The Eternal Kingdom/Reign of Jesus Christ

[Quantrill]

Because the NT writers are writing after the fact of the Incarnation, when Jesus Christ became the God-Man. They are therefore referring to Jesus as the Son as He is known after His human birth! look at #96

So? Of course the New Testament writers wrote after the Incarnation. That proves nothing for you. Revelation is progressive. That is why you have an Old and New Testament.

No, when the Son became, Who we know as, Jesus Christ. The God/Man.

No, they are referring to the Son as Jesus.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Jesus Christ after His Resurrection had His human body as before His death, but modified. He still has this same body today in heaven. He will have the same body at His Second Coming. Whether He will ever be in this body, Scripture does not tell us.

Do you believe in the Eternal Generation of the Son from the Father?

What is modified?

You say Scripture does not tell us. Just like you say there is no Scripture in the Old Testament that says concerning God that He has a Son. Then when I show you one, you just reject it. And I did show you that the Son will have the same body forever. (Ex. 21:6)

I don't know what you mean by the 'Eternal Generation of the Son from the Father'. Explain. I will say, that because of our discussion thus far, I can pretty much tell you I will not agree with it. But explain it with Scripture.

Quantrill

 

[Free]

Because the NT writers are writing after the fact of the Incarnation, when Jesus Christ became the God-Man. They are therefore referring to Jesus as the Son as He is known after His human birth! look at #96

You seem to be missing the point. They are referring to Jesus as the Son but applying his sonship to eternity past. There really is no getting around it.

Anyways, this is going to go nowhere, so I am out.

 

[SolaScriptura]

You seem to be missing the point. They are referring to Jesus as the Son but applying his sonship to eternity past. There really is no getting around it.

Anyways, this is going to go nowhere, so I am out.

WHERE is ANY reference to The Son of God in the Old Testament? Just ONE will do!

 

[SolaScriptura]

What is modified?

You say Scripture does not tell us. Just like you say there is no Scripture in the Old Testament that says concerning God that He has a Son. Then when I show you one, you just reject it. And I did show you that the Son will have the same body forever. (Ex. 21:6)

I don't know what you mean by the 'Eternal Generation of the Son from the Father'. Explain. I will say, that because of our discussion thus far, I can pretty much tell you I will not agree with it. But explain it with Scripture.

Quantrill

I will start a new thread on this, as this one is for The Eternal Kingdom/Reign of Jesus Christ

 

[Quantrill]

I will start a new thread on this, as this one is for The Eternal Kingdom/Reign of Jesus Christ

No, you will start a new thread, because you have failed in this thread. That's fine. I will participate.

I can't wait to see how you avoid the questions there also.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

WHERE is ANY reference to The Son of God in the Old Testament? Just ONE will do!

You were given one. (Pro. 30:4)

And, my question in post #(102) pertains to the Resurrected Body of Jesus Christ. That had to do with the eternal servitude of Jesus Christ, which is the subject of this thread.

So please answer. What do you mean that the Body of Christ was 'modified'? Is it the same Body He had when He walked this earth?

Quantrill

 

[SolaScriptura]

You were given one. (Pro. 30:4)

And, my question in post #(102) pertains to the Resurrected Body of Jesus Christ. That had to do with the eternal servitude of Jesus Christ, which is the subject of this thread.

So please answer. What do you mean that the Body of Christ was 'modified'? Is it the same Body He had when He walked this earth?

Quantrill

The verse in Psalm 30 does not assert the Son of God, as it is merely a question that Solomon is asking. As I have said many times, where in the OT do we have the Son of God mentioned, or doing anything? If He was in the OT, then why is He silent, whereas the Holy Spirit is active?

After His Resurrection, Jesus' Body was not the same, prior to the Resurrection. We read, for example in Luke 24:31

"Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight"

And, John 20:19, it says

"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”"

and verse 26

"Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”

In the former instance, Jesus simply "vanished" while speaking to the two men. In the latter, the doors were locked, and Jesus "stepped into the midst”, suddenly appeared among them.

There is no record in the Four Gospels, where Jesus did this at any time before His Resurrection.

 

[Randy]

The verse in Psalm 30 does not assert the Son of God, as it is merely a question that Solomon is asking. As I have said many times, where in the OT do we have the Son of God mentioned, or doing anything? If He was in the OT, then why is He silent, whereas the Holy Spirit is active?

