The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[JLB]

We both follow the teachings of Christ.

No you said you are a Calvinist.

You follow the teaching of Calvin.


I’m a Christian.

I follow the teachings of Christ.



JLB

 

[Fastfredy0]

Do you believe the scriptures are the truth?

The scriptures are originally written are without error/true.

If you read textual criticism you can get a more detailed answer ... but I know you rely on the council of ONE (JLBism)

You know, we really ought to get a life.

Aside: I believe you to be a good Christian (thought I would put that out there given our squabbling)

 

[JLB]

you rely on the council of ONE.

I rely on the counsel of the Holy Spirit as He leads and guides me through the scriptures.



JLB

 

[JLB]

If you read textual criticism you can get a more detailed answer ... but I know you rely on the council of ONE (JLBism)

This is several times now you have misrepresented making up false statements about what I say.


I have asked for you to answer a simple question more than once and you say it’s to frustrating.


Then you come back and start again so I ask you you a question again, and again you refused to answer, saying you are not going to waste your time answering.


Is it that hard to answer?







JLB

 

[Fastfredy0]

I said reading the scriptures through the eyes of a preconceived idea is not going to help you

This is not rocket science. If I study scripture through preconceived ideas that are truth, those preconceived ideas will help.

*sigh*

 

[Fastfredy0]

This is several times now you have misrepresented making up false statements about what I say.

I think it's you not being concise in your statements and making obtuse statements that, when analyzed lead to ridiculous propositions.

Anyways, as usual this is getting us no where. End of conversation for me.

 

[JLB]

Is this topic now about salvation and/or truth and not the Atonement? Everyone has gone off subject. Understandably topics vere but this has almost two pages of off topic subject matter.

If your questions about the Atonement has been answered, great!

I answered your post. Did you see my reply?

 

[JLB]

This is not rocket science. If I study scripture through preconceived ideas that are truth, those preconceived ideas will help.

The scriptures are the truth.

Did your preconceived ideas lead you to the conclusion that we are born again before we believe the Gospel?




JLB

 

[Atonement]

No I didn't JLB. Honestly it's probably mixed in with all this other stuff that's off topic. But if you did respond, thank you. I was here only for the Atonement subject, but I suppose its been answered since this isn't going no where near the subject matter.

Thanks again JLB

 

[JLB]

I think it's you not being concise in your statements and making obtuse statements that, when analyzed lead to ridiculous propositions.

Anyways, as usual this is getting us no where. End of conversation for me.

Maybe rather than saying derogatory things about me, you could answer my questions like I answer yours.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


Those who obey Him will receive eternal salvation.


Do you believe this?


Or, do you believe those who disobey Him will receive eternal salvation?

 

[JLB]

No I didn't JLB. Honestly it's probably mixed in with all this other stuff that's off topic. But if you did respond, thank you. I was here only for the Atonement subject, but I suppose its been answered since this isn't going no where near the subject matter.

Thanks again JLB

Do you believe the atonement of Christ’s blood is received by believing the Gospel, or do you believe it is something God just does for us because He chooses; chooses to save you while choosing to send others to hell?

 

[Atonement]

Do you believe the atonement of Christ’s blood is received by believing the Gospel, or do you believe it is something God just does for us because He chooses; chooses to save you while choosing to send others to hell?

The Atonement was God's plan made back in Genesis.

 

[Atonement]

Rather we choose to accept His gift is free will

 

[brightfame52]

The Atonement of Christ accomplished the building of Christ Church !

Matt 16:18

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus here did not mean a literal church building, but His People, True believers in Him, upon the rock of He being the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and the shedding of His Blood..

Within this statement Jesus ensures believers in Himself, that is all that the Father hath given Him. His building His Church produces believers, Notice Jesus states " I will build my Church " take that freewillers, for Christ depends solely on His will and not yours to build His Church.

The word build is the greek word:

oikodomeō and means:


to build a house, erect a building

a) to build (up from the foundation)

b) to restore by building, to rebuild, repair2) metaph.

a) to found, establish

b) to promote growth in Christian wisdom, affection, grace, virtue, holiness, blessedness

c) to grow in wisdom and piety

This Ideal is conveyed in Acts 15 when James quotes scripture prophecy Acts 15:13-16

13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

This also means that Christ Church was in the OT as well..

And Christ assures us that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it !

The gates of hell cannot prevent one for whom Christ died from believing in Christ nor from going to heaven. If anyone of the church that the blood of Christ purchased as per Acts 20:28b

to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

If anyone of them perish for their sins, then the gates of hell prevailed against the Church that Christ said He would build. If anyone of that Church dies in unbelief and perish in their sins as per Jn 8:24

24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Then the gates of hell prevailed against Christ building His Church.

If one goes to hell its because the gates of hell prevailed against them, that is the devil prevailed against them.

Unbelief is due to the devil blinding us 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,

Lk 8:12

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

So yes, unbelief is due to the devil being victorious ! He prevails preventing one to believe and be saved.. Paul says this:

2 Thess 2:10

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Satan, the Devil, the gates of Hell is prevailing against such as these..

But Jesus Christ by His Atoning death will build a community of believers in Him, that shall follow Him..

He says as a complement to Matt 16:18 this Jn 12:3225

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Thats His building, His drawing all to Him that He was lifted up for as the Son of the Living God.

 

[JLB]

The Atonement of Christ accomplished the building of Christ Church !

Matt 16:18

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus here did not mean a literal church building, but His People, True believers in Him, upon the rock of He being the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and the shedding of His Blood..

Within this statement Jesus ensures believers in Himself, that is all that the Father hath given Him. His building His Church produces believers, Notice Jesus states " I will build my Church " take that freewillers, for Christ depends solely on His will and not yours to build His Church.

