The destruction of the temple in 70AD, how do futurists deal with this?

[Consecrated Life]

Regarding the word "earth."
For the Israilites, the land of Israel is the whole earth. When people visit Israel they are going to "The Land of Israel" but the land of Israel does not cover the whole globe and neither did the flood. Let the Bible explain itself.
.

So your understanding is that the beast will only cause those in Israel to worship him?

Rev 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Regarding the word "earth."
For the Israilites, the land of Israel is the whole earth. When people visit Israel they are going to "The Land of Israel" but the land of Israel does not cover the whole globe and neither did the flood. Let the Bible explain itself.

Then why did they leave Egypt if that is also Israel to them? If everywhere in the planet is Israel, there’s no leaving Israel or coming into the “promised land” as opposed to other places. Your other verses don’t indicate that they thought this. Seems to be local.

In Exodus 10:5 a plague of Locusts "covered the face of the whole earth."

Earth means local land or dirt.

“Contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe”

14The locusts came up over all the land of Egypt and settled on the whole country of Egypt, such a dense swarm of locusts as had never been before, nor ever will be again. 15They covered the face of the whole land, so that the land was darkened, and they ate all the plants in the land and all the fruit of the trees that the hail had left.

Correct, “earth” just means local as in dirt.

But what you wrote seems to be inconsistent. To Israel the whole earth is their land but it isn’t their land. Maybe I misunderstood.

Quite clearly the locusts did not cover the whole globe, they only covered the land of Egypt and then probably not all of it.

In Numbers 22:5,11 we read that after the Israelites were delivered from Egypt and settled in Canaan they "Covered the face of the earth."
This is simply their way of saying they occupied the land in which they were dwelling.

Ok, earth means land. We agree.

When Cain went to the Land of Nod the Bible says "Behold thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Gen 4:14) The earth for him was the place where he lived.

Same as elsewhere. Same as in the predictions of Revelation or Mathew 24. It means local, not worldwide.

When the devil tempted Jesus he took him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. The kingdoms of the world were what they could see i.e. local. (Matthew 4:8)

The same idiom is used to describe the Israelite conquest of Canaan,
Deut 2:25 This day I will begin to put the dread and fear of you on the peoples who are under the whole heaven, who shall hear the report of you and shall tremble and be in anguish because of you. Incas and Inuit weren't trembling in anguish, it was the people in the region, Canaanites Moabites and Edomites.

When the Bible talks about the whole land or the face of the earth, it means the land or the earth of Israel and not the whole globe. Noah did not go to Australia to collect kangaroos, or to the North Pole to collect penguins. The animals that went into the ark were local to him.

In Exodus 10:5 a plague of Locusts "covered the face of the whole earth."
Quite clearly the locusts did not cover the whole globe, they only covered the land of Egypt and then probably not all of it.

In Numbers 22:5,11 we read that after the Israelites were delivered from Egypt and settled in Canaan they "Covered the face of the earth."
This is simply their way of saying they occupied the land in which they were dwelling.

When Cain went to the Land of Nod the Bible says "Behold thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Gen 4:14) The earth for him was the place where he lived.

When the devil tempted Jesus he took him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. The kingdoms of the world were what they could see i.e. local. (Matthew 4:8)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Revelation 13 is about the false prophet, the antichrist, and Satan.
.

Revelation never mentions Antichrist. Only Johns letters do. That character isn’t in the Revelation of John, at least not mentioned.

 

[Cooper]

So your understanding is that the beast will only cause those in Israel to worship him?

Rev 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed

Possibly.
.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So it is your understanding there is no "designated period of time" that the " beast will be allowed to rule .
The beast sets his own schedule to rule as long as he pleases
An interesting theory. but you do realize there is nobody else here who believes such a thing ?

You are incorrect. And the number of believers dropping Dispensationalism and the futurist position is growing as they are learning of the events that happened 65-70AD. It was only really popular in the US in any case.

The “beast” ruled and did horrible things for 3.5 years and it was over. It was the then known world. He made war and defeated the believers for a time as it says.

 

[Cooper]

Then why did they leave Egypt if that is also Israel to them? If everywhere in the planet is Israel, there’s no leaving Israel or coming into the “promised land” as opposed to other places. Your other verses don’t indicate that they thought this. Seems to be local.

Earth means local land or dirt.

“Contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe”

14The locusts came up over all the land of Egypt and settled on the whole country of Egypt, such a dense swarm of locusts as had never been before, nor ever will be again. 15They covered the face of the whole land, so that the land was darkened, and they ate all the plants in the land and all the fruit of the trees that the hail had left.

