The abomination of desolation

[Shilohsfoal]

Coop
I have quoted Jesus saying he will come after the tribulation.
You claim Jesus will come before the tribulation but you still have not showed anyone on this board one single verse that says Jesus will come before the tribulation.
Thats because there is no verse .You just wont admit it.

You have quoted about God's wrath but your not saying your pre wrath,you say your pre trib.Two completly different things.

 

[veteran]

Shilohsfoal,

I've been seeing some new modified ideas joined with the old Dispensationalism of the late 1800's, and there's some guy named Stam associated with some of it. It tries to create the false idea of two different Gospels, one for the Jews and another for Gentiles, which is part of the old Dispensationalism of separating Israelites apart from a supposed Gentile Church.

This is why they separate even the NT Books, claiming that only Paul's writings are meant for Gentiles, and the rest of the NT Books are meant only for Israel. In that they don't even recognize the Gospel Books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John as applying to Gentiles.

ALL that is a doctrine of men, and is designed to support the false idea of a pre-trib rapture. That's why they have to try and separate Christ's Church into two parts, because there's abundant Scripture evidence to show elect Israelites go through the tribulation, like the 144,000 of Rev.7.

So their theories all revolve around the Gentile Church being raptured out prior to the tribulation while Israelite believers are Left-behind to go through the tribulation.

But in reality per God's Word, there is no such ideas, for Christ's Body was not separated into one Church for Israelites, and another for Gentiles in the Book of Acts, and nor has that changed today. Paul's Message was just the opposite, and instead about the joining together of Gentile believers in with Israelite believers, both together making up one Body in Christ of the "commonwealth of Israel" per Ephesians 2. This is why it is silly to try and create two different times of Christ's coming with two separate times of the rapture of the saints, for that is actually preaching the lie that Christ's Body is not one.

Those on the false Dispensational doctrines have simply been lied to, and have put their trust on a false hope that is not written in God's Word, for Scripture can only be found in God's Word declaring Christ's coming is AFTER the great tribulation, and not at any other time.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Shilohsfoal,

I've been seeing some new modified ideas joined with the old Dispensationalism of the late 1800's, and there's some guy named Stam associated with some of it. It tries to create the false idea of two different Gospels, one for the Jews and another for Gentiles, which is part of the old Dispensationalism of separating Israelites apart from a supposed Gentile Church.

This is why they separate even the NT Books, claiming that only Paul's writings are meant for Gentiles, and the rest of the NT Books are meant only for Israel. In that they don't even recognize the Gospel Books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John as applying to Gentiles.

ALL that is a doctrine of men, and is designed to support the false idea of a pre-trib rapture. That's why they have to try and separate Christ's Church into two parts, because there's abundant Scripture evidence to show elect Israelites go through the tribulation, like the 144,000 of Rev.7.

So their theories all revolve around the Gentile Church being raptured out prior to the tribulation while Israelite believers are Left-behind to go through the tribulation.

But in reality per God's Word, there is no such ideas, for Christ's Body was not separated into one Church for Israelites, and another for Gentiles in the Book of Acts, and nor has that changed today. Paul's Message was just the opposite, and instead about the joining together of Gentile believers in with Israelite believers, both together making up one Body in Christ of the "commonwealth of Israel" per Ephesians 2. This is why it is silly to try and create two different times of Christ's coming with two separate times of the rapture of the saints, for that is actually preaching the lie that Christ's Body is not one.

Those on the false Dispensational doctrines have simply been lied to, and have put their trust on a false hope that is not written in God's Word, for Scripture can only be found in God's Word declaring Christ's coming is AFTER the great tribulation, and not at any other time.

They sure are going through great legths to support something that is not written.The only thing I see seperating the jewish christians that are pesecuted from me is we live in different countries .They have to deal with antichrists where I do not.Not that I envy being spit on.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

coop, the day of the Lord is not the great tribulation. it comes after the great tribulation.

Here is scripture to show you that those " taken" are destroyed. in matt 24
You were already shown this but it is very important. We cannot just look at one greek word and then choose the meaning we like and ignore the context.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,


Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Clearly those that got " took all away" were those who did not know until the flood came because they were eating and drinking. We see in Rev 14 the same thing. When the earth is reaped the wicked are " cast into the winepress of the wrath of God". They are the only ones we are told specifically in that chapter where they are going- Into the wrath of God.

