The abomination of desolation

[lecoop]

No ,the book of Daniel was not written for jews who lived thousands of years before the time of the end.
Those words were closed up to them.They could not understand it.
Daniel 12;9
And he said,Go thy way,Daniel;for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Saints are holy people.You cant be a saint apart from Christ.

The beast is already come.You just cant understand prophecy well enough to understand it is the beast.
If you didnt think you were going to fly away before the beast came ,you may be able to notice it.

Well,the beast is here and the king of the north will soon enter his esatate and you still havnt gone anywhere.Half of Daniel chapter 11 has taken place in your lifetime and there is nothing about a pre trib rapture in there.
And just to let you know.Everyone who is left behind are saints.Those who are taken are destroyed and burned in the fire.

"Saints" as a word in the KJV was used 34 times (if I counted correctly) in the Old Testament, before Jesus came. It seems clear that God disagrees with your theories.

There was certainly some of the book of Daniel that they did understand. it was only the far distant prophecies that were sealed from their understanding. It is quite certain they understood the Lions' den.

The Beast has already come? Which one? The Beast of Rev. 13 will not be revealed (as the Beast) until the midpoint of the week. How then, can you say the beast is already here? :rolling

We don't go until moments before the "sudden destruction." If you really understood Revelation, you would know that "sudden destruction" is the world wide earthquake at the 6th seal. We are gone (raptured) just as that Earthquake takes place.

:rolling Half of chapter 11 took place hundreds of years ago!! :rolling

You are speaking of the parable of the tares. Again, if you understood Revelation, you would know that takes place about 7 years after the rapture of the church. Why is it so difficult for you to believe 1 Thes. 4:17?

Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The Beast has already come? Which one? The Beast of Rev. 13 will not be revealed (as the Beast) until the midpoint of the week. How then, can you say the beast is already here? :rolling

Coop

The beast of chapter 13 has already been revealed to me.You just keep waiting for your rapture while I watch prophecies unfold.The next prophecy to take place that I know of is Daniel 11;20.
Ive breen paying attention to these prophecies while you have been sleeping and you are laughing out loud in ignorance.
The saints will be dying at the hands of the beast while your still laughing .

 

[lecoop]

The Beast has already come? Which one? The Beast of Rev. 13 will not be revealed (as the Beast) until the midpoint of the week. How then, can you say the beast is already here? :rolling

Coop

The beast of chapter 13 has already been revealed to me.You just keep waiting for your rapture while I watch prophecies unfold.The next prophecy to take place that I know of is Daniel 11;20.
Ive breen paying attention to these prophecies while you have been sleeping and you are laughing out loud in ignorance.
The saints will be dying at the hands of the beast while your still laughing .

:rolling You are a great sourse of amusment! :rolling
I think it was Socrates that said, the ills of the whole world are caused by those who think they know, when, in fact, they don't.

Daniel 11:20 is speaking of: Seleucus IV Philopator, of the ancient Seleucid Empire. He was well known as a raiser of taxes. He was murdered by Heliodorus, who it turn was ousted by Antiochus Epiphanes.
The next verse is speaking of Antiochus:

21And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

You simple amaze me. Do you ever study into the history of these things? Did you ever study the rise and fall of the Greek Empire? Did you follow the Seleucid Empire to its final demise, when Rome finally ruled all?

Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

:rolling You are a great sourse of amusment! :rolling
I think it was Socrates that said, the ills of the whole world are caused by those who think they know, when, in fact, they don't.

Daniel 11:20 is speaking of: Seleucus IV Philopator, of the ancient Seleucid Empire. He was well known as a raiser of taxes. He was murdered by Heliodorus, who it turn was ousted by Antiochus Epiphanes.
The next verse is speaking of Antiochus:

21And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

You simple amaze me. Do you ever study into the history of these things? Did you ever study the rise and fall of the Greek Empire? Did you follow the Seleucid Empire to its final demise, when Rome finally ruled all?

