The False Security of Eternal Security

[BornAgain]

Yes I know. I get it. You are unaware of your salvation and do not believe God can do anything for you. That's why I say good luck to you, and hope you make it.

I cannot believe you said that...good luck?

Matthew 7:1-2 (KJV)
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

 

[smaller]

Correct...but I just posted a thread on twisting scripture....please read that and then respond. The bible is not a smorgasbord that we can pick and choose from.

Failure to account for the other party will continue to result in both divisions and frustrations within the theology arena and that is actually where God in Christ has put them and where they may very likely remain in this present life.

Some will see it. Most won't.

s

 

[BornAgain]

Failure to account for the other party will continue to result in both divisions and frustrations within the theology arena and that is actually where God in Christ has put them and where they may very likely remain in this present life.

Some will see it. Most won't.

s

Matthew 7:14 (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[smaller]

Matthew 7:14 (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

That's what I love about theology. Obvious solutions and observations can be set right in front of everyone and it remains hidden.

You and I would read many scriptures in almost an exact opposite fashion with almost exact opposite conclusions. The difference is I know 'how' you will read them in advance and you will have zero understanding of how I could see otherwise nor would you understand. Just as many of the 'works' salvation folk. They in fact read the scriptures just like the Pharisees did. They used the scriptures to justify themselves every time. I read exactly the opposite way. From the seat of weakness.

What's even more bizarre is that every works salvation person down to the last one believes that they are in fact saved at the point they are posting. Seldom if ever do they measure their own position to themselves.

So in effect everyone in this thread presenting non-eternal security also believes they are 'presently secure.'

I think it's quite entertaining myself.

In order to convince Grace Alone folk they really should make a presentation on how they themselves might not be saved. But y'all think you are regardless. So you're really not much different than the Grace Alone camps.

s

 

[heymikey80]

Unbelievable that I cannot get a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer to such simple questons.

Actually, it's unbelievable you won't answer questions you think are simple 'yes' or 'no' questions.

I don't consider your contradictory and non sequitur questions to be simple 'yes' or 'no' questions. But here is a question you consider simple.

Y'gonna answer it? Is Paul the Apostle a Christian?

Because Paul stated "I am the chief of sinners". He considered himself a sinner while being a Christian.

The fact is, repentance demands that there be something to repent of. What is it Christians repent of, if they do not sin? Do they repent of good works?! No.

If they do sin, how are they complying with the command to repent of sin? Repentance is turning away from sin.

Repentance is turning. Yet Christians sin.

And Christ forgives.

So the Christian is constantly in the process of committing sins, and being forgiven and repenting of sins.

The Christian is a sinner.

 

[BornAgain]

That's what I love about theology. Obvious solutions and observations can be set right in front of everyone and it remains hidden.

Theology: Rational study of religion and its influences and of the nature of religious truths.

You and I would read many scriptures in almost an exact opposite fashion with almost exact opposite conclusions. The difference is I know 'how' you will read them in advance and you will have zero understanding of how I could see otherwise nor would you understand. Just as many of the 'works' salvation folk. They in fact read the scriptures just like the Pharisees did. They used the scriptures to justify themselves every time. I read exactly the opposite way. From the seat of weakness.

It is not how I see it or how you see it, it is the way it is told. Twisting scripture to fit one's own belief.

What's even more bizarre is that every works salvation person down to the last one believes that they are in fact saved at the point they are posting. Seldom if ever do they measure their own position to themselves.{/QUOTE]

What is your position? If God were to strike me dead right now would I have eternal security? Would you?

So in effect everyone in this thread presenting non-eternal security also believes they are 'presently secure.'

No

I think it's quite entertaining myself. [/QUOTE]

If you are posting for entertainment value, how are you saving anybody?


I think that people watching our threads are not here for pure entertainment value and you are deceiving most. Are you here to entertain or reach people who are watching and listening to what you have to offer?

You present yourself in a manner and then take it away with your demeaning and righteous attitude. What do you have to be so proud of?

In order to convince Grace Alone folk they really should make a presentation on how they themselves might not be saved. But y'all think you are regardless. So you're really not much different than the Grace Alone camps.