Now as far as the Day of the Lord and the great tribulation, they are totally differnt events. The great tribulation is marked by the increased persecution of the saints- the betraying of us by other christians who departed from the faith, and the revealing of the son of perdition in this way, and the abomination of desolation.-

The Day of the Lord follows these events and is the wrath of God, this is marked by the signs of the Sun and Moon being darkened ( turned to blood) theheavens shaking, stars falling from heaven,great earthquake, and the heavens rollin u p like a scroll.

 

[lecoop]

Shilohsfoal,

I've been seeing some new modified ideas joined with the old Dispensationalism of the late 1800's, and there's some guy named Stam associated with some of it. It tries to create the false idea of two different Gospels, one for the Jews and another for Gentiles, which is part of the old Dispensationalism of separating Israelites apart from a supposed Gentile Church.

This is why they separate even the NT Books, claiming that only Paul's writings are meant for Gentiles, and the rest of the NT Books are meant only for Israel. In that they don't even recognize the Gospel Books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John as applying to Gentiles.

ALL that is a doctrine of men, and is designed to support the false idea of a pre-trib rapture. That's why they have to try and separate Christ's Church into two parts, because there's abundant Scripture evidence to show elect Israelites go through the tribulation, like the 144,000 of Rev.7.

So their theories all revolve around the Gentile Church being raptured out prior to the tribulation while Israelite believers are Left-behind to go through the tribulation.

But in reality per God's Word, there is no such ideas, for Christ's Body was not separated into one Church for Israelites, and another for Gentiles in the Book of Acts, and nor has that changed today. Paul's Message was just the opposite, and instead about the joining together of Gentile believers in with Israelite believers, both together making up one Body in Christ of the "commonwealth of Israel" per Ephesians 2. This is why it is silly to try and create two different times of Christ's coming with two separate times of the rapture of the saints, for that is actually preaching the lie that Christ's Body is not one.

Those on the false Dispensational doctrines have simply been lied to, and have put their trust on a false hope that is not written in God's Word, for Scripture can only be found in God's Word declaring Christ's coming is AFTER the great tribulation, and not at any other time.

Strange, I believe in a pre-70th week rapture, yet I don't believe any of that stuff. We are grafted in, as an unnatural branch. But Paul writes that we will not take place in the "sudden destruction" because we have no appointment with His wrath.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

coop, the day of the Lord is not the great tribulation. it comes after the great tribulation.

Here is scripture to show you that those " taken" are destroyed. in matt 24
You were already shown this but it is very important. We cannot just look at one greek word and then choose the meaning we like and ignore the context.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,


Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Clearly those that got " took all away" were those who did not know until the flood came because they were eating and drinking. We see in Rev 14 the same thing. When the earth is reaped the wicked are " cast into the winepress of the wrath of God". They are the only ones we are told specifically in that chapter where they are going- Into the wrath of God.

Now as far as the Day of the Lord and the great tribulation, they are totally differnt events. The great tribulation is marked by the increased persecution of the saints- the betraying of us by other christians who departed from the faith, and the revealing of the son of perdition in this way, and the abomination of desolation.-

The Day of the Lord follows these events and is the wrath of God, this is marked by the signs of the Sun and Moon being darkened ( turned to blood) theheavens shaking, stars falling from heaven,great earthquake, and the heavens rollin u p like a scroll.

That is all theory, but does it follow the scriptures? It does not. Paul shows us another taking, or snatching away, in 1 Thes 4:17. And you can be sure it is the good guys that are snatched, for they are "in christ."

John shows us that the midpoint of the week is in chapter 11, for we see the woman fleeing into the wilderness (Just what Jesus told them to do when the see the abomination) right after the 7th trumpet is sounded. "Those days" of great tribulation come some time AFTER the abomination. He has to have time to get the mark set up, but the second beast has to come even before that. So the most intense days of GT may not be until Rev. 16, about the time the first vail is poured out.

