The CURSE OF THE LAW

[Mitspa]

Some commands from the law of Moses are literally fulfilled by the faith that justifies, while others from the law of Moses are spiritually satisfied for all time through the faith that justifies. It's important to know the difference.

It's essential that after you fulfill the requirements of the old covenant worship system through faith in Christ that you then literally uphold the moral requirements of the law through that same faith in Christ.

The church doesn't seem to do so well with the literal requirements because of bad teaching that says they 'passed away', too, with the worship system of the old covenant.

Because the strength of sin is the law! The "church" has mixed the two covenants and the law is used in an unlawful way.

Grace is the power over sin, when true grace is preached and taught sin will be put under.

The fact that the law produces sinful desires is ignored, and the law has been "broken" into parts.

So those who look to parts of the written code in order to satisfy it "requirements" are not in faith at all.

For the law is not of faith.

Only when one walks in the Spirit and Gods love, apart from the written code, are they in the New Testament laws of faith and love.

For nothing profits anything but faith working by love.

 

[JCitoL]

yes, this is the very point I was making. The law has been broken into parts and brought down to such a level as to make the religious class "think" they can keep it. What The Lord did was bring it to its highest and true standard. Where even the most religious, could not keep its true standard. The reason the harlot has access unto the Kingdom before the pharisee, is because the harlot has NO DOUBT, but that salvation is by grace alone.
Those who look to written code, and think they keep its standard are blinded to there own sinful flesh. They are cursed (as i have written) blinded in heart and mind. Hypocricy is the fruit of those who look to the written code.
ONLY when one becomes "wretched" and weak, and foolish before God. Has one honored and upheld the true standard of the law.
Only when knows that is ONLY by Gods grace apart from the law, has one "heard" seen and upheld the law.

How great a punishment do you think that those who have received the free gift of righteousness and abounding grace, will receive? For it is written that those who seek to be justified by the law are required to KEEP ALL THE LAW.

They dishonor the law by rejecting its standard and more than that they dishonor Christ and His Blood.

This is the WILLING SIN of Heb 10:26-29

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, MY SOUL HATH NO PLEASURE IN him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not as those who draw back into predition; but we are those WHO BELIEVE to the saving of the soul.

THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW.
THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH.

what is the "law"?!, you can alone see how e.g. the yogis also call their creed "faith" besides professing that "yoga" is the very original form of "faith" for as much as it is the sublimest/greatest satanic creed, but see how many things and principles/rules they show - thus there are many (either written or unwritten) ordinances, then see how many viewpoints are shown by the true Saints e.g. the Saints of the New Testament - there are also many instructions/precepts, so, what is the "faith" and what is the "law", what is the difference between them?!, because not only in the old testament there are many commandments, but there are also many instructions/precepts in the New Testament, even there are many ordinances in each religion/denomination, so if we say that there is a true/right faith which works by show of love towards all other people/souls of the universe besides even independently of whatever "law", even then there may nevertheless be some principles which must more or less be kept, because the Ten Commandments are exactly such principles in their basis even if they are a part of the "Law" which was given by Moses, but the right faith is entirely based on (the) love and humility, while the imperfect faith is more or less based on non-salvation/perdition, that is why the imperfect faith is called "law", because if there is a faith which is more or less accomplished by humans, then the same faith with certainty is more or less limited as regards the salvation/life-saving effect(-iveness) exactly as some law of the nature is more or less merciless towards the biological beings which inhabit it unlike some enough good/loving beings that always take care of all other beings without allowing there be whatever evil - namely the true Lord God and the true Saints are such all-merciful beings

Blessings

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So those who look to parts of the written code in order to satisfy it "requirements" are not in faith at all.

'Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” (Romans 7:7 NASB)

The law gives us knowledge of sin.

Walking in the fruit of the Spirit gives us power over sin.


In the Law of Moses, the knowledge of sin for this New Covenant is contained in the moral commands--how we treat one another, summed up in 'love your neighbor as yourself' (Leviticus 19:18).

The literal laws governing temple, priesthood, and sacrifice no longer define what is and isn't sin for the people of God because the literal temple, priesthood, and sacrifices (for sin) are no longer needed to do what faith in Christ did for us one time, perfectly, and forever.

