The destruction of the temple in 70AD, how do futurists deal with this?

[Dorothy Mae]

So you believe the vision of future events given by Jesus Christ to John on Patmos have already taken place ?

They were future when he gave John the Revelation. He said he gave the information so they’d understand what was soon to take place as described in the earlier parts. The Resurrection has not taken place, obviously and the subsequent Judgement also not.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I thought he dealt with both the second coming and the rapture, although admittedly, not in great detail.

Let’s look at his scripture.

A careful study of Revelation 19-20 reveals no textual support for a rapture in that sequence of events. The revelation of Christ at His second coming is painted graphically in Revelation 19:11-16:

I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

This is not the second coming of a christ which shall be as he left according to the angel. This isn’t how he left. This is Gods judgement on Israel that happened in 70 AD.

king of kings and lord of lords.

There is no similarity whatever between this and His coming at the Rapture as brought out previously. At the Rapture there is no statement of anyone accompanying Him; there is no record that He ever judges the earth or that His purpose is to end the times of the Gentiles.

There is no rapture only the Resurrection in scripture.

In Revelation the second coming of Christ is pictured in contrast to His first coming. In His first coming He came quietly to live a life on earth; in His second coming He comes in His glory accompanied by the hosts of heaven.

The expressions used in Revelation are those in the OT when God wipes out a nation. “Coming in clouds” means destructive Judgement, not a description of a means of travel.

At the Second Coming there is no “catching up” of the church and taking it out of the world as is true of the Rapture. In the Second Coming the saints and angels will accompany Christ in His return and will remain in the earthly sphere to share in the millennial reign that follows. At His second coming Christ will destroy the armies of the world that were gathered to conquer the Holy Land. It is a terrible picture of divine judgment upon a wicked world that rejected Christ. The world leader described as the beast and the false prophet associated with him will be cast alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur (Rev. 19:20).

Rev 19:20 doesn’t say that. That part of the Bible is the Judgement and destruction of “those who pierced him.” He will come again “as he left” without an army.

All the scriptures are there, the thousand years for example and the defeat of Satan in Revelation 20, he just doesn't expound on them.

But they don’t say what he believes. And he has to ignore what the angel clearly said in no picture language that he will come again JUST AS HE LEFT without an army or bloodshed or violence.

 

[Cooper]

Let’s look at his scripture.

This is not the second coming of a christ which shall be as he left according to the angel. This isn’t how he left. This is Gods judgement on Israel that happened in 70 AD.

There is no rapture only the Resurrection in scripture.

The expressions used in Revelation are those in the OT when God wipes out a nation. “Coming in clouds” means destructive Judgement, not a description of a means of travel.

Rev 19:20 doesn’t say that. That part of the Bible is the Judgement and destruction of “those who pierced him.” He will come again “as he left” without an army.

But they don’t say what he believes. And he has to ignore what the angel clearly said in no picture language that he will come again JUST AS HE LEFT without an army or bloodshed or violence.

Hello Dorothy, I found this on my computer from years back and thought it might be useful.

THE SECOND COMING​

Satan’s Seat
It was a maxim among the Jews, that where the law of God was not studied, there Satan dwelt. This is what is meant when people said “Where Satan’s seat is” or “Where Satan has his throne” or “where he reigns as king, and is universally obeyed.” Pergamos was one such place and was the centre of heathen idolatry with Satan in full residence. However, where a synagogue or academy was established Satan and his followers were obliged to leave that place.

Revelation 2:13 says, “I know that you live in the city where Satan has his throne, yet you have remained loyal to me. You refused to deny me even when Antipas, my faithful witness, was martyred among you there in Satan’s city.

Signs of Christ’s return (Matthew 24:6-8)
Although there will be wars and rumours of wars, famines, earthquakes and other natural disasters the believer should not be frightened for although these things need to take place this is not yet the end. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, there will be famines and earthquakes but these things are merely the first birth pangs.