John also shows us at the 6th seal, the the day of the Lord is ABOUT TO BEGIN. It makes far more sense that it begins with the next event, not 3 1/2 years later. Therefore, the day of the Lord will begin with the 7th seal, and the trumpets that follow. What we see then, is that Satan's' wrath is going on down here, while God's wrath is being poured out from heaven. That is just what is written. We must then base our theories on what John actually wrote; not on some book or sermon.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Strange, I believe in a pre-70th week rapture, yet I don't believe any of that stuff. We are grafted in, as an unnatural branch. But Paul writes that we will not take place in the "sudden destruction" because we have no appointment with His wrath.

Coop

We know you say you are not appointed to wrath yet you say the elect of God is appointed to wrath.
You say God cares about you enough that you shouldnt ever be persecuted because your a gentile yet you say the saints of God shall suffer the wrath of God because they are jewish.

Does it feel good to be a gentile=heathen?

 

[lecoop]

Strange, I believe in a pre-70th week rapture, yet I don't believe any of that stuff. We are grafted in, as an unnatural branch. But Paul writes that we will not take place in the "sudden destruction" because we have no appointment with His wrath.

Coop

We know you say you are not appointed to wrath yet you say the elect of God is appointed to wrath.
You say God cares about you enough that you shouldnt ever be persecuted because your a gentile yet you say the saints of God shall suffer the wrath of God because they are jewish.

Does it feel good to be a gentile=heathen?

Well, it is a sad thing that EVERYONE does not come to Christ, for "He is not willing that any should parish..."

Acts 14:19
And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.

Acts 17:5
But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

Acts 18:12
And when Gallio was the deputy of Achaia, the Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat,

Acts 23:12
And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound themselves under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had killed Paul.

1 Corinthians 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 27:25
Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Luke 11:50
That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

Notice the paradigm:

7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

On one hand, God's plan is to scatter [break, shatter, crush, breaking in pieces]the power of the Holy people, speaking of the Hebrews; while on the other hand, the Gentile church as no appoinment with His wrath.

This is not my idea; it is God's plan.

Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Well, it is a sad thing that EVERYONE does not come to Christ, for "He is not willing that any should parish..."

Acts 14:19
And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.

Acts 17:5
But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

Acts 18:12
And when Gallio was the deputy of Achaia, the Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat,

Acts 23:12
And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound themselves under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had killed Paul.

1 Corinthians 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 27:25
Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Luke 11:50
That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

Notice the paradigm:

7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

On one hand, God's plan is to scatter [break, shatter, crush, breaking in pieces]the power of the Holy people, speaking of the Hebrews; while on the other hand, the Gentile church as no appoinment with His wrath.

This is not my idea; it is God's plan.

Coop

Its not God's plan to take his saints out of this world .That is your plan.
Its God's plan to plague Egypt while his people are still there.Even before they recieve the land promised to them.Yes the Egyptians shall treat his people poorly and thats putting it mildly ,but Pharoah and his army shall be destroyed and God's people shall be deliverd.Then God's people shall inherit the land promised to them.

Your plan is to cause as much confusion as possible .

 

[lecoop]

Well, it is a sad thing that EVERYONE does not come to Christ, for "He is not willing that any should parish..."

Acts 14:19
And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.

Acts 17:5
But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

Acts 18:12
And when Gallio was the deputy of Achaia, the Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat,

Acts 23:12
And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound themselves under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had killed Paul.

1 Corinthians 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 27:25
Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Luke 11:50
That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

Notice the paradigm:

7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

On one hand, God's plan is to scatter [break, shatter, crush, breaking in pieces]the power of the Holy people, speaking of the Hebrews; while on the other hand, the Gentile church as no appoinment with His wrath.

This is not my idea; it is God's plan.

Coop

Its not God's plan to take his saints out of this world .That is your plan.
Its God's plan to plague Egypt while his people are still there.Even before they recieve the land promised to them.Yes the Egyptians shall treat his people poorly and thats putting it mildly ,but Pharoah and his army shall be destroyed and God's people shall be deliverd.Then God's people shall inherit the land promised to them.

Your plan is to cause as much confusion as possible .

You want to rewrite 1 Thes. 4:17, and John 14:1-3. How is that working for you?
Apparentely you have no understanding of dispensations.