Coop

Still laughing and still you have no knowledge.Ive been watching the prophecies of this chapter take place while you have been laughing at the people who pay attention to prophecy.The vile man is the antichrist .His reign is at the time of the end as it is written but you believe the time of the end was thousamds of years ago.Well I got news for you.Time went on after that king and the many that have risen since.Your interpretation is wrong and out of ignorance and pride you laugh at the truth.
Your next president is the vile man yet out of ignorance you will not understand when Obama dies.You will still laugh.As they say ,Ignorance is bliss.

 

[interpreter]

The abomination of desolation standing in the Holy Spot is of course the Dome on the Rock, which appeared exactly when Daniel said it would -- 1290 years after the daily sacrifice was taken away (by Nebuchadnezzar). It resulted in Muslims (the 7th head of the beast) trampling Jerusalem underfoot for 1260 years.

 

[veteran]

The "abomination of desolation" is what our Lord Jesus showed it is per the Book of Daniel, an idol abomination placed inside a Jewish temple. This is why some Islamic clerics today support allowing today's orthodox Jews in Jerusalem in building another Jewish temple on the Temple Mount along with the Dome of The Rock.

The Jews are not going to go into the Dome of The Rock and worship. There are so many signs in today's Jerusalem that the rebuiding of the Jewish temple on the Temple Mount is near that it's difficult to miss.

The destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. was only a shadow, for the Western Wall of that temple complex still stands in Jerusalem to this day. Thus our Lord's Matt.24-Mark 13 prophecy that not one stone would be standing on top of another there was not fulfilled.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The "abomination of desolation" is what our Lord Jesus showed it is per the Book of Daniel, an idol abomination placed inside a Jewish temple. This is why some Islamic clerics today support allowing today's orthodox Jews in Jerusalem in building another Jewish temple on the Temple Mount along with the Dome of The Rock.

The Jews are not going to go into the Dome of The Rock and worship. There are so many signs in today's Jerusalem that the rebuiding of the Jewish temple on the Temple Mount is near that it's difficult to miss.

The destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. was only a shadow, for the Western Wall of that temple complex still stands in Jerusalem to this day. Thus our Lord's Matt.24-Mark 13 prophecy that not one stone would be standing on top of another there was not fulfilled.

Why is it an abomination to put a statue in a building made by man?I see it done all the time and it has never caused desolation.

 

[veteran]

Why is it an abomination to put a statue in a building made by man?I see it done all the time and it has never caused desolation.

A statue as an ornamentation of decor is a separate issue, and even those can sometimes be questionable as to its purpose and character.

But an idol image placed in order to bow to and worship is clearly another matter. The inner holy of holies inside the Jewish temple represents God's Place. He's the only One Who is to dwell there. And per history His Presence there has never involved even an image of Himself made by man, unlike the pagan temples of the nations. Also see Ezekiel 8 and hopefully you'll understand how God feels about the placing of an "image of jealousy" that provokes Him to leave the sanctuary.

 

[n2thelight]

Coop
The rapture is not to be found in Matt 24. That is Jesus answering questions to Hebrew men still under the old Testament, for the most part speaking of the end of THEIR age, the 70th week of Daniel.

The rapture is not found there because it will not happen...You say it was written for their age,so do tell when did the following take place?

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand"

Matthew 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

Matthew 24:27 "For as the lightning cometh our to the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not have her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Matthew 24:31 "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Matthew 24:34 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Do you know what generation is being spoken of here?

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only."

What day is this,or will you continue to say it was for their time?

Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left."

Now,if you think this chapter was written to hebrew men, for their time,I can see why you are sooooo confused...

In the mean time,please tell me when the above scripture's took place.....

Coop,will you answer the above post or can you?

 

[lecoop]

Coop
The rapture is not to be found in Matt 24. That is Jesus answering questions to Hebrew men still under the old Testament, for the most part speaking of the end of THEIR age, the 70th week of Daniel.

The rapture is not found there because it will not happen...You say it was written for their age,so do tell when did the following take place?

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand"

Matthew 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

Matthew 24:27 "For as the lightning cometh our to the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not have her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Matthew 24:31 "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Matthew 24:34 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Do you know what generation is being spoken of here?

