Should women teach in the church?

[jaybo]

Scripture DOES say she cannot teach men. (1 Tim 2:12)

a) If you're going to quote Scripture, do so accurately.
b) Paul said "I do not permit...". This says nothing about a woman's ability to teach.
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."
c) We are not living in the 1st Century CE.
d) Paul did not write law.
e) Taking a single verse to prove doctrine is nonsense.

 

[JLB]

If a brother in Christ sinned against me, it would indicate he is still walking in the flesh and not in the Spirit like Christians do..

So you agree brothers in Christ can indeed walk in the flesh and still be a brother in Christ?

 

[Cooper]

That doesn't make any sense, as the Jews were in the church first.

Otherwise, any changes to their traditions, and they would be gone.
.

 

[Cooper]

Have a baby, and then tell me boys and girls are equals.

Spiritually, we are the same, and God looks on the heart, not the flesh.
.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Scripture DOES say she cannot teach men. (1 Tim 2:12)

If you are a woman and are teaching clearly, you are one who should not because you think the scriptures are a house divided. Timothy is speaking to an already established audience an assembly. He is not contradicting Paul nor any other part of NT scripture. As well nor have I. Unlike your response, I conveyed the whole picture and did pretext scripture with my answer as you have done. Clearly, if a woman, Paul would not have been commending you on bringing people to the House of God nor for sustaining it.

Timothy is speaking to the assembly where the pecking order is established. Only an unstable person would believe, all men have authority over any one woman. In the House of the Lord, when the Presbyter or Priest is teaching, she is to learn in silence not speaking out during. If she disagrees, and knows something different to be true, nowhere does it say she cannot tell her husband who may not be a presbyter or priest per-say but a congregant. Get the picture?

I would not during mass speak out against the Priest or Presbyter over the congregation. I would learn in silence as Timothy says but he did not say I could not discuss my views with my husband and that he could not then discuss it with the priest of presbyter. God's word is not a kingdom divided against itself. You, due to unstableness distort scripture to your demise. You should repent. Timothy is teaching about etiquette and decorum befitting of a lady of God.
Don't pretext when full context can only be known when showing fully the context in which Timothy is speaking. Besides, all of 1Timothy 2: is a call to prayer. Sometimes words are better left unsaid, and silence speaks volumes because prayer at that time is the answer. That is why I pray for the priest. I will pray for you as well, since words spoken and written you misconstrued.
1 Timothy 2:
A Call to Prayer

1First of all, then, I urge that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be offered for everyone— 2for kings and all those in authority—so that we may lead tranquil and quiet lives in all godliness and dignity. 3This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.

7For this reason I was appointed as a preacher, an apostle, and a faithful and true teacher of the Gentiles. I am telling the truth; I am not lying about anything. 8Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands, without anger or dissension.

Instructions to Women

9Likewise, I want the women to adorn themselves with respectable apparel, with modesty, and with self-control, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, as is proper for women who profess to worship God.

11A woman must learn in quietness and full submissiveness. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; she is to remain quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. 14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression. 15Women, however, will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

 

[jaybo]

Otherwise, any changes to their traditions, and they would be gone.
.

Paul was a Jew, as was Jesus, all the apostles, and all the disciples/followers. Gentiles came in later. Hence, Paul had to write special instructions about what Gentiles had to do or not do as church members. Despite centuries of gentile propaganda, Christianity was founded and governed by Jews for quite a while.

 

[Cooper]

Scripture DOES say she cannot teach men. (1 Tim 2:12)

Those are Paul's rules. He says "I do not permit it."
.

 

[jaybo]

Have a baby, and then tell me boys and girls are equals.

Boys and girls (males and females) are equals. I have two children and two grandchildren. They are all equals in my heart and in the Lord's.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Scripture DOES say she cannot teach men. (1 Tim 2:12)

A woman of God should not speak over a MAN OF GOD. That is what it means. When the normal season is going on that is the pecking order. However, if you know your bible, during extreme times it is a WOMAN who must set things straight that the natural order be reestablished. That is why we have Ruth, Esther, Judith , John the Baptist' mother who spoke out in the congregation concerning the naming of her baby and MOTHER MARY, within whom began Christianity. Which she was commissioned to nurture. Once grown and independent of His mother she followed Christ. Once he was done following His mother everywhere, learning from her wisdom given through full grace, she followed Him when the season changed.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Nice post Andy, #490, and as we all know, everyone is equal in the sight of God.

The trouble is Paul's necessary compromise with the Jews has backfired in a way he never intended and has tarnished the universality of Christianity.
.

The scriptures are not a house divided. Nothing Paul spoke is backfire.
2 Peter 3:
Final Exhortations
…15Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[God Is My Judge]

This is simply a matter of terminology. Rules and laws are essentially the same thing. Obedience to the apostles "rules" will not result in salvation. That is just another way of saying that you're saved by "works".

Now that's a bunch of poppycock!
John 20:
Jesus Appears to the Disciples
…21Again Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so also I am sending you.” 22When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.”…
Matthew 28:
The Great Commission
…18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”…

The apostles' rules are Christ' rules. Don't know what you are reading.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Have a baby, and then tell me boys and girls are equals.

Oh boya! As my husband says " write your name in the snow and tell me we are the same". LOL! Don't we have enough of this wanting to be the other sex or which sex is better etc.... stuff in the world that supposed people of God need to be popping off about it? Clearly, a woman is the co-hire of the grace of life. Husbands should respect that, that their prayers be not hindered. He is to protect her as his own body, that would include her psyche. Respect! Not complicated.

 

[jerry63935]

Those are Paul's rules. He says "I do not permit it."
.

wait you just denied all of paul writing

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

 

[Cooper]

wait you just denied all of paul writing

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

You would be better looking on the forums to find the "slight of man."
.

 

[Cooper]

The scriptures are not a house divided. Nothing Paul spoke is backfire.
2 Peter 3:
Final Exhortations
…15Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Paul wrote different things to different churches depending on the problems they were experiencing.
.

 

[Hopeful]

a) If you're going to quote Scripture, do so accurately.
b) Paul said "I do not permit...". This says nothing about a woman's ability to teach.
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."

You are correct, but my mention ability at all if it is forbidden by the Lord's apostle?

c) We are not living in the 1st Century CE.

The devil is in charge of moving man away from Godliness.
He is doing a pretty good job of making pertinent things unimportant.

d) Paul did not write law.

Absolutely correct.
He did, however, write a whole lot of teachings, admonissions, and exhortations, for our edification.

e) Taking a single verse to prove doctrine is nonsense.

Agreed, especially when trying to annul an apostle's teachings.
He also wrote..."If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." (1 Cor 14:37)
Why not just acknowledge that Paul's writings are the commandments of the Lord?

 

[Hopeful]

So you agree brothers in Christ can indeed walk in the flesh and still be a brother in Christ?

Not at all.
Sin shows who their father is, but those "in Christ" have another Father.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Paul wrote different things to different churches depending on the problems they were experiencing.
.

Nice try. Nothing backfired ever, nor did he ever contradict himself or God.

 

[Hopeful]

Otherwise, any changes to their traditions, and they would be gone.
.

Why?
There were plenty of changes, but Jews kept believing.
The priesthood had been eclipsed.
Temple worship was nullified.
Days of atonement were no longer necessary.
Circumcision was "past tense".
Dietary rules were nixed.
All of the "shadows" had been fulfilled by Christ.

 

[Hopeful]

Spiritually, we are the same, and God looks on the heart, not the flesh.
.

Spiritually we are the same.
But women were made for men, and not men for women.
That is never going to change.
We will be equal when men can bear babies.