Tribulation (Matthew 24:9-14 and Revelation chapters 6-16)
We could be in the Tribulation now since AD70 and the Roman destruction of the Temple.
The Antichrist will appear in the temple in Jerusalem which marks the beginning of distressing times the like of which has never been seen before. Lawlessness will increase, and there will be a false Messiah and false prophets who will perform signs and miracles. They will be so very convincing believers are warned against being deceived.

Christians will be killed, they will be hated by all nations and many will backslide but those who endure to the end will be held safe and secure by the Lamb including the 144,000 who will be sealed along with the great multitude of believers from all nations and their troubles will be of shorter duration.

(Note: based on Daniel the Tribulation is calculated to last for 3½ years (some say 7 years) but we need to be careful because a year in our time is not a year in the Lord’s time, the same as the cosmos' time when compared to earth time. Possibly the Tribulation could be of far longer duration than we think. It may have begun with Joseph Stalin, Mao-Tse-Tung, Pol Pot, Kim-Il-Sung, Fidel Castro, and Hitler who murdered millions of Christians and persecution continues today.) Remember the discussion not long ago about the age of the earth and the word yome?

Armageddon (Matthew 24:15-26) (Revelation 17-18)
There will be war between the major nations in the Battle of Armageddon in the Middle East. Babylon which metaphorically is the head of the pagan world will be destroyed (Revelation 18:1-24) and when people see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

There will be false messiahs who will show great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. “Behold, I have told you in advance. “So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them.

The Millennium and Christ’s return (Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation chapters 19 to 20)
In order that we are not deceived into thinking it is not the Lord we will be given a sign which will be the darkening of the sun and the moon, the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. The saints who suffered for Christ will live and reign with Him for 1000 years and their salvation is assured.

This is the first resurrection but it will not happen until the Jews say, “How blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!” (Matt 23) It begins with the Wedding-Feast of the Lamb, the beast and false prophet are taken prisoners and chained while those who had been martyred for their faith rule with Christ for a thousand years.

The defeat of Satan and the final Judgement (Revelation 20:7-15)
At the end of the Millennium SATAN IS LOOSED out of prison, and there is a worldwide battle between Gog and Magog (Babylon). SATAN AND HIS MINIONS ARE DEFEATED and the ungodly will be raptured. This is the second rapture.

Everyone including the saints in the first Rapture will stand before the Great White Throne of God along with the ungodly to be judged by Jesus Christ from the book of life. The saints in Christ are assured of eternal life with Him but whoever was not found in the book of life, the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, will be cast into the lake that burns with fire and sulphur along with death (Adam’s sin) and Hades (the grave) that will no longer be needed for this is the end of the world as we know it.

The New Heaven and the New Earth (Matthew 25 and Revelation 21-22)
The sheep and the goats have been separated; this is the second and final death for all eternity. Believers in Christ will remain with him in Glory while those who rejected him will return to the dust from which they came.
.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hello Dorothy, I found this on my computer from years back and thought it might be useful.

THE SECOND COMING​

Satan’s Seat
It was a maxim among the Jews, that where the law of God was not studied, there Satan dwelt. This is what is meant when people said “Where Satan’s seat is” or “Where Satan has his throne” or “where he reigns as king, and is universally obeyed.” Pergamos was one such place and was the centre of heathen idolatry with Satan in full residence. However, where a synagogue or academy was established Satan and his followers were obliged to leave that place.

Revelation 2:13 says, “I know that you live in the city where Satan has his throne, yet you have remained loyal to me. You refused to deny me even when Antipas, my faithful witness, was martyred among you there in Satan’s city.

Signs of Christ’s return (Matthew 24:6-8)
Although there will be wars and rumours of wars, famines, earthquakes and other natural disasters the believer should not be frightened for although these things need to take place this is not yet the end. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, there will be famines and earthquakes but these things are merely the first birth pangs.