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only."

What day is this,or will you continue to say it was for their time?

Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left."

Now,if you think this chapter was written to hebrew men, for their time,I can see why you are sooooo confused...

In the mean time,please tell me when the above scripture's took place.....

Coop,will you answer the above post or can you?

Onelove, the end of THEIR age, the 70th week of Daniel is still future to us today: God is not finished with the Jews: He has made promised to them that will certainly be kept. The reason the rapture is not found in the 70th week of Daniel is self explanitory: that week is for the Jews, not for the Gentiles. And it is a week of wrath, which we are to escape, for we have no appointment with it. We are taken out BEFORE the 70th week, so no discourse on the 70th week will included the rapture.

The AoD is still future, the exact midpoint of the 70th week.

"then shall be great tribulation" will come AFTER the AoD.

"Those days" of "great tribulation" will be shortened by the vials of His wrath. They will not extend for the entire 42 months.

His coming as lightning will be some short time after the 70th week has finished. "Immediately" means not long, but "after" means after. So a few days, or maybe two weeks? Who knows?

Every Eye will see Him as He comes. Even those that pierced Him. Since we, the church are coming WITH Him, how can it be us that are gathered? We were "gathered" via the rapture 7 years previous. Therefore, this gathering is for the Jews: He will bring them all to Israel, as He promised. This is Jesus returning from the wedding. (Luke 12:36) You can be sure, He will not miss His own wedding, and neither will the church miss it.

Which Generation? I believe the generation that sees the "fig tree" bud; i.e., OUR generation, that saw Israel become a nation once again.

"That day" is which day? Of course, it is the day of His coming with lightning.

There are two times that two will be together and one taken: it will happen at the rapture, where the born again ones are taken, and it will happen at the day of His return, when he parable of the tares is fulfilled, and the lawless ones are taken.

You totally misunderstood. The 70th week is THEIR TIME too; the final week of their time. It has never been called the 70th week of Paul, or the 70th week of Gentiles. That prophecy was for the Jews, entirely, and has nothing to do with the church. God will remove the church; it will be "taken out of way" so the restraining force is removed; and then the man of sin will be revealed.

Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

[
There are two times that two will be together and one taken: it will happen at the rapture, where the born again ones are taken, and it will happen at the day of His return, when he parable of the tares is fulfilled, and the lawless ones are taken.

Coop

OK we all all know where the two shall be in a field and one taken and the other left and we already know the one that is left is saved where the one that is taken is destroyed.So where is this other scripture you speaking of ?
Do you have a verse we can read?

 

[lecoop]

[
There are two times that two will be together and one taken: it will happen at the rapture, where the born again ones are taken, and it will happen at the day of His return, when he parable of the tares is fulfilled, and the lawless ones are taken.

Coop

OK we all all know where the two shall be in a field and one taken and the other left and we already know the one that is left is saved where the one that is taken is destroyed.So where is this other scripture you speaking of ?
Do you have a verse we can read?

There are two times that the bible speaks of "one taken" and one left: Matthew and Luke.
Luke makes it plain in his verses that those taken are the evil ones. I believe this is the parable of the tares taking place.

The ones in Matthew don't give any hint of who is taken and who is left. Many think these verses are speaking of the rapture. I am not so sure. It seems to me to be talking about the same event as Luke: the coming of Jesus as John shows us, on the white horse. But it is possible that Jesus, speaking by the Holy Spirit, did make a reference to the rapture.

But when I wrote the above, I was not really talking about a specific scripture. Since at the rapture only those "in Christ" will rise, it is just common sense that some will go and some will be left behind.

Sorry, I should not has written that it was only an opinion.

Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

[There are two times that the bible speaks of "one taken" and one left: Matthew and Luke.
Luke makes it plain in his verses that those taken are the evil ones. I believe this is the parable of the tares taking place.

The ones in Matthew don't give any hint of who is taken and who is left. Many think these verses are speaking of the rapture. I am not so sure. It seems to me to be talking about the same event as Luke: the coming of Jesus as John shows us, on the white horse. But it is possible that Jesus, speaking by the Holy Spirit, did make a reference to the rapture.