Do you undertstand that God has been LIMITED in what He could accomplish on earth, for the last 6000 years? Do you understand why? Satan has been the god of this world, and the kingdoms of the world have been under his authority. God has not had his will on earth for 6000 years. Where could God have taken the Jews from Egypt? NO ONE could get into heaven until Jesus died and rose from the dead. So if God had removed them, the only destination would have been hades: so not His first choice.

God certainly has the authority to take HIS PEOPLE off this planet, as he has shown us many places in His word. And He will do that BEFORE the 70th week begins. That week as NOTHING to do with the church. It is about and for the HEBREWS, the descendants of Jacob. It is God's plan to totally shatter, and destroy their power, so they have no other choice but to call on God.

You will never understand these things if you approach the end times with preconceived glasses on.

After the 7th trumpet, everything changes: the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord, and THEN He will have full authority to do as He desires. Then it will be the dispensation of God on earth,the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

You want to rewrite 1 Thes. 4:17, and John 14:1-3. How is that working for you?
Apparentely you have no understanding of dispensations.

Do you undertstand that God has been LIMITED in what He could accomplish on earth, for the last 6000 years? Do you understand why? Satan has been the god of this world, and the kingdoms of the world have been under his authority. God has not had his will on earth for 6000 years. Where could God have taken the Jews from Egypt? NO ONE could get into heaven until Jesus died and rose from the dead. So if God had removed them, the only destination would have been hades: so not His first choice.

God certainly has the authority to take HIS PEOPLE off this planet, as he has shown us many places in His word. And He will do that BEFORE the 70th week begins. That week as NOTHING to do with the church. It is about and for the HEBREWS, the descendants of Jacob. It is God's plan to totally shatter, and destroy their power, so they have no other choice but to call on God.

You will never understand these things if you approach the end times with preconceived glasses on.

After the 7th trumpet, everything changes: the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord, and THEN He will have full authority to do as He desires. Then it will be the dispensation of God on earth,the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Coop

Its not untill the 7th trump that the saints inherit the promised land.But you wont be here to see it will you coop.You will be taken away.

Its a shame you think God has to take his people off the planet so that they will not suffer his wrath.He has already proven how he will do it in Egypt yet you missed the whole lesson.

John 17;15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world,but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

 

[lecoop]

You want to rewrite 1 Thes. 4:17, and John 14:1-3. How is that working for you?
Apparentely you have no understanding of dispensations.

Do you undertstand that God has been LIMITED in what He could accomplish on earth, for the last 6000 years? Do you understand why? Satan has been the god of this world, and the kingdoms of the world have been under his authority. God has not had his will on earth for 6000 years. Where could God have taken the Jews from Egypt? NO ONE could get into heaven until Jesus died and rose from the dead. So if God had removed them, the only destination would have been hades: so not His first choice.

God certainly has the authority to take HIS PEOPLE off this planet, as he has shown us many places in His word. And He will do that BEFORE the 70th week begins. That week as NOTHING to do with the church. It is about and for the HEBREWS, the descendants of Jacob. It is God's plan to totally shatter, and destroy their power, so they have no other choice but to call on God.

You will never understand these things if you approach the end times with preconceived glasses on.

After the 7th trumpet, everything changes: the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord, and THEN He will have full authority to do as He desires. Then it will be the dispensation of God on earth,the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Coop

Its not untill the 7th trump that the saints inherit the promised land.But you wont be here to see it will you coop.You will be taken away.

Its a shame you think God has to take his people off the planet so that they will not suffer his wrath.He has already proven how he will do it in Egypt yet you missed the whole lesson.

John 17;15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world,but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

You are hopelessly confused. But don't worry; if you believe you will see the Beast, you surely will, for God will let you have what you are believing in. He is coming for those looking for His coming.

Since you are not looking, you probably will not even hear the trumpet. But those of us listening and waiting, will be snatched away, to a glorious time in heaven. We will be there for the marriage and marriage supper. Where will you be?

And you still don't understand what happens at the 7th trumpet. There is NOTHING there about inheriting the promised land. The 7th trumpet marks the midpoint, so I will have been in heaven for 1260+ days by that time.

Coop

 

[n2thelight]

You are hopelessly confused. But don't worry; if you believe you will see the Beast, you surely will, for God will let you have what you are believing in. He is coming for those looking for His coming.

