The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[for_his_glory]

Their believing/faith is Gods Gift to them !

God's free gift is His grace given to all whosoever by faith believe in God and His Son Christ Jesus. It's we, not God, who build upon our faith that is in Christ Jesus as we learn of Him. God can not make anyone believe or come to Him, but calls us to Him, but many refuse to hear Him calling them.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[JLB]

You paid zero attention to Pauls writing sir !

I actually quoted Paul’s writing.


For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 1 Corinthians 3:9-10

• According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder

What is Paul and his fellow workers building?




JLB

 

[brightfame52]

I actually quoted Paul’s writing.


For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 1 Corinthians 3:9-10

• According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder

What is Paul and his fellow workers building?




JLB

You may have quoted scripture, but that doesnt mean you paid attention closely to what was being said. 1 Cor 3:5-7

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

 

[jaybo]

You paid zero attention to Pauls writing sir !

Paul didn't write 1st Corinthians? Because that's whom JLB quoted.

 

[rogerg]

God's free gift is His grace given to all whosoever by faith believe in God and His Son Christ Jesus.

Can it really be a free gift if the receiver must do something (anything) to obtain it -- including through acquisition by their faith? In its purest form, a free gift doesn't become a free gift, until it's in the receiver's possession (with nothing on their part for it). Should they have to add anything, then the gift can't be free.
Yet, the Bible does define His grace as being a free gift. If so, must it already be in their possession, making it a truly free gift. The one who did all that was necessary for it was Christ. Do you think His actions insufficient for that?
We, as human beings, tend to use words and terms imprecisely -- free gift being one of them. God, on the other hand, does not. When God called it a "free gift", that's exactly what He meant. This kind of precision is what makes the Bible so trustworthy.

​

 

[for_his_glory]

Can it really be a free gift if the receiver must do something (anything) to obtain it -- including through acquisition by their faith? In its purest form, a free gift doesn't become a free gift, until it's in the receiver's possession (with nothing on their part for it). Should they have to add anything, then the gift can't be free.
Yet, the Bible does define His grace as being a free gift. If so, must it already be in their possession, making it a truly free gift. The one who did all that was necessary for it was Christ. Do you think His actions insufficient for that?
We, as human beings, tend to use words and terms imprecisely -- free gift being one of them. God, on the other hand, does not. When God called it a "free gift", that's exactly what He meant. This kind of precision is what makes the Bible so trustworthy.

​

God's grace is a free gift, which none of us deserve, as we are saved by faith which is our belief in Christ Jesus and the sacrifice He made for all who will believe. Our part of receiving grace is to accept it, nothing more, nothing less, but only to believe and you will receive it. Every Spiritually born again from above Christian is a "whosoever" that has received this gift from God.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[rogerg]

God's grace is a free gift, which none of us deserve, as we are saved by faith which is our belief in Christ Jesus and the sacrifice He made for all who will believe. Our part of receiving grace is to accept it, nothing more, nothing less, but only to believe and you will receive it. Every Spiritually born again from above Christian is a "whosoever" that has received this gift from God.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If you believe that grace and salvation are part of and leads to, each other, I think you might be contradicting yourself in the way you've used them (above). A free gift is a gift that's free, period - no strings attached. If gaining it is dependent upon ourselves in any way, then it is neither free nor a gift - unless you're saying that faith is a part of the gift too. Otherwise, respectfully, it sounds to me like you're associating phrases that aren't logically consistent within the context you're using them. Again, for a FREE gift to truly be FREE it has to have been given based solely upon its giver and NOT ourselves

 

[for_his_glory]

If you believe that grace and salvation are part of and leads to, each other, I think you might be contradicting yourself in the way you've used them (above). A free gift is a gift that's free, period - no strings attached. If gaining it is dependent upon ourselves in any way, then it is neither free nor a gift - unless you're saying that faith is a part of the gift too. Otherwise, respectfully, it sounds to me like you're associating phrases that aren't logically consistent within the context you're using them. Again, for a FREE gift to truly be FREE it has to have been given based solely upon its giver and NOT ourselves

Are you actually reading my post as I said God's grace is a free gift. Our part in "receiving" His grace is to believe in what the free gift is, which is faith that is the fee gift of God's grace through Christ Jesus.

 

[rogerg]

Are you actually reading my post as I said God's grace is a free gift. Our part in "receiving" His grace is to believe in what the free gift is, which is faith that is the fee gift of God's grace through Christ Jesus.