Tribulation (Matthew 24:9-14 and Revelation chapters 6-16)
We could be in the Tribulation now since AD70 and the Roman destruction of the Temple.
The Antichrist will appear in the temple in Jerusalem which marks the beginning of distressing times the like of which has never been seen before. Lawlessness will increase, and there will be a false Messiah and false prophets who will perform signs and miracles. They will be so very convincing believers are warned against being deceived.

Christians will be killed, they will be hated by all nations and many will backslide but those who endure to the end will be held safe and secure by the Lamb including the 144,000 who will be sealed along with the great multitude of believers from all nations and their troubles will be of shorter duration.

(Note: based on Daniel the Tribulation is calculated to last for 3½ years (some say 7 years) but we need to be careful because a year in our time is not a year in the Lord’s time, the same as the cosmos' time when compared to earth time. Possibly the Tribulation could be of far longer duration than we think. It may have begun with Joseph Stalin, Mao-Tse-Tung, Pol Pot, Kim-Il-Sung, Fidel Castro, and Hitler who murdered millions of Christians and persecution continues today.) Remember the discussion not long ago about the age of the earth and the word yome?

Armageddon (Matthew 24:15-26) (Revelation 17-18)
There will be war between the major nations in the Battle of Armageddon in the Middle East. Babylon which metaphorically is the head of the pagan world will be destroyed (Revelation 18:1-24) and when people see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

There will be false messiahs who will show great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. “Behold, I have told you in advance. “So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them.

The Millennium and Christ’s return (Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation chapters 19 to 20)
In order that we are not deceived into thinking it is not the Lord we will be given a sign which will be the darkening of the sun and the moon, the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. The saints who suffered for Christ will live and reign with Him for 1000 years and their salvation is assured.

This is the first resurrection but it will not happen until the Jews say, “How blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!” (Matt 23) It begins with the Wedding-Feast of the Lamb, the beast and false prophet are taken prisoners and chained while those who had been martyred for their faith rule with Christ for a thousand years.

The defeat of Satan and the final Judgement (Revelation 20:7-15)
At the end of the Millennium SATAN IS LOOSED out of prison, and there is a worldwide battle between Gog and Magog (Babylon). SATAN AND HIS MINIONS ARE DEFEATED and the ungodly will be raptured. This is the second rapture.

Everyone including the saints in the first Rapture will stand before the Great White Throne of God along with the ungodly to be judged by Jesus Christ from the book of life. The saints in Christ are assured of eternal life with Him but whoever was not found in the book of life, the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, will be cast into the lake that burns with fire and sulphur along with death (Adam’s sin) and Hades (the grave) that will no longer be needed for this is the end of the world as we know it.

The New Heaven and the New Earth (Matthew 25 and Revelation 21-22)
The sheep and the goats have been separated; this is the second and final death for all eternity. Believers in Christ will remain with him in Glory while those who rejected him will return to the dust from which they came.
.

My very dear Cooper,

This thoughtful post requires a thoughtful answer and I’m only on my phone in the train en route to a walk in the mountains. I will give this an answer it deserves later.

•D

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Cooper, first I present my view (others hold this as well) in answer to these scriptures. Then in a second post I will poke holes in the presentation you posted, not your view so you have no stake in it, right?

In Matthew 24, Jesus' disciples ask him two different questions. This needs to be understood at the get go. Just because they asked them in succession does not mean they occur in history in succession. I will not be cutting and pasting quotes but will sprinkle them (from memory thank you very much) throughout my piece. I can provide the references but let me assume you know scripture well and recognize words strung together that I did not make up (scripture.) Here we go...

The first question they ask is WHEN will the destruction of the temple takes place that he had just predicted. He answered them with the wars and rumors of wars and various terrible calamities. One of these, a famine, was actually described in Acts. This was just the beginning of the time of trouble or tribulation but is not yet it. False Messiahs would appear and history records many of these happened leading many out in to the desert where the romans killed them. This happened a fair bit. He went onto say that they would suffer persecution and many be killed. This happened in this period as well. Delivered up to be killed, etc. He said the gospel would be preached to the world, which Paul said had happened in a letter he wrote and then the end would come.