Since you are not looking, you probably will not even hear the trumpet. But those of us listening and waiting, will be snatched away, to a glorious time in heaven. We will be there for the marriage and marriage supper. Where will you be?

And you still don't understand what happens at the 7th trumpet. There is NOTHING there about inheriting the promised land. The 7th trumpet marks the midpoint, so I will have been in heaven for 1260+ days by that time.

Coop

Coop,Im not understanding,which trumpet does Christ return at?You state that you will be snatched away at the sound of the trumpet,my question to you is,which one....And which one will your return from heaven with Christ be?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Since you are not looking, you probably will not even hear the trumpet. But those of us listening and waiting, will be snatched away, to a glorious time in heaven. We will be there for the marriage and marriage supper. Where will you be?

Coop

Coop
I already know who the beast is.
He is already ruling and the ten kings beside him are ruling as well.Its just hasnt been given to you to see.

 

[Hawkins]

The purpose of this planet earth is to bear good fruits, if this purpose is destroyed, the end will come. So earth is a soul harvesting place. God's church on earth, of which Jesus Christ is the Godhead, acts as a harvesting machine for human souls.

Revelation 14:15
Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."

Harvest of the earth refers to total humans souls in human history which belong to God. When they are 'ripe', the end will come.

Desolation means the 'harvest of the year' falls short of expectation as a result of the destruction of His church on earth. The destruction is not necessarily a physical one, but it will certainly be a spiritual one.

So what potentially will cause such a spiritual (or may be even physical) turning town of His church on earth which will result in losing souls? Possibly,

1) a foreign God such as allah is brought to the same status as our Christian God
In this case, our belief is no longer what the Bible teaches. Our faith is no longer what God specifies in His Holy Covenant by the blood of Jesus Christ. As a result of such a faith change, no soul can thus be saved by the Holy Covenant.

And in reality, Vatican ever reckoned that allah and the Christian God may be the same God.

Along the Bible teaching, worshiping of a foreign god is one of God's abomination. And now this abomination may potentially lead to the desolation.

2) homosexuality is widely accepted by the church
In the past decade, churches here and there started to accept homosexual couples and the blessing of their marriage. Yet, adultery is one of the most hated abomination by God. You can thus see from inside His Holy Place - God's church, that how this piece of abomination invaded the church. It is also a faith shift made recently which may potentially lead to the desolation. The church legalising sin by disregarding God's abomination and His Law and Covenant.

Matthew 24:15
"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—

3) the theory of evolution is widely accepted by the church
Since when spirituality has anything to do with the so-called 'science'?! Render what's the scientists to the scentists, and God to God.

Yet the church like Vatican actively participating in formal recognisation of 'scientific' results like evolution. Vatican acts even in a pace faster than the scientists circle itself. As evolution by far is never brought to be falsifyable to be called a science. I don't know why it has to hurry about reckoning the half-baked pseudo-'scientific' human theory. Why such a hurry, huh?

In a nutshell, evolution is an empty theory full of deception. And God hates deceit. Deceit is another most hated abomination by God. And the church is in such a hurry to compromise with men by trading off God, then what soul harvest it can bring forward? It can be the spiritual destruction of His church on earth.

When abominations of this kind keep attacking and invading our church on a daily basis and without our own clear consent awareness, one of them may finally tear the church apart. Then the end will come. And only those who endure shall be saved.

Luke 21:20
"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.

Is it now that Jerusalem(God's temple - figuratively our church) is already surrounded by the armies?


When the end comes, earth will be harvested. Which means, the resurrection will come. All the ripe fruits (saved human souls) will thus be brought to the new heaven and new earth.

Revelation 14:16
So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

 

[lecoop]

You are hopelessly confused. But don't worry; if you believe you will see the Beast, you surely will, for God will let you have what you are believing in. He is coming for those looking for His coming.

Since you are not looking, you probably will not even hear the trumpet. But those of us listening and waiting, will be snatched away, to a glorious time in heaven. We will be there for the marriage and marriage supper. Where will you be?

And you still don't understand what happens at the 7th trumpet. There is NOTHING there about inheriting the promised land. The 7th trumpet marks the midpoint, so I will have been in heaven for 1260+ days by that time.