Tell "the folks" how they should make it right.

 

[smaller]

Theology: Rational study of religion and its influences and of the nature of religious truths. It is not how I see it or how you see it, it is the way it is told. Twisting scripture to fit one's own belief. No

Well, how many times in your life have you been saved and lost for starters?

Everyone of you who holds temporary salvation must have thought you lost it at some time and then re-instated same.

If you are posting for entertainment value, how are you saving anybody?

I'm not in the biz of saving people. God in Christ is.

I think that people watching our threads are not here for pure entertainment value and you are deceiving most. Are you here to entertain or reach people who are watching and listening to what you have to offer?

This is a theology forum. No unbeliever is technically allowed to post.

Perhaps you would like to throw out some fire and brimstone for the imaginary unsaved masses you think are reading your posts, to, you know, scare them into your mindset?

You present yourself in a manner and then take it away with your demeaning and righteous attitude. What do you have to be so proud of? Tell "the folks" how they should make it right.

Tell the folks? That is so funny. You seriously think you have an audience?

These Words have been stated multiple times to any reader, I am certain:

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Now, add your caveat that it's only MAYBE.

And don't forget to insert your re-salvation X times formulas so the unsaved masses can read those too.

Let's see. I didn't follow the rules I think are in play, so now I'm not saved or at least might not be, so NOW I have to rehearse some odd and various assortments of incantations and formulas to RE-save myself.

Rinse and repeat ad-infinitum.

s

 

[heymikey80]

These Words have been stated multiple times to any reader, I am certain:

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Now, add your caveat that it's only MAYBE.

And don't forget to insert your re-salvation X times formulas so the unsaved masses can read those too.

Let's see. I didn't follow the rules I think are in play, so now I'm not saved or at least might not be, so NOW I have to rehearse some odd and various assortments of incantations and formulas to RE-save myself.

Rinse and repeat ad-infinitum.

s

Which itself is a good point. I've not thought about that verse that way.

Normally the desire I've seen is to quibble about say, Romans 8:38-39:

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 8:38-39

If my continued life separates me from God's love in Christ, then Paul's simply, flat-out stating a falsehood.

 

[Cassian]

Yes I know. I get it. You are unaware of your salvation and do not believe God can do anything for you. That's why I say good luck to you, and hope you make it.

Your faith is so weak and small that you can easily walk away from it. Here today, gone the next. You have to work hard to keep what you have. This is what you described clearly, and i understand. You could could easily get up one day and just decide to replace God with something else. Who knows

Your hope lies in you and you alone, to maintain what little you have managed to muster. That's the hope in you, that you defend and have expressed clearly.

I think your totally correct in describing your salvation, and I think you have worded it very well.

You can't possibly know you are saved tomorrow. You can keep that for you if that works for you, but I'll stick with what God has placed in my heart for me. OK?

Typical response when one has nothing to refute it with. Lots of incorrect innuendo and nothing substantive to either support eternal security or refute what I stated.

But even worse it describes the very opposite of your view. Both are unscriptural. What you stated has nothing to do with what I believe. You have actually described salvation by man alone, thinking that if it is not of God alone it must be true.

However, what your view fails to understand is that we are in a mutual, covanental, synergistic relationship with obligations from both sides. It takes both God and man to save ones soul. We are not in an arrangement orchestrated solely by God. If that were actually correct, then God would never have permitted Adam to fall. He was after all in a personal relationship with God, walking and talking with God. He was under a commandment just as we are.

Christ saved us from death and sin just so that God could once again enter into an eternal union which Adam was enjoying prior to his fall.

If you believe in eternal security, you need to explain just why God permitted Adam to fall, to sin, to lose the relationship he had with God for an eternity.

 

[smaller]

Which itself is a good point. I've not thought about that verse that way.

Normally the desire I've seen is to quibble about say, Romans 8:38-39:

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 8:38-39

If my continued life separates me from God's love in Christ, then Paul's simply, flat-out stating a falsehood.

Paul would have to be re-written in order to get where the non-eternal security folk want to go. Shall for example is not shall. Only a faint maybe OR maybe not.''