Correct, “earth” just means local as in dirt.

But what you wrote seems to be inconsistent. To Israel the whole earth is their land but it isn’t their land. Maybe I misunderstood.

Ok, earth means land. We agree.

Same as elsewhere. Same as in the predictions of Revelation or Mathew 24. It means local, not worldwide.

Revelation never mentions Antichrist. Only Johns letters do. That character isn’t in the Revelation of John, at least not mentioned.

The Israelites never considered Egypt to be Israel. Egypt was a foreign land. (Land/earth can be anywhere depending on context)

This is what the Summarised Bible says about Revelation 13
Contents: The beast out of the sea and the beast out of the earth.
Characters: God, Christ, John, false prophet, anti-christ, Satan.
Conclusion: In the midst of the Tribulation period there shall rise up two great world leaders, one a political leader inspired by Satan himself, the other religious leader to deceive the people with strong delusions and either lead them or force them to worship the anti-christ as the long expected world-ruler. These two Satanic deceivers shall prevail upon all except those who risk all to boldly acknowledge their belief in the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world.

Key Word: Two beasts, Rev_13:1, Rev_13:11.
Strong Verses: Rev_13:18.

Striking Facts: Rev_13:8. Salvation in the Great Tribulation is still based on the blood of Jesus Christ. Those who are then saved, however, must boldly confess their faith before a world of hostile witnesses, which will mean nothing short of martyrdom, except to those few sealed in Israel. May God help every reader of these words to make sure their calling and election while the days of grace are still lasting!
.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You are not answering the first question I asked concerning your claim that the Ancient Jews were forced to worship Caesar at the Temple?

Where does scripture says the Jews will be forced to worship? First show me where they’re forced in scripture.

What historical texts are you basing this claim on ?

Caligula aimed at setting up at state in the temple. I will have to look into the other particulars. But what cannot be denied is that the believers saw the armies surrounding Jerusalem and thought the fulfillment was before them and left. They didn’t see it as coming in 2000 years plus.

Lets take care of that question first and then I will be more than happy to answer any question you have to follow.
Do we have a deal ?

If you can show me where the Jews alone are forced to worship. The scripture you quote says “causes” which is not forced. And Caesar caused people to worship him, most of them. In any case, the Romans certainly worshipped the Roman culture. It got a deadly wound too. People are more likely to worship their nation than a man. Today we call it “nationalism.”

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The Israelites never considered Egypt to be Israel. Egypt was a foreign land. (Land/earth can be anywhere depending on context)

I agree.

This is what the Summarised Bible says about Revelation 13
Contents: The beast out of the sea and the beast out of the earth.
Characters: God, Christ, John, false prophet, anti-christ, Satan.
Conclusion: In the midst of the Tribulation period there shall rise up two great world leaders, one a political leader inspired by Satan himself, the other religious leader to deceive the people with strong delusions and either lead them or force them to worship the anti-christ as the long expected world-ruler. These two Satanic deceivers shall prevail upon all except those who risk all to boldly acknowledge their belief in the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world.

Well, this is one particular eschatology, futurism. There is no “Great Tribulation” period in the Bible but there was a 3.5 years of great tribulation or trouble. No world leader is mentioned as far as no scripture has been sited that says this. No one is”forced” to worship but “caused” which is quite different and can be marketing in action. Marketing causes decisions especially emotional ones.

Key Word: Two beasts, Rev_13:1, Rev_13:11.
Strong Verses: Rev_13:18.

Striking Facts: Rev_13:8. Salvation in the Great Tribulation is still based on the blood of Jesus Christ. Those who are then saved, however, must boldly confess their faith before a world of hostile witnesses, which will mean nothing short of martyrdom, except to those few sealed in Israel. May God help every reader of these words to make sure their calling and election while the days of grace are still lasting!
.

Well, I have the peace of seeing that again the past and never coming again. Believing this as you describe takes a lot of faith. People all over the world protested those covid injections so I can’t see the whole world, including atheists, starting to embrace pagan worship of what is clearly a man. And actually, since worship is in the heart, it cannot be forced. It can be caused but not commanded. But those are just my doubts of that position.

I’m strongly persuaded it is over and do feel free of those fears. I think it’s a position worth considering as so many scriptures become clear. The parables open up.

 

[Cooper]

I agree.