 

[Mitspa]

yes, this is the very point I was making. The law has been broken into parts and brought down to such a level as to make the religious class "think" they can keep it. What The Lord did was bring it to its highest and true standard. Where even the most religious, could not keep its true standard. The reason the harlot has access unto the Kingdom before the pharisee, is because the harlot has NO DOUBT, but that salvation is by grace alone.
Those who look to written code, and think they keep its standard are blinded to there own sinful flesh. They are cursed (as i have written) blinded in heart and mind. Hypocricy is the fruit of those who look to the written code.
ONLY when one becomes "wretched" and weak, and foolish before God. Has one honored and upheld the true standard of the law.
Only when knows that is ONLY by Gods grace apart from the law, has one "heard" seen and upheld the law.

How great a punishment do you think that those who have received the free gift of righteousness and abounding grace, will receive? For it is written that those who seek to be justified by the law are required to KEEP ALL THE LAW.

They dishonor the law by rejecting its standard and more than that they dishonor Christ and His Blood.

This is the WILLING SIN of Heb 10:26-29

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, MY SOUL HATH NO PLEASURE IN him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not as those who draw back into predition; but we are those WHO BELIEVE to the saving of the soul.

THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW.
THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH.

what is the "law"?!, you can alone see how e.g. the yogis also call their creed "faith" besides professing that "yoga" is the very original form of "faith" for as much as it is the sublimest/greatest satanic creed, but see how many things and principles/rules they show - thus there are many (either written or unwritten) ordinances, then see how many viewpoints are shown by the true Saints e.g. the Saints of the New Testament - there are also many instructions/precepts, so, what is the "faith" and what is the "law", what is the difference between them?!, because not only in the old testament there are many commandments, but there are also many instructions/precepts in the New Testament, even there are many ordinances in each religion/denomination, so if we say that there is a true/right faith which works by show of love towards all other people/souls of the universe besides even independently of whatever "law", even then there may nevertheless be some principles which must more or less be kept, because the Ten Commandments are exactly such principles in their basis even if they are a part of the "Law" which was given by Moses, but the right faith is entirely based on (the) love and humility, while the imperfect faith is more or less based on non-salvation/perdition, that is why the imperfect faith is called "law", because if there is a faith which is more or less accomplished by humans, then the same faith with certainty is more or less limited as regards the salvation/life-saving effect(-iveness) exactly as some law of the nature is more or less merciless towards the biological beings which inhabit it unlike some enough good/loving beings that always take care of all other beings without allowing there be whatever evil - namely the true Lord God and the true Saints are such all-merciful beings

Blessings

Well I know very well that "religion" calls itself faith, but it is not true biblical faith. It is religion and the worship of demonic spirits.
Also I do not remove the law for its purpose and that one must through the law die to the law.
It does stand as a witness, and its purpose is decribed by scripture, not by mans opinions or mans carnal understanding of its place, but according to the gospel.

The issue with man is not that if he knows sin, will he not sin?
But the issue of man is that he would know righteousness through the Spirit of God and walk in righteousness.

The purpose of the law,was to bring man out of the deception that he knows good and evil and has the ability to do the good he knows , and not do the evil that he knows.
Man has no power to look at the the written code of the law, and to keep that code.

This is just the deception of a mans own flesh.

 

[Mitspa]

So those who look to parts of the written code in order to satisfy it "requirements" are not in faith at all.

'Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” (Romans 7:7 NASB)

The law gives us knowledge of sin.

Walking in the fruit of the Spirit gives us power over sin.


In the Law of Moses, the knowledge of sin for this New Covenant is contained in the moral commands--how we treat one another, summed up in 'love your neighbor as yourself' (Leviticus 19:18).

The literal laws governing temple, priesthood, and sacrifice no longer define what is and isn't sin for the people of God because the literal temple, priesthood, and sacrifices (for sin) are no longer needed to do what faith in Christ did for us one time, perfectly, and forever.

well of course you did not quote the NEXT scripture Rom 7:8

Which goes on to explain that sin only dies when we die to the law, that no man can look to the written code and overcome sin. For the strength of sin is the law.

What good does it do to know sin, if that knowledge produces sinful desires?

No! that is not the gospel!

We turn away from the law and we look to the IMAGE OF CHRIST, and reckon ourselves dead to sin and the law.
We die to the old, that we might walk in the new.

Now I cannot make you understand! God has to grant that to you. All I can do is so you that your dotrines are wrong.
You must seek the Lord, to understand the mystery.