But when I wrote the above, I was not really talking about a specific scripture. Since at the rapture only those "in Christ" will rise, it is just common sense that some will go and some will be left behind.

Sorry, I should not has written that it was only an opinion.

Coop

Mathew makes it clear that those who are taken are destroyed also.
Mathew also makes it clear this event takes place after the tribulation of those days.

Why cant you believe the truth coop?
Jesus spoke openly for the world to hear and hid nothing.Why cant you believe what Jesus says coop?
Why is it so easy for you to believe another mans gospel and not the gospel of Christ?

 

[lecoop]

Mathew makes it clear that those who are taken are destroyed also.
Mathew also makes it clear this event takes place after the tribulation of those days.

Why cant you believe the truth coop?
Jesus spoke openly for the world to hear and hid nothing.Why cant you believe what Jesus says coop?
Why is it so easy for you to believe another mans gospel and not the gospel of Christ?

By all means, SHOW us where Matthew tells us those taken are destroyed!
Please Prove to us by scripture WHAT event takes place AFTER the tribulation.

Did I not write, "It seems to me to be talking about the same event as Luke: the coming of Jesus?"
Yes, I did write that.

Therefore, please tell me what I am not believing.
Are you condemning me bacause I believe Paul? Well the Jews did that too. They HATED him.

Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

By all means, SHOW us where Matthew tells us those taken are destroyed!
Please Prove to us by scripture WHAT event takes place AFTER the tribulation.

Did I not write, "It seems to me to be talking about the same event as Luke: the coming of Jesus?"
Yes, I did write that.

Therefore, please tell me what I am not believing.
Are you condemning me bacause I believe Paul? Well the Jews did that too. They HATED him.

Coop

He says it one verse before he speaks of two being in the field in Mt 24;40
Mt 24;37-39
But as the days of Noah were,so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking,marrying and given in marriage,untill the day that Noah enterd into the ark,And knew not untill the flood came,and took them all away;so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Answer to question #1
Hence ,those who are taken are those who knew not untill the flood came and took them away.Noah and his family knew what was going to happen and they were not taken away.Those who were taken were destyroyed and so shall it be when Jesus comes.

Jesus said his coming would be after the tribulation.
Answer to question #2
Mt 24;29-30
Immediatly after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,and the moon shall not give her light,and the stars shall fall from heaven,and the powers of the heavenms shall be shaken.
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven;and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,and they shall see the Son of man coning in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Your not believing Jesus.He openly said he would come after the tribulation and at that time two would be standing in a field,one would be taken and the other left.
So you say you believe Paul.
Show to us what verse Paul said the coming of Jesus would be before the tribulation.

 

[lecoop]

By all means, SHOW us where Matthew tells us those taken are destroyed!
Please Prove to us by scripture WHAT event takes place AFTER the tribulation.

Did I not write, "It seems to me to be talking about the same event as Luke: the coming of Jesus?"
Yes, I did write that.

Therefore, please tell me what I am not believing.
Are you condemning me bacause I believe Paul? Well the Jews did that too. They HATED him.

Coop

He says it one verse before he speaks of two being in the field in Mt 24;40
Mt 24;37-39
But as the days of Noah were,so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking,marrying and given in marriage,untill the day that Noah enterd into the ark,And knew not untill the flood came,and took them all away;so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Answer to question #1
Hence ,those who are taken are those who knew not untill the flood came and took them away.Noah and his family knew what was going to happen and they were not taken away.Those who were taken were destyroyed and so shall it be when Jesus comes.

Jesus said his coming would be after the tribulation.
Answer to question #2
Mt 24;29-30
Immediatly after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,and the moon shall not give her light,and the stars shall fall from heaven,and the powers of the heavenms shall be shaken.
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven;and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,and they shall see the Son of man coning in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Your not believing Jesus.He openly said he would come after the tribulation and at that time two would be standing in a field,one would be taken and the other left.
So you say you believe Paul.
Show to us what verse Paul said the coming of Jesus would be before the tribulation.