Coop

Coop,Im not understanding,which trumpet does Christ return at?You state that you will be snatched away at the sound of the trumpet,my question to you is,which one....And which one will your return from heaven with Christ be?

There is no need for confusion: Paul said, "at the last trump."
From these words, we know there was more than one trumpet blast: it seems there was a SERIES of trumpet blasts, and Paul was zeroing in on the last of a series. Such a series is found here:

And in the seventh month, on the first [day] of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you.

It is the feast of trumpets, or Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish new year. There are a series of trumpets, with different sounds blown throughout the day. But there is one final LONG blast of the trumpet that ends the day. Paul's "last trump" would certainly fit this day and this series of trumps.

Some want to say that Paul's last trump, must be the 7th trump of Revelation. That is just not the truth. We can be quite sure that Paul did not have a CLUE about the trumpets of Revelation when He wrote. And he certainly did write from knowledge and His own life, guided by the Holy Spirit. Paul's last trump is the "trump of God," while the trumpets in Revelation are angel's trumpets.

Finally, for Revelation's 7th trumpet to be the "last trumpet," God would have to send angels around the world and gather up every trumpet, so there could NEVER be another trumpet sounded. Of course that is not going to happen. The 7th trumpet of Revelation is certainly not going to the the last trumpet blast every sounded on the earth. But, it IS the last of that particular series.

So Christ returns to get His church, at HIS OWN trumpet blast, called "the trump of God."

I am not sure there WILL be a trumpet blast when the church returns to earth WITH HIM. In fact, John does not mention a trumpet in Jesus hands as He is on the white horse: further proof that Jesus comes back TWICE; once for His church, and once for the battle of Armageddon.

Coop

 

[n2thelight]

Coop

Throughout time Christians have gone through tribulations,Christians have died from the most horrible deaths imaginable and some still are....My question to you is,why are those in the end so special as to not go through any....In other words,why does He take you all(rapturist)away but all other's in history had to suffer?

Do you even know what the tribulation is all about,if so would you care to explain....

Why do you all want to fly away,what's going to happen to those of us left here on this earth?What's the worst that can happen,is it not death,yet the Word of God says that I should not fear those who are able to kill the flesh,so tell me,what am I to be afraid of while you all are supposidly gone?

 

[Guest]

Coop I think the answer to that one is obvious. It may well be that the initial premise the argument started on is flawed and that may need re thinking. Maybe the author could rephrase the question or problem.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Coop

Throughout time Christians have gone through tribulations,Christians have died from the most horrible deaths imaginable and some still are....My question to you is,why are those in the end so special as to not go through any....In other words,why does He take you all(rapturist)away but all other's in history had to suffer?

Do you even know what the tribulation is all about,if so would you care to explain....

Why do you all want to fly away,what's going to happen to those of us left here on this earth?What's the worst that can happen,is it not death,yet the Word of God says that I should not fear those who are able to kill the flesh,so tell me,what am I to be afraid of while you all are supposidly gone?

While everyone is waiting to fly away, you and I will be stuck with all of the work.

 

[Vic C.]

Hey MDO, I'll be with you also. The church's job is one of charity, especially in the face of disaster. A witness for all to see, even in times of tribulation. (see my siggy)

For Coop...

There is no need for confusion: Paul said, "at the last trump."
From these words, we know there was more than one trumpet blast: it seems there was a SERIES of trumpet blasts, and Paul was zeroing in on the last of a series. Such a series is found here:

And in the seventh month, on the first [day] of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you.

It is the feast of trumpets, or Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish new year. There are a series of trumpets, with different sounds blown throughout the day. But there is one final LONG blast of the trumpet that ends the day. Paul's "last trump" would certainly fit this day and this series of trumps.

Some want to say that Paul's last trump, must be the 7th trump of Revelation. That is just not the truth. We can be quite sure that Paul did not have a CLUE about the trumpets of Revelation when He wrote. And he certainly did write from knowledge and His own life, guided by the Holy Spirit. Paul's last trump is the "trump of God," while the trumpets in Revelation are angel's trumpets.

Very good Coop, you've doing your homework on this one. :yes It seems that while your first seal theory was rubbing off on me, my belief about the "last trump" has done the same to you.