The end of what? The world? Does not seem so as he went onto to explain how things would be in the many parables following Matthew 24. "Then it will be like...:" This describes the world after that time of trouble. So the end of what? The end of the Mosaic covenant and the Jewish age. It was the end of that age which has never returned. The Mosaic law is not followed with its sacrifices and so on. It is over. That cannot be questioned.

Now the ending of that was not only formal, it was in time and space and the blood of all the prophets killed from Abel to Zechariah were required of that generation. Remember how they cried at his trial, "his blood be upon us and upon our children?" Well, God took them at their word. Remember how Jesus told them to weep for themselves and not for him? That was because those who had pierced him would still be alive and see the day of God's wrath upon Israel for murdering his son and all the others murdered to include the christians.

By the way, the roman armies surrounded the city and then suddenly left for no good reason. It was then that the christians thought it was the fulfillment of Jesus' warning and all left to Jappa (or something similar.) No christians perished in the fall of Jerusalem. There was also a comet in the shape of a sword hanging over the city for one full year before it perished. Signs in the heavens.

If you are wondering about the stars and moon and coming in the clouds, that is an OT reference to when God is about to wipe out a nation. There are other references to God and clouds and the heavenly bodies in the OT and they always referred to this. Here are a few:

Isaiah 13:6-13 which was fulfilled
Isaiah 19:1 destruction
Egypt...coming in the clouds
Isaiah 34: 3-5 against Edom
Jeremiah 4, destruction of Jerusalem coming in clouds
Ezekiel 30-32 against Egypt reference to clouds
Ezekiel 32:6-8 sun and moon reference but not the literally sun and moon
Amos 8:9 son darkened,

Coming in the clouds is judgement and the references to the stars, sun and moon are references to the community authorities than enable the society to live in some kind of peace and security. The bedlam in Jerusalem that ensured before its destruction was unbelievable as no authors were supervising the city. The blood ran high as gangs roamed the street murdering people.

Now they asked Jesus a second question as to when he would return. He told them that there would be no signs at all. As in the days of Noah there would be normal life, marrying and eating and drinking..all normal. Before the flood there were no signs given that a flood was coming. None at all. So it will be when Jesus returns. What will happen? I believe the evil ones will be removed, not the righteous. I also believe that the Resurrection will occur and the Judgment of the living and the dead.

So I believe the terrible times are over, those terrible times at least and if you read about it, it was the worst that any people have suffered since the beginning of time. Mothers ate their children. Soldiers ate their belts. People were killed and crucified such that there were no longer any planks for the crosses. Titus, the Roman General in charge, is said to have looked up to Heaven and said, "you know this was not my doing" because the horrors were more than the Romans could have possibly inflicted. He thought God was involved in the fall because it was beyond what his armies could have done and he wanted the temple preserved in any case.

There is a lot more to be said but here is a synopsis.

-Dorothy

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hello Dorothy, I found this on my computer from years back and thought it might be useful.

THE SECOND COMING​

Satan’s Seat
It was a maxim among the Jews, that where the law of God was not studied, there Satan dwelt. This is what is meant when people said “Where Satan’s seat is” or “Where Satan has his throne” or “where he reigns as king, and is universally obeyed.” Pergamos was one such place and was the centre of heathen idolatry with Satan in full residence. However, where a synagogue or academy was established Satan and his followers were obliged to leave that place.

Revelation 2:13 says, “I know that you live in the city where Satan has his throne, yet you have remained loyal to me. You refused to deny me even when Antipas, my faithful witness, was martyred among you there in Satan’s city.

Yes, I have heard of this too and agree.

Signs of Christ’s return (Matthew 24:6-8)
Although there will be wars and rumours of wars, famines, earthquakes and other natural disasters the believer should not be frightened for although these things need to take place this is not yet the end. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, there will be famines and earthquakes but these things are merely the first birth pangs.

