Bible Study The Adamic Sin-Nature

[Soul man]

Some have held through church history it is impossible to walk righteously or succeed to be
pure and holy by walking in the Holy Spirit, but Paul and the apostles seem to disagree.
It is the exploration of these themes that has interested me most recently, as we seem to have
lost the language of Paul, being a pure, spotless, holy, pure, loving, righteous people called to
His name and Heaven.

Yes, but we understand man and his interpretation of scripture. Seems the more people you can get to understand what you are saying, the more infallible it becomes. I would agree of course with you on Paul and the other Apostles, rightly dividing soul and spirit in the scriptures needs to be part of our understanding.

 

[Soul man]

So you think when God said ' Do not eat of the tree', and Eve told the serpant 'we should not eat of the tree', Adam and Eve had no knowledge of Good and Evil?. If Eve had no knowledge of evil how did she know eating of the tree was evil, the wrong thing to do?. Until that time they were not evil but they still knew evil like God because it come through a command. So as Jesus knew evil but did not sin and was obedient.

'Do not eat of the tree'. That is knowledge of what is wrong and right through a command.

As soon as a command is given there is the knowledge of evil.

Scripture said they were given a commandment to not eat, that is all it says. They ate and their eyes were opened, Adam being created a living soul I believe at this point recieved something from "the sinner from the beginning," a nature. With that nature "the knowledge of good and evil" began to plague all humanity from that point on.
It took the cross to free mankind from that nature, we still deal with the knowledge of good and evil. To the unsaved they still have a sin-nature, you must be in Christ to be free of the old nature and free now to recieve the nature of God which is in Christ.

A late edit: the sin problem we face as believer's is soul-mind. When we talk about flesh that is basically mind given to body to work it's magic. The miracle was in spirit, a complete exchange was made at the cross and in us the moment we believe.
Oldman out, new man in, that's spirit.
There was some renewal in mind for some when they believed, but we are to be renewed in mind.
The process of mind renewal takes all that the Father has allowed in this world.
We learn, we grow through a process of mind renewal. Nothing exists if He doesn't want it too. Contrast is a great knowing process, oil and water, day and night, law and grace, old and new. Instructors, teachers the Father puts in a life to bring them to Christ, and then start a process of developing a son. The world is a schoolhouse, and in that schoolhouse are many classrooms, many teachers, it can be a hard road but the "the suffering of this present time is not worthy to be compared to the glory which shall be revealed in you."
Knowing the plan (glory) of God goes beyond understanding.

 

[Soul man]

I still dont get it because as soon as a command is given there is knowledge of evil.

To be told not to do something and you hear it, does not make your decision whether to do it or not, evil.
Not for the innocent Adam and Eve, for today you could possibly make that argument.
The tree held "the knowledge of good and evil" and had not been tasted when they made their decision.

 

[PeterJens]

One could argue the Adam and Eve were not self aware.
One of the perceptions of self awareness is knowing how you come across and as a result
what is a good way to project and what is a bad way to project.

The fact they felt they were naked, is the point where they went, I look like this, maybe that is
not a good idea. Until this point being naked was not an issue.

Today nakedness is a problem in normal life situations. You really want to deal with people
as individuals and their personality not how they look.

 

[Soul man]

I don't see, out of knowledge attained by being a born again new creature in Christ Jesus, that the human race is even aware of a sin nature.

Hello Chopper, that is kind of the point I make. We have no understanding as babes in Christ about any such sin-nature. I was told it was me, I was the sinner, and I was but when we look at it closer you see that it was Satan that was the sinner from the beginning, not me. This is where understanding nature is so important to the believer because we live by nature. We are dependent on nature, there is no other way to live life, so I was a partaker of my nature. That made me a sinner by nature, not by my creation, not from the image and likeness of God. Nothing wrong with our creation, we just had the wrong nature. The cross cancelled out the sin-nature, and you must be born again to receive a new nature. Christians have a hard time with this because we know we still sin. Sins of the flesh are a far cry from the sin-nature. It's a mind thing now, being made complete and perfect in spirit-nature because Jesus the one we are joined to is perfect.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Hello Chopper, that is kind of the point I make. We have no understanding as babes in Christ about any such sin-nature. I was told it was me, I was the sinner, and I was but when we look at it closer you see that it was Satan that was the sinner from the beginning, not me. This is where understanding nature is so important to the believer because we live by nature. We are dependent on nature, there is no other way to live life, so I was a partaker of my nature. That made me a sinner by nature, not by my creation, not from the image and likeness of God. Nothing wrong with our creation, we just had the wrong nature. The cross cancelled out the sin-nature, and you must be born again to receive a new nature. Christians have a hard time with this because we know we still sin. Sins of the flesh are a far cry from the sin-nature. It's a mind thing now, being made complete and perfect in spirit-nature because Jesus the one we are joined to is perfect.

I agree. I am nothing like like I was until I turned to Jesus. I still remember the women and when they came in the 18 to 25 range, I could not imagine why I wanted the older girls. But if an eighteen year old had walked up too me just before my 45th birthday I would have tied to lead her to Jesus instead of to the bedroom. I was not like that one to three weeks earlier. Earnestly, God makes an immediate change in the soul of the saved.