I could teach you, if you would become as a student? But God resist the proud and gives grace to the humble.

 

[francisdesales]

Being righteous before God is not a matter of earning His Love, but faithfully following Him to the best of our ability, relying totally on Him to give us the grace to do His will.

A blessed Resurrection Day to you, my brother in Christ. Holy is our Lord and Savior. In Him is our peace.

Thanks, and the same to you, my sister in Christ,

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

A brave new generation of text twisters... Anything that doesn't suit their theology is explained away or ignored. Have you noticed that I have cited Luke 1:5-6 a half dozen times, but STILL, people seem to think that "no one is righteous, no one can keep the Law"...

Would it make a difference if a person quoted the above after citing Rom 3:10;8:7-8 two dozen times and STILL, you believing that one could be righteous and obedient to the law?

There is man in the flesh and there is man in the spirit - Rom 3:10 etc. applies to man in the flesh - Luke 1:5-6 etc. applies to man in the spirit - I am unable to see a contradiction here that needs to be ignored by the text-twisters. How a man is created anew in the spirit from one who was in the flesh - whether by works or by faith - can be discussed further upon. But as concerning obedience and righteousness - we in the flesh, who are neither obedient nor righteous as per Rom 3:10 are indeed regenerated - for the very purpose of living a life unto God in righteousness and obedience as per Luke 1:5-6. To presume that any man in the flesh can be righteous and obedient is to deny Rom 3:10 and its associated theology.

I didn't say that ANYONE could gain righteousness on their own abilities. I am saying that the SCRIPTURES note that some were able to obey the Law. Now, if the Scriptures says we cannot be righteous on our own, doesn't it follow that God is granting grace to people, even in OT times, for them to be considered "blameless before the Law"? Scriptures clearly note that some people were righteous and blameless before the Law.

Regards

Romans 3.23 would have a comment on this.

Romans 3 is a denial of the Jew and their claim to priveleged position with God for their possession of the Law. Just HAVING it was a reason to boast for the Jews. Read Romans 2 carefully to see how Paul is setting this up to attack Jews who thought that merely being of the People of God with their Law was enough to win salvation. No, "works of the Law" was not what justifies. Pagans were doing good deeds without having the Law and were entering the Kingdom. Only spiritual Jews, not those of the "flesh", born into Judaism but did not obey the Law. Romans 3 is a condemnation against Jews, since the context of the Psalms Paul cites are written by David v JEWS. If you read the context of the Pslams Paul is relating, you'll note that indeed, some WERE just and following the Law. Being a Jew was just not enough.

Nor was it required that anyone should become a Jew. That is the premier problem in the early Church, which Acts 15 addresses.

Regards

 

[Mitspa]

So Paul is saying that the "jew" cannot keep or be justifed by the law, but we gentiles can? Thats just error built upon more error.
For the is no difference, and Paul males this point very clear, that He is speaking to ALL as it relates to the law and its purpose.
Rom 3:20-23
THEREFORE BY THE DEEDS OF THE LAW THERE SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED.
FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE JEW AND THE GENTILE.

funny how some attempt to ingore the clear and evident truth of scripture by saying "Paul was speaking to the jews"

 

[JCitoL]

Well I know very well that "religion" calls itself faith, but it is not true biblical faith. It is religion and the worship of demonic spirits. Also I do not remove the law for its purpose and that one must through the law die to the law. It does stand as a witness, and its purpose is decribed by scripture, not by mans opinions or mans carnal understanding of its place, but according to the gospel. The issue with man is not that if he knows sin, will he not sin? But the issue of man is that he would know righteousness through the Spirit of God and walk in righteousness. The purpose of the law,was to bring man out of the deception that he knows good and evil and has the ability to do the good he knows , and not do the evil that he knows. Man has no power to look at the the written code of the law, and to keep that code. This is just the deception of a mans own flesh.

the purpose is the salvation to be (made) easy/direct for all humans, otherwise less people will be saved, it is e.g. as in case of fire where the surrounded people need an easy, accessible and direct way to evacuate or some firefighters to rescue them from the flames, likewise the situation in the faith is similar, there are many people/souls who need salvation unto abundant and everlasting life, that is why the purpose therein is the process of salvation not to be dragged (on), because each minute (of) delay may be full of afflictions/ruin for many

Blessings

 

[Mitspa]