Those words are in answer not to the second coming but to the destruction of Jerusalem.

Tribulation (Matthew 24:9-14 and Revelation chapters 6-16)
We could be in the Tribulation now since AD70 and the Roman destruction of the Temple.

If this world is the "Tribulation" then the word has no meaning as life has been good for many many people over the course of the millennia. That does not match the description. Besides, 3.5 years was the time of terrible tribulation.

The Antichrist will appear in the temple in Jerusalem which marks the beginning of distressing times the like of which has never been seen before. Lawlessness will increase, and there will be a false Messiah and false prophets who will perform signs and miracles. They will be so very convincing believers are warned against being deceived.

You have a problem. There is no temple and no concrete plans to build one. Just rumors. So there is no temple.

Christians will be killed, they will be hated by all nations and many will backslide but those who endure to the end will be held safe and secure by the Lamb including the 144,000 who will be sealed along with the great multitude of believers from all nations and their troubles will be of shorter duration.

Well, I think that is over and the 144,000 are Jews of the 12 tribes in any case. That is also a problem as the records of the tribes has been lost in 70AD.

(Note: based on Daniel the Tribulation is calculated to last for 3½ years (some say 7 years) but we need to be careful because a year in our time is not a year in the Lord’s time, the same as the cosmos' time when compared to earth time. Possibly the Tribulation could be of far longer duration than we think. It may have begun with Joseph Stalin, Mao-Tse-Tung, Pol Pot, Kim-Il-Sung, Fidel Castro, and Hitler who murdered millions of Christians and persecution continues today.) Remember the discussion not long ago about the age of the earth and the word yome?

One can ignore the scripture but one needs to know that is what one is doing in favor of a preferred theory.

Armageddon (Matthew 24:15-26) (Revelation 17-18)
There will be war between the major nations in the Battle of Armageddon in the Middle East. Babylon which metaphorically is the head of the pagan world will be destroyed (Revelation 18:1-24) and when people see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

That happened in the first century and they fled. And if the whole world is controlled by an evil man, what good does it do to leave Jerusalem? Where is one to go? There is also no likelihood of anyone but the Muslims wanting that piece of land. There is nothing there of value.

There will be false messiahs who will show great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. “Behold, I have told you in advance. “So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them.

As I said, this happened in the first century and we know their names.

The Millennium and Christ’s return (Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation chapters 19 to 20)
In order that we are not deceived into thinking it is not the Lord we will be given a sign which will be the darkening of the sun and the moon, the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. The saints who suffered for Christ will live and reign with Him for 1000 years and their salvation is assured.

That is not a sign of his coming and he did not say it was. He said it was a sign of trouble coming, not Jesus.

This is the first resurrection but it will not happen until the Jews say, “How blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!” (Matt 23) It begins with the Wedding-Feast of the Lamb, the beast and false prophet are taken prisoners and chained while those who had been martyred for their faith rule with Christ for a thousand years.

The defeat of Satan and the final Judgement (Revelation 20:7-15)
At the end of the Millennium SATAN IS LOOSED out of prison, and there is a worldwide battle between Gog and Magog (Babylon). SATAN AND HIS MINIONS ARE DEFEATED and the ungodly will be raptured. This is the second rapture.

There is no word about a rapture in these verses.

Everyone including the saints in the first Rapture will stand before the Great White Throne of God along with the ungodly to be judged by Jesus Christ from the book of life. The saints in Christ are assured of eternal life with Him but whoever was not found in the book of life, the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, will be cast into the lake that burns with fire and sulphur along with death (Adam’s sin) and Hades (the grave) that will no longer be needed for this is the end of the world as we know it.

The problem in this is the book does not say "the saints in Christ are assured of eternal life" but those whose names are written in the book. The ones not written are judged based on what they did in this life. Now, I did not write this I just read it. There isn't a word about "accepting Jesus" and being assured of eternal life no matter what.

