commit adultery, or get drunk, but we do anyway, do you believe we will be saved?
Or has our supposedly dead flesh raised its ugly head showing we have not been reborn?
Obey Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and John, and live forever.
Disobey, and suffer a second death.
I really hope your fear of doing anything to "save yourself" doesn't result in your condemnation.
YOU have to tell the truth in order to be saved.
YOU must remain monogamous in order to be saved.
YOU must buy instead of steal in order to be saved.
The false anti-works crowd has brought many into condemnation already, so please don't fall into their trap.
The only works Paul wrote against were the works of the Law.
Circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, sabbath keeping, etc.
They will not save anyone.
But telling the truth and remaining in love with God and neighbor will save you.

 

[Hopeful]

Paul was intent on integrating Jews into the Christian church.
.

That doesn't make any sense, as the Jews were in the church first.

 

[Hopeful]

Nice post Andy, #490, and as we all know, everyone is equal in the sight of God.

The trouble is Paul's necessary compromise with the Jews has backfired in a way he never intended and has tarnished the universality of Christianity.
.

Have a baby, and then tell me boys and girls are equals.

 

[Hopeful]

Refers to the spirit which is in both men and women of faith.There are no distinctions concerning that. God shows no partiality concerning who He shares His spirit with. However, what there is a pecking order concerning the vessel. A woman is the weaker vessel, it is befitting a man to lead based on presence of physical strength and delivery of messages. God is a masculine being after all and Wisdom who is the first of His creations is called She , Her, Sister, Mother , Bride- a feminie spirit. "Christ has become our wisdom" which means 1. Wisdom came to be through Him because He is the Creator,2.Become our access to because being in Him makes like Him and she becomes our mother , sister, bride as the OT scriptures teach. It is prophesied that Wisdom will dwell on earth with men. That is another discussion because it was fullfilled.

Though scripture says a man is the presbyter of a church it does not say a woman cannot teach. But rather if married to a presbyter she is not to speak over him publically in church or home life because just as a male lion is king a man in Christ is a king and she his queen. She is to rather , in private , correct and share her wisdom. A woman can even teach those she may be responsible for to bring to Christ. Paul has praised women called to that service, in his letters. Once an assembly is set up, the natural order would eventually evolve as the Spirit of God moves through the congregation. She's like a mother Mary in the minor. It was after all a Woman who was commissioned to do the greatest thing a woman can be commissioned to do -conceive, carry, bear and raise the Christ! And she is Blessed because she obeyed the word of God from the moment the word was heard by her-" Let it be done according to your word spoken to me". A commission to be blessed among women! So, a woman can teach.
Concerning a wife and her presbyter husband, if he misspoke or did not understand some scripture properly but she does, she can speak to him- correct and teach him discretely between the two. However, a woman is not simply subject to every and any man not her husband concerning spirtual matters. I have been in forums where men think they have authority over every and any woman who rolls in. It's a forum! Men can't Lord over every woman. She is not every man's wife and not every woman is part of his household and a forum is not church.

Scripture DOES say she cannot teach men. (1 Tim 2:12)