Gal 3:10-13
For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT CONTINUE IN ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM"

This is the main subject of the book of Galatians. That those who had been freely justified by the grace of God, and given the free gift of righteousness. Had now turned back into the written code, and to attempts to justify themselves by parts of the law.
Pauls point was that if you try to keep any part of the written code, you are subject to keep it all. And in this effort to earn, what God only gives by faith, a man has turned from the blessing of Abraham unto the curse of the law.
Take notice that it is ALL THAT IS WRITTEN- EVERY JOT AND TITTLE!
So this is Pauls point from the begining of this epistle. If any man preach another gospel other than His Gospel, they are ANATHEMA
Those who teach the law and legalism are in fact "anathema" They are the "cursed" children of 2 Pet 2:14

2 Cor 3:12-15 Seeing we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not behold the end of that which is ABOLISHED.
But their MINDS WERE BLINDED, for even until this day the same vail remains at the reading of the OLD testament. WHICH IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.
but even unto this day, when Moses is read the vail is upon their heart.

Deu 28:28-29 THE LORD SHALL SMITE THEE WITH MADNESS, AND BLINDNESS AND ASTONISHMENT OF HEART: AND THOU SHALT GROPE IN THE NOONDAY, AS THE BLIND GROPETH IN DARKNESS.

We see that those who cannot see that Christ is the end of the law, for righteousness. Are indeed cursed, and blind of mind and heart. Altough many claim to be children of the Day, they have no understanding of Gods righteousness and go about to establish their own righteousness, by the written code of the law.

Col 2:14-15 Having nailed the law to His Cross, Christ has disarmed satan? The name satan means ACCUSER.
satan hold believers in bondage to the weakness of their flesh and sin by deceiving them into looking to the law, (the strength of sin)

satans greatest weapon against the church is the law of moses, (the written code)

All his false ministers come as preachers of righteousness, promoting the law and works of the flesh.

Now none of them are so foolish as to try and teach the true standard of the law, but they bring in parts. For satan knows that if any man attempts to justified himself by any work of the law, satan has control of that persons mind and heart.
2 Cor 4:4

 

[childeye]

Gal 3:10-13
For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT CONTINUE IN ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM"

This is the main subject of the book of Galatians. That those who had been freely justified by the grace of God, and given the free gift of righteousness. Had now turned back into the written code, and to attempts to justify themselves by parts of the law.
Pauls point was that if you try to keep any part of the written code, you are subject to keep it all. And in this effort to earn, what God only gives by faith, a man has turned from the blessing of Abraham unto the curse of the law.
Take notice that it is ALL THAT IS WRITTEN- EVERY JOT AND TITTLE!
So this is Pauls point from the begining of this epistle. If any man preach another gospel other than His Gospel, they are ANATHEMA
Those who teach the law and legalism are in fact "anathema" They are the "cursed" children of 2 Pet 2:14

2 Cor 3:12-15 Seeing we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not behold the end of that which is ABOLISHED.
But their MINDS WERE BLINDED, for even until this day the same vail remains at the reading of the OLD testament. WHICH IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.
but even unto this day, when Moses is read the vail is upon their heart.

Deu 28:28-29 THE LORD SHALL SMITE THEE WITH MADNESS, AND BLINDNESS AND ASTONISHMENT OF HEART: AND THOU SHALT GROPE IN THE NOONDAY, AS THE BLIND GROPETH IN DARKNESS.

We see that those who cannot see that Christ is the end of the law, for righteousness. Are indeed cursed, and blind of mind and heart. Altough many claim to be children of the Day, they have no understanding of Gods righteousness and go about to establish their own righteousness, by the written code of the law.

Col 2:14-15 Having nailed the law to His Cross, Christ has disarmed satan? The name satan means ACCUSER.
satan hold believers in bondage to the weakness of their flesh and sin by deceiving them into looking to the law, (the strength of sin)

satans greatest weapon against the church is the law of moses, (the written code)

All his false ministers come as preachers of righteousness, promoting the law and works of the flesh.