After His Resurrection, Jesus' Body was not the same, prior to the Resurrection. We read, for example in Luke 24:31

"Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight"

And, John 20:19, it says

"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”"

and verse 26

"Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”

In the former instance, Jesus simply "vanished" while speaking to the two men. In the latter, the doors were locked, and Jesus "stepped into the midst”, suddenly appeared among them.

There is no record in the Four Gospels, where Jesus did this at any time before His Resurrection.

Why would Solomon ask a question do we know the name of the Son of the one who established all the ends of the earth if no such Son existed? We know God established all the ends of the earth.

It doesn't appear you can accept anything given you.

 

[Randy]

the Greek reads, "τοῦ Ἀδὰμ τοῦ θεοῦ", of Adam, of God", there is no "the son" in the Greek!

Isn't that the same for all the names given?
They are Sons.

 

[Randy]

The verse in Psalm 30 does not assert the Son of God, as it is merely a question that Solomon is asking. As I have said many times, where in the OT do we have the Son of God mentioned, or doing anything? If He was in the OT, then why is He silent, whereas the Holy Spirit is active?

After His Resurrection, Jesus' Body was not the same, prior to the Resurrection. We read, for example in Luke 24:31

"Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight"

And, John 20:19, it says

"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”"

and verse 26

"Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”

In the former instance, Jesus simply "vanished" while speaking to the two men. In the latter, the doors were locked, and Jesus "stepped into the midst”, suddenly appeared among them.

There is no record in the Four Gospels, where Jesus did this at any time before His Resurrection.

The verse in Psalm 30 does not assert the Son of God, as it is merely a question that Solomon is asking. As I have said many times, where in the OT do we have the Son of God mentioned, or doing anything? If He was in the OT, then why is He silent, whereas the Holy Spirit is active?

After His Resurrection, Jesus' Body was not the same, prior to the Resurrection. We read, for example in Luke 24:31

"Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight"

And, John 20:19, it says

"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”"

and verse 26

"Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”

In the former instance, Jesus simply "vanished" while speaking to the two men. In the latter, the doors were locked, and Jesus "stepped into the midst”, suddenly appeared among them.

There is no record in the Four Gospels, where Jesus did this at any time before His Resurrection.

The firstborn from the dead suggests Jesus's resurrection differed from those raised from the dead before Him. As in a new body. However using your own criteria please show us where it states Jesus's body differed as it is not beyond the power of God for Jesus to appear and reappear at Will in a human body.

 

[Quantrill]

The verse in Psalm 30 does not assert the Son of God, as it is merely a question that Solomon is asking. As I have said many times, where in the OT do we have the Son of God mentioned, or doing anything? If He was in the OT, then why is He silent, whereas the Holy Spirit is active?

After His Resurrection, Jesus' Body was not the same, prior to the Resurrection. We read, for example in Luke 24:31

"Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight"

And, John 20:19, it says

"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”"

and verse 26

"Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”

In the former instance, Jesus simply "vanished" while speaking to the two men. In the latter, the doors were locked, and Jesus "stepped into the midst”, suddenly appeared among them.

There is no record in the Four Gospels, where Jesus did this at any time before His Resurrection.

Just because (Ps. 30:4) is in the form of a question doesn't mean what it is saying is not true. Go through all the questions God asked of Job in (Job 38). For example: (38:4) "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?" What is the truth? It was God who laid the foundations of the earth. Just because it is a question doesn't matter one wit.

(Pro. 30:4) is the same. "what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" A clear declaration that God created the earth and has a Son.

Jesus body was not the same only in that it was a Resurrected body. But it was the same body He had when He walked the earth. Did He not show Thomas the scars on His hands and the hole in his side? And we don't know that He didn't walk through walls on this earth. After all, He did walk on water with that body.

Point being, the Body Jesus has now is the same body He had on earth, only Glorified and Resurrected. Which takes us back to (Heb. 10:5) "...Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:" Which takes us back to (Ps. 40:6) "Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened:...." Which takes us back to (Ex. 21:6) "Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his eaer through with and aul; and he shall serve him for ever."

In other words, the eternal servitude of Jesus Christ the Son, to the Father. Which is in agreement with (1 Cor. 15:28) "then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him"

A clear declaration.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

I would like to say more on something that I already brought up in my post #(49). There I quoted (Ps. 2:7) "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

And in proving that day was the Resurrection, I quoted (Ps. 13:33) "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."