Well, this is one particular eschatology, futurism. There is no “Great Tribulation” period in the Bible but there was a 3.5 years of great tribulation or trouble. No world leader is mentioned as far as no scripture has been sited that says this. No one is”forced” to worship but “caused” which is quite different and can be marketing in action. Marketing causes decisions especially emotional ones.

Well, I have the peace of seeing that again the past and never coming again. Believing this as you describe takes a lot of faith. People all over the world protested those covid injections so I can’t see the whole world, including atheists, starting to embrace pagan worship of what is clearly a man. And actually, since worship is in the heart, it cannot be forced. It can be caused but not commanded. But those are just my doubts of that position.

I’m strongly persuaded it is over and do feel free of those fears. I think it’s a position worth considering as so many scriptures become clear. The parables open up.

Prophesy is a difficult subject. I tend to leave it alone.

 

[Cooper]

I have a Catholic friend who fears there might be a rogue Pope who joins with a Russian leader.

People adore the Pope.

Worrying times ahead I fear. Just my view.
.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Prophesy is a difficult subject. I tend to leave it alone.

I can understand that.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I have a Catholic friend who fears there might be a rogue Pope who joins with a Russian leader.

People adore the Pope.

Worrying times ahead I fear. Just my view.
.

Worrying times? yes. Nuclear war is on the table. Many troubles.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Cooper, what is a rogue Pope? And what could he possibly do? Putin is staunchly orthodox. There’s not much love lost between the orthodox and catholics.

 

[for_his_glory]

It occurred to me that animal rights activists will have a field day should that practice ever arise again. Can you imagine the priests wanting to kill an animal not for food even but just to appeases god? And the vegan-to-save-the-planet types ought to go out of their vegan minds. Ruining the planet by raising animals just to slaughter them in a religious ceremony!!!

All those Jews still waiting for a Messiah that is going to literally sit on the throne of David being a monetary richly king to rule over Israel. I could only imagine the look on their face when Jesus returns 2

 

[Consecrated Life]

So your understanding is that the beast will only cause those in Israel to worship him?

Rev 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed

Possibly.
.

That is an amazing possibility, offering great hope for escape from suffering and persecution at the hands of the beast for all non-jewish post-trib adherents .

 

[Consecrated Life]

You are incorrect. And the number of believers dropping Dispensationalism and the futurist position is growing as they are learning of the events that happened 65-70AD. It was only really popular in the US in any case.

The “beast” ruled and did horrible things for 3.5 years and it was over. It was the then known world. He made war and defeated the believers for a time as it says.

So you are a no-tribber.
You do realize that you are the solitary no-tribber on this web site ?
Why do you think that no one else believes in no-trib ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Where does scripture says the Jews will be forced to worship? First show me where they’re forced in scripture.

Rev 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed
.

These are the Jews being forced to worship the beast .

 

[Cooper]

Cooper, what is a rogue Pope? And what could he possibly do? Putin is staunchly orthodox. There’s not much love lost between the orthodox and catholics.

My terminology, meaning a Pope who seeks one religion worldwide with himself at the head, giving himself worldwide domination over peoples hearts and minds, joining forces with Russia the bear. Frightful. During which tribulation people are numbered or killed for refusing to bow down to the Pope. Jews for one are not going to bow down to the Pope are they, and neither will Muslims who are also on Temple Mount. After which time three and a half years later, Jesus will return in power. Come Lord Jesus.
.

 

[n2thelight]

And yet you believe without a doubt that modern Jews (most of whom are atheists) will be gullible enough to worship a mere man who performs tricks? All
of them….

Do you believe Jesus was the Messiah? Because scripture says “his name will be Emmanuel” and that wasn’t his name. So scripture wasn’t fulfilled right?

It's not just a mere man , it's satan himself , a supernatural entity , most of the world will worship him for the simple fact they will believe him to be Christ

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's not just a mere man , it's satan himself , a supernatural entity , most of the world will worship him for the simple fact they will believe him to be Christ

Where does the Bible say the whole world will worship Satan? Where does it say that the antichrist you believe is coming isn’t a man at all but Satan?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

My terminology, meaning a Pope who seeks one religion worldwide with himself at the head, giving himself worldwide domination over peoples hearts and minds, joining forces with Russia the bear. Frightful. During which tribulation people are numbered or killed for refusing to bow down to the Pope. Jews for one are not going to bow down to the Pope are they, and neither will Muslims who are also on Temple Mount. After which time three and a half years later, Jesus will return in power. Come Lord Jesus.
.

So you don’t believe the whole world will worship him, right?