Now none of them are so foolish as to try and teach the true standard of the law, but they bring in parts. For satan knows that if any man attempts to justified himself by any work of the law, satan has control of that persons mind and heart.
2 Cor 4:4

Do you believe men are justified by Christ when we forgive each others sins? For he said this is my blood which is shed so that sins may be forgiven. To be clear, would a man who would blame others for their sins be justified in Christ?
Romans 5:16

New International Version (NIV)

16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

 

[Mitspa]

Gal 3:10-13
For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT CONTINUE IN ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM"

This is the main subject of the book of Galatians. That those who had been freely justified by the grace of God, and given the free gift of righteousness. Had now turned back into the written code, and to attempts to justify themselves by parts of the law.
Pauls point was that if you try to keep any part of the written code, you are subject to keep it all. And in this effort to earn, what God only gives by faith, a man has turned from the blessing of Abraham unto the curse of the law.
Take notice that it is ALL THAT IS WRITTEN- EVERY JOT AND TITTLE!
So this is Pauls point from the begining of this epistle. If any man preach another gospel other than His Gospel, they are ANATHEMA
Those who teach the law and legalism are in fact "anathema" They are the "cursed" children of 2 Pet 2:14

2 Cor 3:12-15 Seeing we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not behold the end of that which is ABOLISHED.
But their MINDS WERE BLINDED, for even until this day the same vail remains at the reading of the OLD testament. WHICH IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.
but even unto this day, when Moses is read the vail is upon their heart.

Deu 28:28-29 THE LORD SHALL SMITE THEE WITH MADNESS, AND BLINDNESS AND ASTONISHMENT OF HEART: AND THOU SHALT GROPE IN THE NOONDAY, AS THE BLIND GROPETH IN DARKNESS.

We see that those who cannot see that Christ is the end of the law, for righteousness. Are indeed cursed, and blind of mind and heart. Altough many claim to be children of the Day, they have no understanding of Gods righteousness and go about to establish their own righteousness, by the written code of the law.

Col 2:14-15 Having nailed the law to His Cross, Christ has disarmed satan? The name satan means ACCUSER.
satan hold believers in bondage to the weakness of their flesh and sin by deceiving them into looking to the law, (the strength of sin)

satans greatest weapon against the church is the law of moses, (the written code)

All his false ministers come as preachers of righteousness, promoting the law and works of the flesh.

Now none of them are so foolish as to try and teach the true standard of the law, but they bring in parts. For satan knows that if any man attempts to justified himself by any work of the law, satan has control of that persons mind and heart.
2 Cor 4:4

Do you believe men are justified by Christ when we forgive each others sins? For he said this is my blood which is shed so that sins may be forgiven. To be clear, would a man who would blame others for their sins be justified in Christ?

Not sure of your question childeye? We forgive others because we know that we have been forgiven and it is the Way of Our beloved Lord.
Not sure how one who blames others for their sin? could be justified or not justified? That is not the standard of the gospel. I would say that one that does this is in error, but error in itself does not limit the grace of God.

Most of us are all in error to some to degree as we relate to the perfect standard of Our Lord Jesus.

 

[ivdavid]

Thats what I thought, so we are not justified by the Law, but in order to maintain "Gods Holy standard" we must look to the written code of the law?

Is that the sequence I put it in, in my last post? I did not say "in order to"..."we must look to" - I said "when" we are enabled to maintain God's Holy standard, "we find" that we are not transgressing His Law and in that, His Law is still found to be valid today.

So does one in your religious system, need to study the law as to know what is right and wrong?

No. God is capable of teaching through His Spirit. But when one does discern between right and wrong, he'll find that it is not in violation of any jot or tittle of God's law as intended Spiritually.

 

[ivdavid]

To presume that any man in the flesh can be righteous and obedient is to deny Rom 3:10 and its associated theology.

I am saying that the SCRIPTURES note that some were able to obey the Law.

Were these "Some" who obeyed the law - in the flesh, Or in the spirit - at the time that Scripture noted these?

If you say that these 'some' were obeying the law "in the spirit" and not "in the flesh", we have no contradiction/conflict at all - for as I said, Rom 3:10 etc deals with people "in the flesh" while Luke 1:5-6 etc deals with people "in the spirit".

Now, if the Scriptures says we cannot be righteous on our own, doesn't it follow that God is granting grace to people, even in OT times, for them to be considered "blameless before the Law"? Scriptures clearly note that some people were righteous and blameless before the Law.

No issues here at all. Nobody has denied that regenerated man "in the spirit" is led by God and could be righteous and blameless before His Law. But it was so with only man "in the spirit" and not with man "in the flesh". If this distinction is acknowledged, there would be no conflict at all - for then a man "in the spirit" who is righteous and blameless before God's Law, would not contradict the truth that no man "in the flesh" is righteous and able to keep the law.