The word build is the greek word:

oikodomeō and means:


to build a house, erect a building

a) to build (up from the foundation)

b) to restore by building, to rebuild, repair2) metaph.

a) to found, establish

b) to promote growth in Christian wisdom, affection, grace, virtue, holiness, blessedness

c) to grow in wisdom and piety

This Ideal is conveyed in Acts 15 when James quotes scripture prophecy Acts 15:13-16

13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

This also means that Christ Church was in the OT as well..

And Christ assures us that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it !

The gates of hell cannot prevent one for whom Christ died from believing in Christ nor from going to heaven. If anyone of the church that the blood of Christ purchased as per Acts 20:28b

to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

If anyone of them perish for their sins, then the gates of hell prevailed against the Church that Christ said He would build. If anyone of that Church dies in unbelief and perish in their sins as per Jn 8:24

24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Then the gates of hell prevailed against Christ building His Church.

If one goes to hell its because the gates of hell prevailed against them, that is the devil prevailed against them.

Unbelief is due to the devil blinding us 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,

Lk 8:12

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

So yes, unbelief is due to the devil being victorious ! He prevails preventing one to believe and be saved.. Paul says this:

2 Thess 2:10

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Satan, the Devil, the gates of Hell is prevailing against such as these..

But Jesus Christ by His Atoning death will build a community of believers in Him, that shall follow Him..

He says as a complement to Matt 16:18 this Jn 12:3225

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Thats His building, His drawing all to Him that He was lifted up for as the Son of the Living God.

Jesus is certainly building His Church.

The rock or foundation that the Church is built upon is God Himself teaches us and reveals to us His Son, as Messiah and Lord; the Son of the living God.


Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 16:17


But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27

• you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things

We can both know Him and learn directly from our loving God who teaches us and nurtures us throughout our life.

This is the promise of the New Covenant.

But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” Jeremiah 31:33-34


At the same time He does teach us and build us up through His teachers and pastors, apostles and prophets, and evangelists, that we all would mature and grow up in Him, and come to the unity of the faith.


And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, Ephesians 4:11-14

• that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine,

So we see the foundation, and we see the continuing work of the body of Christ, being built by Him.


Once His apostles fully understood who He was, they would continue the work of making disciples;



And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:18-20

• teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

[ACMP=reminder]
This thread is about atonement, that of what Christ paid for in His death and resurrection who now sits at the right hand of God making intercession for all who by God's free gift of grace, through faith, Romans 8:34; Ephesians 2:8-10. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God that whosoever believes in Christ and walk in obedience to His commands will be saved, Romans 10:5-21; Ephesians 1:1-14.

God's plan of salvation through Jesus Christ was before the foundation of the world as Christ sacrificed Himself being the unblemished Lamb of God for everyone's sin on the cross given to all who will believe. God never predestined who would be saved or who would be cast into the lake of fire as He predestined all of us before the foundation of the world as He created us to be holy without blame before Him, but through the fall of Adam disobedience came to all as all have sinned and fallen short of God's plan for humankind.

It's up to us to accept this free gift of God's grace and accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior as we humble ourselves before Him and repent of our past sins so that they will be forgiven when we acknowledge that we are sinners needing God's grace to forgive us.

Not once have I read anyone's post, unless I missed it as I am not going to read through 596 post, that has given the definition of atonement.

atonement:
the reconciliation of God and humankind through Jesus Christ

Let's get back to the subject of the OP being that of God's atonement as we share our thoughts, views and understanding of the Doctrines of Christ and not what the doctrines of Calvinism teaches or any other type of man's doctrines apart from that which Christ has already taught.
[/ACMP]

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus is certainly building His Church.

The rock or foundation that the Church is built upon is God Himself teaches us and reveals to us His Son, as Messiah and Lord; the Son of the living God.


Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 16:17


But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27

• you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things

We can both know Him and learn directly from our loving God who teaches us and nurtures us throughout our life.

This is the promise of the New Covenant.

But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” Jeremiah 31:33-34


At the same time He does teach us and build us up through His teachers and pastors, apostles and prophets, and evangelists, that we all would mature and grow up in Him, and come to the unity of the faith.


And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, Ephesians 4:11-14

• that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine,

So we see the foundation, and we see the continuing work of the body of Christ, being built by Him.


Once His apostles fully understood who He was, they would continue the work of making disciples;



And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:18-20

• teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

JLB

Please remember Jesus is building His Church, its His responsibility ! The foundation is His Blood and Righteousness !

 

[for_his_glory]

Please remember Jesus is building His Church, its His responsibility ! The foundation is His Blood and Righteousness !

Why is it the responsibly of Christ to build the church? Should it not be ours as we build on that foundation believing in the blood and righteousness of Christ Jesus as we pick up our cross to follow Him? Are we not to be taking the Gospel message of God's salvation to the world in order to build up a body of Christ with He being the head of the body?

 

[jaybo]

Why is it the responsibly of Christ to build the church? Should it not be ours as we build on that foundation believing in the blood and righteousness of Christ Jesus as we pick up our cross to follow Him? Are we not to be taking the Gospel message of God's salvation to the world in order to build up a body of Christ with He being the head of the body?

We are the living stones that build the church of Jesus Christ, but we're only the building materials. Jesus is the architect and builder.

 

[for_his_glory]

We are the living stones that build the church of Jesus Christ, but we're only the building materials. Jesus is the architect and builder.

We who are Christ own are to be vessels of honor to Him as His Holy Spirit works in us and through us yp help build up a holy nation unto Him.

1Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.