The New Heaven and the New Earth (Matthew 25 and Revelation 21-22)
The sheep and the goats have been separated; this is the second and final death for all eternity. Believers in Christ will remain with him in GlorYes,y while those who rejected him will return to the dust from which they came.
.

Yes, this is a description of judgement and the subsequent decisions by Jesus. You might not like this but the sheep and goats are judged based on choices they made in life, not whether they accepted or even believed in Jesus. There isn't a single word about what they believed. But of course, what you believe affects your actions more than we would like to think. We think what we tell ourselves we believe is what we believe. God sees what we do as evidence of what we believe. Yikes!! Something to think about.

 

[Cooper]

I need to pass on this Dorothy, I'm sorry.
.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I need to pass on this Dorothy, I'm sorry.
.

Sorry to hear that.

 

[Anaphora]

The destruction of the temple happens on 7th trump, when Jesus returns to Jerusalem to establish His kingdom. Titus didn't fulfill bible prophecy. The wall in Jerusalem is still their, jews pray at this wall. The current temple and wailing wall will be ashes when Jesus returns. Jesus will establish His own temple. Read Ezekiel chapter 40 to 48. Its about the new temple and duties of priests during Millennium. Titus didn't fully demolish Jerusalem in 70 A D. Parts of it still stand. Jesus will turn it to ashes and temple at 7 th trump. Their are few members who are resistant to the truth. When the truth is staring you in the face, theirs still no connection. Isaiah chapter 6, and romans chapter 11, God put spirit of slumber on some people. They have spiritual blinders on, and can't understand.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The destruction of the temple happens on 7th trump, when Jesus returns to Jerusalem to establish His kingdom.

Here are the verses about this:

Third Seal: Scarcity on Earth​

5When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales[c] in his hand. 6And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A [d]quart of wheat for a [e]denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”

Where is the coming of Jesus to Jerusalem in these?

Titus didn't fulfill bible prophecy. The wall in Jerusalem is still their, jews pray at this wall.

That wall was not a part of the temple. Jesus said the none of the stones of the TEMPLE would be left on one another, not the whole city. So yes, the roman army with the help of the Israelis people, fulfilled the prophesy, although it was actually Jesus who did. Neither of those two groups could have done so.

The current temple and wailing wall will be ashes when Jesus returns.

There is no temple in Jerusalem. None. There are synagogues but those are NOT THEE Temple. Why do you think there is one?

Jesus will establish His own temple. Read Ezekiel chapter 40 to 48. Its about the new temple and duties of priests during Millennium. Titus didn't fully demolish Jerusalem in 70 A D.

Everything except this wall was destroyed and ploughed under. The wall was saved so the Roman legion could have a wall against which they camped.

Parts of it still stand.

None of it stands. None at all. Why do you think it was left standing? No historian thinks this. The report is that it was so demolished that no-one would have known a city was there for centuries.

Jesus will turn it to ashes and temple at 7 th trump.

So you believe there will be a temple built just so Jesus can destroy it. Why would he do that?

Their are few members who are resistant to the truth. When the truth is staring you in the face, theirs still no connection. Isaiah chapter 6, and romans chapter 11, God put spirit of slumber on some people. They have spiritual blinders on, and can't understand.

Ah yes, the typical "only a few people know this but I AM ONE of these. Everyone else is blind and it is God's fault." Makes one feel good, I guess.

 

[eddif]

You have a problem. There is no temple and no concrete plans to build one. Just rumors. So there is no temple.

We are the temple. The plans were given by Jesus (it was called the great commission).
The plans were for a temple that had law in hearts and minds (worship inside people).

Well, I think that is over and the 144,000 are Jews of the 12 tribes in any case. That is also a problem as the records of the tribes has been lost in 70AD.

The record is in the book of life to be opened at the resurrection. Sweet in mouth bitter in stomach.