 

[Mitspa]

Thats what I thought, so we are not justified by the Law, but in order to maintain "Gods Holy standard" we must look to the written code of the law?

Is that the sequence I put it in, in my last post? I did not say "in order to"..."we must look to" - I said "when" we are enabled to maintain God's Holy standard, "we find" that we are not transgressing His Law and in that, His Law is still found to be valid today.

So does one in your religious system, need to study the law as to know what is right and wrong?

No. God is capable of teaching through His Spirit. But when one does discern between right and wrong, he'll find that it is not in violation of any jot or tittle of God's law as intended Spiritually.

Are you sure? because by the letter, circumcision is a very different thing that by the Spirit? The true sabbath is not even known to a man who looks to the written code. "for only when a man has ceased from his own works can he enter into Gods rest.
Are you saying that according to your religious system that you uphold every jot a tittle of the law, or that keep its standard as the Lord taught? For He brought the standard up to the level that if a man even sinned in thought or heart he was a trangressor of the written code.

 

[Mitspa]

To presume that any man in the flesh can be righteous and obedient is to deny Rom 3:10 and its associated theology.

I am saying that the SCRIPTURES note that some were able to obey the Law.

Were these "Some" who obeyed the law - in the flesh, Or in the spirit - at the time that Scripture noted these?

If you say that these 'some' were obeying the law "in the spirit" and not "in the flesh", we have no contradiction/conflict at all - for as I said, Rom 3:10 etc deals with people "in the flesh" while Luke 1:5-6 etc deals with people "in the spirit".

Now, if the Scriptures says we cannot be righteous on our own, doesn't it follow that God is granting grace to people, even in OT times, for them to be considered "blameless before the Law"? Scriptures clearly note that some people were righteous and blameless before the Law.

No issues here at all. Nobody has denied that regenerated man "in the spirit" is led by God and could be righteous and blameless before His Law. But it was so with only man "in the spirit" and not with man "in the flesh". If this distinction is acknowledged, there would be no conflict at all - for then a man "in the spirit" who is righteous and blameless before God's Law, would not contradict the truth that no man "in the flesh" is righteous and able to keep the law.

Very good point, for it is written that a man who walks in the Spirit, needs no law. But only the "law of faith and love"

Which is the Holy Commandment delivered by the Father unto the Apostles on the Mt. of trans. THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, HEAR HIM. - and the commandment of Christ is to love as He has loved us.
John makes these commandments clear.
At the end of all obedience is faith working by love, as Paul wrote.
In as much as the law written code is used as a "witness" to these commandments the law is used lawfully.

You see these laws are spiritual and are not written anywhere but upon the heart of those who walk in the spirit.

 

[francisdesales]

To presume that any man in the flesh can be righteous and obedient is to deny Rom 3:10 and its associated theology.

I am saying that the SCRIPTURES note that some were able to obey the Law.

Were these "Some" who obeyed the law - in the flesh, Or in the spirit - at the time that Scripture noted these?

If you say that these 'some' were obeying the law "in the spirit" and not "in the flesh", we have no contradiction/conflict at all - for as I said, Rom 3:10 etc deals with people "in the flesh" while Luke 1:5-6 etc deals with people "in the spirit".

Agree. No one who follows after the flesh can obey the Law as God intends, as the fruit of the flesh are clearly laid out in Galatians 5. Those are not how to fulfill God's Law!

Regards

 

[ivdavid]

Are you sure? because by the letter, circumcision is a very different thing that by the Spirit?

.....he'll find that it is not in violation of any jot or tittle of God's law as intended Spiritually.

Am I then putting forth that all of us here are to also be circumcised when I say LAW(1) is still valid - yes, but in its intended spiritual connotation. Why did God institute circumcision in the OT - it was to be a foreshadow of spiritual things to come - namely, the spiritual circumcising of our hearts - not by the self, but by the Spirit. And this is valid today. Similarly with all the ceremonial laws of the OT - doesn't passover translate spiritually to our Good Friday and the festival of First Fruits to our Easter - and don't we mandate ourselves to observe our redemption from death by the smearing of the blood of Christ on the doorposts of our souls - and don't we observe the resurrection of the First Fruit which assures the rest of us in Christ that we'd too be gathered similarly in the final harvest?