Are you reading mine? If you need to do something, anything, to receive it, then it's not a free gift. A free gift isn't one UNTIL it's in the recipient's possession. According to you, if you don't receive it then you don't get it, so, in that case, it was never a gift.

 

[JLB]

You may have quoted scripture, but that doesnt mean you paid attention closely to what was being said. 1 Cor 3:5-7

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Yes, God gives the increase.


As I said He builds His Church through His people, not apart from His people.


Paul is a master builder, through whom the Lord worked through and empowered to build His Church.




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Are you reading mine? If you need to do something, anything, to receive it, then it's not a free gift. A free gift isn't one UNTIL it's in the recipient's possession. According to you, if you don't receive it then you don't get it, so, in that case, it was never a gift.

If we receive something that is free then we need to believe it is free just as Ephesians 2:8-9 is written.

 

[rogerg]

If we receive something that is free then we need to believe it is free just as Ephesians 2:8-9 is written.

I'm trying to understand your reply. To keep it simple, are you say then that nothing can be done by the recipient to receive the free gift? yes or no?

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

Rom 5:11

11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The Atonement of Christ has reconciled the elect world to God. It secured and ensured for it [ the elect world] every spiritual blessing needed to live unto God and for His Glory through Jesus christ.

Even before the elect are born into this world as sinners, they have already [by the blood of Christ] been reconciled to God, it will now be a matter of time for it to be manifested.

The atonement accomplished the complete salvation for all whom it was offered for, that is the death of christ. It provides them Faith, repentance, sanctification, redemption, and every needful spiritual blessing to convert them to God, and remain secured forever.

This teaching is what led me to join.

It's an eternal message of reconciliation,atonement, because Jesus was the propitiation for the sins of the world.

I think this scripture is one that especially shows us how the many different Bible versions operate in disseminating the words of God.

Like the fabled Johannine comma in that the placement of one word can lead to conflict in the church.

In the case of Hebrews 2:17 I think we can at least feel some relief in that its message is delivered using different words surrounding reconciliation and in three different versions that thankfully are synonymous.

Hebrews 2:17 Reconciliation is translated as Atonement in the NIV; as Reconciliation in the KJV; and as Propitiation in the NAS.

Because both grace and faith are free gifts from God.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

For God so loved the world.
1 Timothy 4:10
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all mankind, especially of believers.

 

[brightfame52]

It gives forgiveness or remission of sins !

Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The word remission here is the greek word aphesis and means:

release from bondage or imprisonment

2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

And it is translated forgiveness six times in the NT Mk 3:29;Acts 5:31;13:38;26:18;Eph 1:7;Col 1:14

And so one of blessings of the atonement or the blood of Christ accomplished alone, for all those He died for is the remission or forgiveness of their sins all of them Col 2:13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

As just pointed out the word remission and forgiveness are the same in the greek, and means the cancellation of guilt, all legal guilt against the law of God, that properly belongs to guilty sinners , by means of Christ satisfaction [His Blood], He propitiated the Father in behalf of His People [Israel spiritual]. Christ made complete amends to the Law of God for every transgression which the sins of God's people committed. He by His death satisfied the alienation which our sins had made, He compensated for all the wrongs we had done against God's law Ps 69:4

then I restored that which I took not away.

So it is imperative to preach as an accomplishment of Christ blood the forgiveness of sins, not the possibility of , if a condition by the sinner is met, but premised completely on the blood of Christ Lk 24:47

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Now both repentance and remission of sins were to proclaimed in Christ name, not as duties and conditions to get saved, but as accomplishments of His work on the cross, and He Now as a risen Saviour gives them to a chosen People [Israel] that's what peter preached Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Note: Israel here is not national Israel, but the Israel of God made of jew and gentile. national israel was a type for all God's chosen of all nations, so this scripture shows us the limited scope of intention and application of repentance and remission or forgiveness of sins. The preaching was that God's Chosen people, throughout the world might receive the knowledge of their salvation by the remission or forgiveness of their sins Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, Yes, remission of sins is salvation..but notice, who receives this knowledge ? His People. see Matt 1:21 about His people !

The knowledge of salvation by the remission of sins is a experiential knowledge resulting in a change of mind and behavior in granting repentance.. These are a effect and accomplishment of the atonement of Christ, and all for whom He died has forgiveness or remission of sins, for its a covenant blessing from His blood Heb 8:12

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm trying to understand your reply. To keep it simple, are you say then that nothing can be done by the recipient to receive the free gift? yes or no?