Yes, this is a description of judgement and the subsequent decisions by Jesus. You might not like this but the sheep and goats are judged based on choices they made in life, not whether they accepted or even believed in Jesus.

John 3:16 kjv
16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Their choice in life was (and still is for us) to believe in/on the work of Jesus. Even if it happened in Abraham’s bosom (where their spirit was still alive.

…..

Jesus tribulation was 3 1/2 years. The martyred disciples (time?).

You see great tribulation at the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.

Each time a saint/believer is matured it is their great tribulation (?).

The bound up tares will see their great tribulation for eternity. Individuals are discussed i Revelation 3:20

Now can I be off some? I think so. We do see through dark sunshades. One day we shall see face to face. We do not judge before the day.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We are the temple. The plans were given by Jesus (it was called the great commission).
The plans were for a temple that had law in hearts and minds (worship inside people).

Correct. But there was also the temple built by Herod that Jesus said would be destroyed.

Jesus tribulation was 3 1/2 years. The martyred disciples (time?).

You see great tribulation at the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.

Jesus did not have a tribulation but he talked about a time of great tribulation or trouble. It was in the years around Nero ending at his death. It was a very terrible time for believers.

Each time a saint/believer is matured it is their great tribulation (?).

Well, that renders the term "great tribulation" into nothing much or nothing different than normal life. When Jesus said there would be terrible trouble, he did not mean same old same old. I mean if great tribulation is really just some unpleasant difficulty, then it means nothing at all.

The bound up tares will see their great tribulation for eternity. Individuals are discussed i Revelation 3:20

I do not see that hell is called a time of great tribulation in the Bible. It is called a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth or suffering from the worm that dies not, but it is not called a tribulation that I can find. Words really do matter.

Now can I be off some? I think so. We do see through dark sunshades. One day we shall see face to face. We do not judge before the day.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Amen! Blessings on you today!

 

[eddif]

Years do go by/bye. I once heard this:
Birth of vision
Then
Death of vision
Then
Supernatural fulfillment of that vision

Abraham had a promise
The years seemed to take away the vision
Finally supernaturally his promised son was born.

God had a people
The people of God went astray
Punishment and blessings brought them to a better position,

A spiritual promise is made
Time passing seems to kill the promise
Supernatural fulfillment happens

The prophet makes a statement
People try and force a manifestation.
Finally the truth comes.

We try so hard and over and over we are sometimes tempted to grow weary. Look up for our redemption draws nigh.

eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Years do go by/bye. I once heard this:
Birth of vision
Then
Death of vision
Then
Supernatural fulfillment of that vision

Abraham had a promise
The years seemed to take away the vision
Finally supernaturally his promised son was born.

God had a people
The people of God went astray
Punishment and blessings brought them to a better position,

A spiritual promise is made
Time passing seems to kill the promise
Supernatural fulfillment happens

The prophet makes a statement
People try and force a manifestation.
Finally the truth comes.

We try so hard and over and over we are sometimes tempted to grow weary. Look up for our redemption draws nigh.

eddif

That is all true and a wise insight. It needs to be added that the fulfillment of the vision that was given and then died only happens in so far as the person receiving the promise lives in accordance with his requirements. Abraham had to obey.

 

[eddif]

That is all true and a wise insight. It needs to be added that the fulfillment of the vision that was given and then died only happens in so far as the person receiving the promise lives in accordance with his requirements. Abraham had to obey.

Philippians 2:13 kjv
13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Romans 7:18 kjv
18. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

I get a kick out of all this.
eddif presents over and over the killing of people 400 years before Jesus. With little interest of others. I present over and over the mini resurrection at the resurrection of Jesus. With little interest.

Dorothy Mae presents over and over the 70AD destruction off a physical temple.

What are we missing? Maybe the positive results of what happened.