 

[Nathan]

Hello Chopper, that is kind of the point I make. We have no understanding as babes in Christ about any such sin-nature. I was told it was me, I was the sinner, and I was but when we look at it closer you see that it was Satan that was the sinner from the beginning, not me. This is where understanding nature is so important to the believer because we live by nature. We are dependent on nature, there is no other way to live life, so I was a partaker of my nature. That made me a sinner by nature, not by my creation, not from the image and likeness of God. Nothing wrong with our creation, we just had the wrong nature. The cross cancelled out the sin-nature, and you must be born again to receive a new nature. Christians have a hard time with this because we know we still sin. Sins of the flesh are a far cry from the sin-nature. It's a mind thing now, being made complete and perfect in spirit-nature because Jesus the one we are joined to is perfect.

Some might think this is semantics, but there is a reason why we should understand what Christ did for us. He set us free from the slavery of sin, but that does not mean it will not try to entice us to go back to its bondage. When we sin we cannot just say "oh, that's my flesh - it doesn't matter". It does matter. When we sin its because we are still submitting to that sin nature instead of submitting to the new nature.

We are free to choose now, where as before we could not choose. When we choose to submit to Christ then it automatically means we choose not to submit to the sin nature. That is where there is freedom.

Gal 4:28-5:1
Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman. For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

 

[Kidron]

When we sin its because we are still submitting to that sin nature instead of submitting to the new nature.

-

Submit to Righteousness or submit to Adamic self.
Welcome to "discipleship".

 

[Soul man]

I agree. I am nothing like like I was until I turned to Jesus. I still remember the women and when they came in the 18 to 25 range, I could not imagine why I wanted the older girls. But if an eighteen year old had walked up too me just before my 45th birthday I would have tied to lead her to Jesus instead of to the bedroom. I was not like that one to three weeks earlier. Earnestly, God makes an immediate change in the soul of the saved.

Taylor, I can't wait to read the book

 

[Soul man]

Yes I think you're right it may be just semantics. When your talking about Christ as life, and the only life of the believer, lifestyle is everything.
We are never going to perfect the flesh, I don't necessarily believe that's why we were saved. Do we strive for overcoming, sure, as birthed children of God.
The overcoming one is always Christ in you. Paul writes in Gal. 2:20 that every believing sinner now has a new identity, new life.
That life is Christ, the sinner or the believer has never had a life of their own.
Always dependent on their nature, partakers of that nature.
So in Christ now we are as dead as he was at the cross, the whole world is dead in Christ, they just haven't believed.
The life now is Christ and Christ only, the only way Christ can come out of a believer is through a renewed mind. We learn Christ, we need to know this life exists because it's the only life the Father recognizes.
Paul said "in Him I live and move and have my being," if I live it's Christ."
Spontaneous living is a lifestyle that should come natural to Christians.

 

[Nathan]

Yes I think you're right it may be just semantics. When your talking about Christ as life, and the only life of the believer, lifestyle is everything.
We are never going to perfect the flesh, I don't necessarily believe that's why we were saved. Do we strive for overcoming, sure, as birthed children of God.
The overcoming one is always Christ in you. Paul writes in Gal. 2:20 that every believing sinner now has a new identity, new life.
That life is Christ, the sinner or the believer has never had a life of their own.
Always dependent on their nature, partakers of that nature.
So in Christ now we are as dead as he was at the cross, the whole world is dead in Christ, they just haven't believed.
The life now is Christ and Christ only, the only way Christ can come out of a believer is through a renewed mind. We learn Christ, we need to know this life exists because it's the only life the Father recognizes.
Paul said "in Him I live and move and have my being," if I live it's Christ."
Spontaneous living is a lifestyle that should come natural to Christians.

I sure wish it was natural.

I think sometimes we make too much of a distinction between the new life in Christ, and our current body of sin(flesh). We almost separate them to the point of disassociation. When that happens, we 'lessen' the truth that the current body of sin(flesh) can effect our new life in Christ. The renewing of the mind keeps the new life in focus, and the body of sin(flesh) from effecting it.

Rom 8:12-13
So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

We shouldn't just not 'think' about the flesh - disregarding it - we should actually reject it when it wants to take over us. It is an action to put to death the deeds it wants to do, and as you stated(and Paul states) this is done by the Spirit(Christ in us). He is the 'power' source for these actions to take place.

Heb 12:3-6
Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In your struggle against sin[flesh] you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”

We know when there is action we should take, against our flesh in the renewal of our mind, because of God's discipline. Some think that discipline is 'bad', but its really just a training. It seems hard - but only from a flesh/sin perspective. When viewed from a heavenly/new mind perspective, its a sign of true love and being a son of God.

Being 'saved' now means we have been set free from slavery. We are 'free'. That is what God wants - free men to freely worship Him. But we have to realize that the freedom can be just as deceptive as the slavery we were once in. Our old man, the flesh, will constantly try to bring us back into that slavery - we must resist it. We must not go back to it.

Rom 12:1-2
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.