No, nothing can be done in order to receive a free gift as it is free, no strings attached.

 

[Walpole]

It gives forgiveness or remission of sins !

Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The word remission here is the greek word aphesis and means:

release from bondage or imprisonment

2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

And it is translated forgiveness six times in the NT Mk 3:29;Acts 5:31;13:38;26:18;Eph 1:7;Col 1:14

And so one of blessings of the atonement or the blood of Christ accomplished alone, for all those He died for is the remission or forgiveness of their sins all of them Col 2:13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

As just pointed out the word remission and forgiveness are the same in the greek, and means the cancellation of guilt, all legal guilt against the law of God, that properly belongs to guilty sinners , by means of Christ satisfaction [His Blood], He propitiated the Father in behalf of His People [Israel spiritual]. Christ made complete amends to the Law of God for every transgression which the sins of God's people committed. He by His death satisfied the alienation which our sins had made, He compensated for all the wrongs we had done against God's law Ps 69:4

then I restored that which I took not away.

So it is imperative to preach as an accomplishment of Christ blood the forgiveness of sins, not the possibility of , if a condition by the sinner is met, but premised completely on the blood of Christ Lk 24:47

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Now both repentance and remission of sins were to proclaimed in Christ name, not as duties and conditions to get saved, but as accomplishments of His work on the cross, and He Now as a risen Saviour gives them to a chosen People [Israel] that's what peter preached Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Note: Israel here is not national Israel, but the Israel of God made of jew and gentile. national israel was a type for all God's chosen of all nations, so this scripture shows us the limited scope of intention and application of repentance and remission or forgiveness of sins. The preaching was that God's Chosen people, throughout the world might receive the knowledge of their salvation by the remission or forgiveness of their sins Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, Yes, remission of sins is salvation..but notice, who receives this knowledge ? His People. see Matt 1:21 about His people !

The knowledge of salvation by the remission of sins is a experiential knowledge resulting in a change of mind and behavior in granting repentance.. These are a effect and accomplishment of the atonement of Christ, and all for whom He died has forgiveness or remission of sins, for its a covenant blessing from His blood Heb 8:12

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Perhaps unwittingly, but you just made the case for the Christian Eucharist as a propitiatory sacrifice. This is anathema in most Protestant denominations.

 

[for_his_glory]

This teaching is what led me to join.

It's an eternal message of reconciliation,atonement, because Jesus was the propitiation for the sins of the world.

I think this scripture is one that especially shows us how the many different Bible versions operate in disseminating the words of God.

Like the fabled Johannine comma in that the placement of one word can lead to conflict in the church.

In the case of Hebrews 2:17 I think we can at least feel some relief in that its message is delivered using different words surrounding reconciliation and in three different versions that thankfully are synonymous.

Hebrews 2:17 Reconciliation is translated as Atonement in the NIV; as Reconciliation in the KJV; and as Propitiation in the NAS.

Because both grace and faith are free gifts from God.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

For God so loved the world.
1 Timothy 4:10
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all mankind, especially of believers.

Because you are new here let me catch you up a bit as there is so much to read through in 600 some replies.

In a nut shell. We are dealing with Calvinistic teachings that come against scripture as Calvinist believe that God has already predestined all who will be His own and and those He will send to hell. Calvinist do not believe in freewill as none of us has a choice to accept or reject Christ as God has already chosen His own.

 

[JLB]

No, nothing can be done in order to receive a free gift as it is free, no strings attached.

The free gift is indeed given, however there is a condition, and that condition is to believe.


Those who believe as saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16



God is good.




JLB

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

Because you are new here let me catch you up a bit as there is so much to read through in 600 some replies.

In a nut shell. We are dealing with Calvinistic teachings that come against scripture as Calvinist believe that God has already predestined all who will be His own and and those He will send to hell. Calvinist do not believe in freewill as none of us has a choice to accept or reject Christ as God has already chosen His own.

Thank you for catching me up.
And while I am not Calvinist I do know that all those points you reiterated from my post are able to be sustained by scripture.

 

[JLB]

Thank you for catching me up.
And while I am not Calvinist I do know that all those points you reiterated from my post are able to be sustained by scripture.

One thing we can all be sure of, and we can all agree on is:

God loves us.

Be watchful for those who claim God only loves certain people, while hating others who He predestines for the fires of hell.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


We believe that God desires all men to be saved.


God bless you, and welcome.




JLB