The Son as God the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity has always existed as God. He was never 'begotten'. But, the Son, having become Man, having been given a body, would experience being 'begotten'. That would not be at the Incarnation. It would be at the Resurrection.

At the Resurrection, the Holy Spirit raised up Jesus Christ and forever united the Son with the Body given Him. That was literally Jesus Christ being 'born again'. New Birth. This is why we use the term 'born-again.

Now, just as the Resurrection is where Jesus Christ was born-again, so also is it the birthing room for the believer when he comes and places faith in Christ. (1 Peter 1:3) "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."

The same power of the Holy Spirit that raised up Jesus at the Resurrection is the same power that gives us new birth when we placed faith in Jesus Christ.

The birthing room for the children of God is the Resurrection, the same as He Who is the First begotten. We follow Him. (Rom. 8:29) Born-again.

Quantrill

 

[Randy]

I would like to say more on something that I already brought up in my post #(49). There I quoted (Ps. 2:7) "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

And in proving that day was the Resurrection, I quoted (Ps. 13:33) "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."

The Son as God the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity has always existed as God. He was never 'begotten'. But, the Son, having become Man, having been given a body, would experience being 'begotten'. That would not be at the Incarnation. It would be at the Resurrection.

At the Resurrection, the Holy Spirit raised up Jesus Christ and forever united the Son with the Body given Him. That was literally Jesus Christ being 'born again'. New Birth. This is why we use the term 'born-again.

Now, just as the Resurrection is where Jesus Christ was born-again, so also is it the birthing room for the believer when he comes and places faith in Christ. (1 Peter 1:3) "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."

The same power of the Holy Spirit that raised up Jesus at the Resurrection is the same power that gives us new birth when we placed faith in Jesus Christ.

The birthing room for the children of God is the Resurrection, the same as He Who is the First begotten. We follow Him. (Rom. 8:29) Born-again.

Quantrill

The Father never stated He always was. NEVER
He stated
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

“You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me

The only understanding given from above in a beginning question is not yes or no but
"If the Father has a beginning it could NOT be by any other being"

Jesus is of the Father and the fullness was gifted not created
"The fullness was pleased to dwell in Him" - From the will of another

So as long as there has been the Son He has always been all that the Father is. - The image of the invisible God.
Jesus has His own spirit -"Father into your hands I commit My spirit"

 

[Quantrill]

The Father never stated He always was. NEVER
He stated
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

“You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me

The only understanding given from above in a beginning question is not yes or no but
"If the Father has a beginning it could NOT be by any other being"

Jesus is of the Father and the fullness was gifted not created
"The fullness was pleased to dwell in Him" - From the will of another

So as long as there has been the Son He has always been all that the Father is. - The image of the invisible God.
Jesus has His own spirit -"Father into your hands I commit My spirit"

I don't understand what you're trying to say. When you try and say something, provide the Scripture for it. Else it is just you.

Quantrill

 

[Randy]

I don't understand what you're trying to say. When you try and say something, provide the Scripture for it. Else it is just you.

Quantrill

I thought I was clear. There is no scripture that states God, (the Father), alway was. God never made such a statement.
In regard to the Son Jesus calls the Father the one true God if He always was and always was God how does this believe in one God for Jesus stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit My spirit"?

 

[SolaScriptura]

I don't understand what you're trying to say. When you try and say something, provide the Scripture for it. Else it is just you.

Quantrill

much like what you say most of the time! which is your personal, unbiblical "theology"!

 

[SolaScriptura]

Jesus is of the Father and the fullness was gifted not created

exactly what does this mean?

 

[Quantrill]

I thought I was clear. There is no scripture that states God, (the Father), alway was. God never made such a statement.
In regard to the Son Jesus calls the Father the one true God if He always was and always was God how does this believe in one God for Jesus stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit My spirit"?

Are you saying there was a time when you believe God did not exist?

Belief in one God does not nullify the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are God. One God but three Persons.

Quantrill

 

[Randy]

Are you saying there was a time when you believe God did not exist?

Belief in one God does not nullify the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are God. One God but three Persons.

Quantrill

I am stating I don't know with any certainty that the Father alway existed because He never stated that. He stated no God was formed before Him. He is the beginning and the end. I do know with certainty that if the Father has a beginning it could not be from any other being.