I am thinking. Must need more praying and less thinking.

eddif

 

[Consecrated Life]

You need to be able to walk and chew gum in scriptural discernment.
Jesus said Herod's Temple would be destroyed, which it was .
He also said there would be a future Temple in which the image that makes desolate would be set up in the " Holy Place" for the forced worship under the penalty of death :

Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Herod's Temple never had the " abomination of desolation " set up for forced worship before or during it's destruction.
Understanding this is not brain surgery, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Either Jesus got it wrong and the abomination of desolation never happened when & where He said it would,
Or it is yet to happen when & where He said it would.
It can only be one or the other .
Either Jesus got it wrong / or lied, or He prophesized it exactly as it will one day happen.
Which do you say Jesus did ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You need to be able to walk and chew gum in scriptural discernment.
Jesus said Herod's Temple would be destroyed, which it was .
He also said there would be a future Temple in which the image that makes desolate would be set up in the " Holy Place" for the forced worship under the penalty of death :

Where does Jesus say there’s Herod’s temple AND a future one?

Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Herod's Temple never had the " abomination of desolation " set up for forced worship before or during it's destruction.

Yes it did. He didn’t say it was during its destruction. He says it was a sign the end is near.

Understanding this is not brain surgery, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Either Jesus got it wrong and the abomination of desolation never happened when & where He said it would,

It happened. I mean, it was a sign for them to leave Jerusalem. If the Jews ever build a temple on the Muslim dome of the rock, what difference will it make to a guy living in Cleveland if something that makes the Jews feel desolate matter?

So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.17Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak.

So what is the guy living in Cleveland supposed to do since he doesn’t live in Judea and needn’t flee it? But for those living there in 70 AD, it was the difference between life and death.

Or it is yet to happen when & where He said it would.
It can only be one or the other .
Either Jesus got it wrong / or lied, or He prophesized it exactly as it will one day happen.
Which do you say Jesus did ?

He told them when to leave Jerusalem. That’s it. It means nothing whatsoever to anyone else. It’s just a sign to leave the city. It happened and they did.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Herod's Temple never had the " abomination of desolation " set up for forced worship before or during it's destruction.
Understanding this is not brain surgery, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Yes it did. He didn’t say it was during its destruction. He says it was a sign the end is near.

When do you say Herod's Temple had the abomination of desolation standing the holy place , and what proof do you offer for that ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

There are a few reasonable conclusions that it happened.

1. All the christians left the city before it’s destruction as Jesus said to do.

2. If it happened tomorrow it would no meaning whatsoever for any of us. No destruction is threatening Jerusalem and leaving where we all live is but what Jesus said.

3. Historically it was either a caesar who set of a statue of himself to be worshipped or a pig offering, but I don’t remember which. In any case, those who lived in Judea fled. Good thing or they would have died. Means nothing to us today as we don’t live in Judea.

 

[Consecrated Life]

There are a few reasonable conclusions that it happened.

1. All the christians left the city before it’s destruction as Jesus said to do.

2. If it happened tomorrow it would no meaning whatsoever for any of us. No destruction is threatening Jerusalem and leaving where we all live is but what Jesus said.

3. Historically it was either a caesar who set of a statue of himself to be worshipped or a pig offering, but I don’t remember which. In any case, those who lived in Judea fled. Good thing or they would have died. Means nothing to us today as we don’t live in Judea.

You offer no historical account to prove that any desolation occurred in Herod's Temple.
Sorry, but your personal speculation adds nothing at best in terms of established historical proof.

This is how you offer something of real peer reviewed historical account where the Temple is concerned.
And please note that this is not Caesar who is being spoken of here doing the desecrating:


Antiochus IV (Epiphanes), the king of Syria, captured Jerusalem in 167 BC and desecrated the Temple by offering the sacrifice of a pig on an altar to Zeus (the Abomination of Desolation). In seeking to prohibit Judaism and Hellenize the Jews, Antiochus forbade their religious practices and commanded that copies of the Law be burned, all of which is related by Josephus in the Antiquities of the Jews (XII.5.4).