So yes, I am sure that all the commandments of the OT are still valid in its spiritual connotation even today.

God's ways of teaching man has always followed a pattern -

1) He shows/commands things in the physical world as a foreshadow of spiritual things to come, so that fleshly man may perceive and comprehend according to his limited physical senses.

2) After such establishing of His truths in the physical model, God then regenerates fleshly man to be born anew in the spirit.

3) God now shows forth the actual spiritual reality, that of which man had so far seen only a physical foreshadow of - but is now able to grasp completely with his new spiritual senses.

4) God now lays again the very things He had instituted in point-1) in its intended spiritual connotation - and sets forth just this spiritual reality where the physical model is no longer required.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...sin only dies when we die to the law

Anyone who is in Christ has already died to the law (our 'work' now is to act out what we know to be true).

That's why it's okay to know what is condemned as sin by reading the law. The law doesn't have the authority over the believer you are giving it.

Reading the law only acts as a veil to the truth of Christ's righteousness when you rely on the law, as the Jews do to this day, for righteousness.

Stop putting believers back under the authority of the law! Stop saying to them what God has said is no longer true for those who belong to him!

...that no man can look to the written code and overcome sin.

Right. He becomes conscious of sin when he knows what the law says about sin.

 

[francisdesales]

So Paul is saying that the "jew" cannot keep or be justifed by the law, but we gentiles can?

Of course not, Paul said in Romans 1 that the Gentiles refused to worship God with the knowledge that they had. However, Paul is not addressing universally every single person, for clearly in Romans 2, he DOES have actual people in mind, exceptional people who DID follow a law written on their hearts, and those people were considered "spiritual jews", entering eternal life. Was this because of their own ability, or faith in God? What do you think? The later, of course.

Despite the "faith v works" argument inaccurately foisted upon the Scriptures in Romans 3, clearly, the subject is one POSSESSION of the Law as a means to boast and to receive eternal salvation. Romans 2-4 are clearly written to attack Judaizers and has precious little to do with "faith v good deeds". A primary theme in Sacred Scriptures is DOING the will of God. What does Jesus tell us in Matthew 7:21? You have read other parts of the Bible besides Paul, right?

Paul clearly shows how Jews WITH THE MOSAIC LAW were not doers of the law automatically. No one will receive salvation without faith. No one can please God without faith. Just HAVING the Covenant promises were inadequate, because the Covenant promises were CONDITIONAL, based upon faith and trust in God.

For the is no difference, and Paul males this point very clear, that He is speaking to ALL as it relates to the law and its purpose.

I guess Paul had no clue about the dozen or so citations from the OT about righteous people who were fulfilling the Law... Nor do you.

I guess Paul didn't read the Psalms, that over and over again speak of people seeking God... Nor have you.

The only part of the Bible that you seem to regard is a few letters from St. Paul. The rest doesn't seem as inspired by God in your eyes.

Rom 3:20-23
THEREFORE BY THE DEEDS OF THE LAW THERE SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED.

I am saying nothing about being justified by the law. No one can be justified by the Law, and I have NEVER said that one was justified by the Law!!! Are you so committed to dissension among the Body? How many times do I have to say it before it sinks in over there?

FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE JEW AND THE GENTILE.

Not for why you think. The Gentiles didn't HAVE the Mosaic Law. The difference is that having the Law didn't help the Jews as a nation. Whether Gentiles as a people or Jews as a people, it didn't matter. This is why Paul tells us that God is not a respecter of humans. The "difference" is not that all men were evil and refused to seek out God, he tells us in Romans 2 that some are NOT evil!!! Have you READ Romans 2???

The "no difference" is that ALL WILL BE JUDGED BY WHAT THEY DO BY FAITH IN GOD!!! Jews and Gentiles will be judged on what they do, based on trust-filled actions... NOT ON POSSESSION OF THE LAW!

THAT is the theme of Romans 2-4. Whether Jew or Gentile, you must have faith in God, faith that is founded on loving deeds. Jews would not get a "pass" because they had the Mosaic Law!!!

funny how some attempt to ingore the clear and evident truth of scripture by saying "Paul was speaking to the jews"

I wouldn't call your ignoring the clear truth of Scripture (which is larger than the Pauline corpus, by the way) "funny"... :gah