By all means, SHOW us where Matthew tells us those taken are destroyed!
Please Prove to us by scripture WHAT event takes place AFTER the tribulation.

Did I not write, "It seems to me to be talking about the same event as Luke: the coming of Jesus?"
Yes, I did write that.

Therefore, please tell me what I am not believing.
Are you condemning me bacause I believe Paul? Well the Jews did that too. They HATED him.

Coop

He says it one verse before he speaks of two being in the field in Mt 24;40
Mt 24;37-39
But as the days of Noah were,so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking,marrying and given in marriage,untill the day that Noah enterd into the ark,And knew not untill the flood came,and took them all away;so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Answer to question #1
Hence ,those who are taken are those who knew not untill the flood came and took them away.Noah and his family knew what was going to happen and they were not taken away.Those who were taken were destyroyed and so shall it be when Jesus comes.

Jesus said his coming would be after the tribulation.
Answer to question #2
Mt 24;29-30
Immediatly after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,and the moon shall not give her light,and the stars shall fall from heaven,and the powers of the heavenms shall be shaken.
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven;and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,and they shall see the Son of man coning in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Your not believing Jesus.He openly said he would come after the tribulation and at that time two would be standing in a field,one would be taken and the other left.
So you say you believe Paul.
Show to us what verse Paul said the coming of Jesus would be before the tribulation.

I cannot explain why I am all thumbs and somehow hit keys that delete what I have written, but I do it over and over again. I have torn off the keys on the lower right of my keyboard for that very reason. Now I have lost all that I wrote, and must begin again.

I have always said that context must be supreme. But I left 1% because of the Greek word for "taken:" • Paralambano means "to receive near, i.e., associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); receive, take unto, take with." [Strong's G3880] http://www.velocity.net/~edju/NewsV3N16.htm

And I know of a man that was taken to heaven, and Jesus told him face to face, this same thing: that this was a special Greek word, used ONLY HERE as a "Present, Passive, Indicative" tense. The word itself is used 50 times, but I am guessing ONLY ONCE with this special tense. I believe what this man said. I believe Jesus spoke these words to him. So I will say that it is possible that in THIS ONE CASE when Jesus said one taken and one left, He was speaking of the rapture. So I will agree with you 99%, but because of this Greek word with its special tense, I will allow a 1% chance that Jesus was referring to the rapture. I have not looked through all 50, but have looked through most of them, and cannot find this present, passive, indicative tense any other time. I was not there, and I did not hear Jesus say this, but what he said Jesus said - seems to be truth. Therefore, I MUST leave some chance.

The "took" for those from the flood is a totally different word.

Of course I am believing Jesus. Of course I believe He will come AFTER the 70th week. Rev.19 proves that fact. But Paul shows us that He comes BEFORE THEN to get the church. I think it is YOU who don't believe that.

Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Of course I am believing Jesus. Of course I believe He will come AFTER the 70th week. Rev.19 proves that fact. But Paul shows us that He comes BEFORE THEN to get the church. I think it is YOU who don't believe that.

Coop

I believe Jesus when he said he would come after the tribulation.Now please show us what verse Paul states that Jesus will come before the tribulation.I would really like to read this coming in Paul's own words seeing Paul sufferd much tribulation.

 

[lecoop]

Of course I am believing Jesus. Of course I believe He will come AFTER the 70th week. Rev.19 proves that fact. But Paul shows us that He comes BEFORE THEN to get the church. I think it is YOU who don't believe that.

Coop

I believe Jesus when he said he would come after the tribulation.Now please show us what verse Paul states that Jesus will come before the tribulation.I would really like to read this coming in Paul's own words seeing Paul sufferd much tribulation.

Paul knew that his tribulation was not the great tribulation.

1 Thes 1
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Notice the paradigm here: the "they" and "them" compared to the "ye?" And notice that this comparison is concerning the day of the Lord. Paul goes on:

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Notice that the ONLY people that will see and feel the "sudden destruction" are "they" and "them."

So why don't the "us" and "we" get the sudden destruction too? It is very simple: we won't be here! Why won't we be here? The "sudden destruction" is a part of God's wrath, and "we have no appointment" with His wrath.

Please keep in mind, Paul wrote these things, RIGHT AFTER He wrote this:

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So, WHERE do we see the day of the Lord, coming like a thief in the night, in Revelation? We see it at the 6th seal. We also see the sudden destruction of the world wide earthquake. The rapture of the church is the FIRST EVENT of the 6th seal, as shown by the huge crowd without number, one chapter later. The rapture is the first event of the 6th seal, and the world wide earthquake is the second event. That is, UNLESS the signs in the sun and moon are seen before these two events.

Paul also writes:

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.


Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Paul knew that his tribulation was not the great tribulation.

1 Thes 1
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Notice the paradigm here: the "they" and "them" compared to the "ye?" And notice that this comparison is concerning the day of the Lord. Paul goes on:

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Notice that the ONLY people that will see and feel the "sudden destruction" are "they" and "them."

So why don't the "us" and "we" get the sudden destruction too? It is very simple: we won't be here! Why won't we be here? The "sudden destruction" is a part of God's wrath, and "we have no appointment" with His wrath.

Please keep in mind, Paul wrote these things, RIGHT AFTER He wrote this:

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So, WHERE do we see the day of the Lord, coming like a thief in the night, in Revelation? We see it at the 6th seal. We also see the sudden destruction of the world wide earthquake. The rapture of the church is the FIRST EVENT of the 6th seal, as shown by the huge crowd without number, one chapter later. The rapture is the first event of the 6th seal, and the world wide earthquake is the second event. That is, UNLESS the signs in the sun and moon are seen before these two events.

Paul also writes:

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.


Coop

In all that I didnt get to read where Paul said Jesus would come before the tribulation.Can you please give us the verse where Paul says Jesus will come before the tribulation?

Oh and by the way.Jesus does say he will come as a thief in the book of Revelation . It happens during the time of the 6th vial of the wrath of God.
Rev 16;15
Behold,I come as a thief.Blessed is he that watcheth,and keepeth his garmets,lest he walk naked,and they see his shame.

See how easy it is to quote something when it actully is in the bible?
Now lets see if you can do the same.

 

[lecoop]

Paul knew that his tribulation was not the great tribulation.

1 Thes 1
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Notice the paradigm here: the "they" and "them" compared to the "ye?" And notice that this comparison is concerning the day of the Lord. Paul goes on:

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Notice that the ONLY people that will see and feel the "sudden destruction" are "they" and "them."

So why don't the "us" and "we" get the sudden destruction too? It is very simple: we won't be here! Why won't we be here? The "sudden destruction" is a part of God's wrath, and "we have no appointment" with His wrath.

Please keep in mind, Paul wrote these things, RIGHT AFTER He wrote this:

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So, WHERE do we see the day of the Lord, coming like a thief in the night, in Revelation? We see it at the 6th seal. We also see the sudden destruction of the world wide earthquake. The rapture of the church is the FIRST EVENT of the 6th seal, as shown by the huge crowd without number, one chapter later. The rapture is the first event of the 6th seal, and the world wide earthquake is the second event. That is, UNLESS the signs in the sun and moon are seen before these two events.

Paul also writes:

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.


Coop

In all that I didnt get to read where Paul said Jesus would come before the tribulation.Can you please give us the verse where Paul says Jesus will come before the tribulation?

Oh and by the way.Jesus does say he will come as a thief in the book of Revelation . It happens during the time of the 6th vial of the wrath of God.
Rev 16;15
Behold,I come as a thief.Blessed is he that watcheth,and keepeth his garmets,lest he walk naked,and they see his shame.

See how easy it is to quote something when it actully is in the bible?
Now lets see if you can do the same.

I just showed you many verses, but they do take a little bit of understanding. Was the quote from 1 Thes 4:17 not clear enough for you? oh! You needed me to quote this verse to, so you could READ where Jesus comes: so sorry:

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

So is this a "coming" or is it not? If he LEAVES heaven, and approaches the earth, I say it is a COMING.

Coop