Nothing being able to separate us from the Love of God in Christ would have to be dramatically redacted.

s

 

[BornAgain]

Well, how many times in your life have you been saved and lost for starters?

Everyone of you who holds temporary salvation must have thought you lost it at some time and then re-instated same.


I'm not in the biz of saving people. God in Christ is.


This is a theology forum. No unbeliever is technically allowed to post.

Perhaps you would like to throw out some fire and brimstone for the imaginary unsaved masses you think are reading your posts, to, you know, scare them into your mindset?



Tell the folks? That is so funny. You seriously think you have an audience?

These Words have been stated multiple times to any reader, I am certain:

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Now, add your caveat that it's only MAYBE.

And don't forget to insert your re-salvation X times formulas so the unsaved masses can read those too.

Let's see. I didn't follow the rules I think are in play, so now I'm not saved or at least might not be, so NOW I have to rehearse some odd and various assortments of incantations and formulas to RE-save myself.

Rinse and repeat ad-infinitum.

s

You were converted from Catholicism, how did you do that? Your will your something from above?

 

[smaller]

You were converted from Catholicism, how did you do that? Your will your something from above?

True I was RCC at the time of my conversion, but prior to that I was born into a traditional Lutheran family and went through both Lutheran and RCC catechism.

But one day the Living Spirit of God in Christ met me along the trail and gave me His Life in my heart, for which I am ever grateful.

No amount of dead religious exercises could do that for me prior.

Once touched within, never the same again.

s

 

[BornAgain]

True I was RCC at the time of my conversion, but prior to that I was born into a traditional Lutheran family and went through both Lutheran and RCC catechism.

But one day the Living Spirit of God in Christ met me along the trail and gave me His Life in my heart, for which I am ever grateful.

No amount of dead religious exercises could do that for me prior.

Once touched within, never the same again.

s

Amen! Eventually when I learned the truth it was hard for me, being raised a catholic.

 

[smaller]

Amen! Eventually when I learned the truth it was hard for me, being raised a catholic.

Well then it appears we both have SOMEONE in common don't we? :yes

 

[Danus]

Typical response when one has nothing to refute it with. Lots of incorrect innuendo and nothing substantive to either support eternal security or refute what I stated.

But even worse it describes the very opposite of your view. Both are unscriptural. What you stated has nothing to do with what I believe. You have actually described salvation by man alone, thinking that if it is not of God alone it must be true.

However, what your view fails to understand is that we are in a mutual, covanental, synergistic relationship with obligations from both sides. It takes both God and man to save ones soul. We are not in an arrangement orchestrated solely by God. If that were actually correct, then God would never have permitted Adam to fall. He was after all in a personal relationship with God, walking and talking with God. He was under a commandment just as we are.

Christ saved us from death and sin just so that God could once again enter into an eternal union which Adam was enjoying prior to his fall.

If you believe in eternal security, you need to explain just why God permitted Adam to fall, to sin, to lose the relationship he had with God for an eternity.

Look man, you did say, that you ...that's you, do not have eternal salvation that YOU can be secured about. You said that. The OP says that also. bass says it's a lie, that it's false. I think it's weak, sad and small, but You said it over and over again about yourself.

Your not alone. Others agree. So you don't need me in your club. I've already agreed with you on what you believe about your salvation. I just tried to point out what the bible says, and just telling you what God has said to me about my salvation, and pointing out that it is not what you believe about yours.

It does not bother me that you do no know and you can't know that you are saved. Heck I don't know if you are either. I'll leave that to you, but when you say "we", and "us", don't include me, OK?

If you want to know about what I know of my salvation, I'll gladly tell you, and you can take it or leave it. I don't care. I'm not God. If you want to stick with what you have working for you, and your solid in that, then it should not matter what I think of what you believe. Right?

As for Adam, I clearly see that God made a way for Adam and Eve just as he has with all of us. I don't blame God for my sin. I fully know it's mine. I just praise Him for my salvation, because I know I had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I love God, follow God, and I know what it means to surrender to God. I know what it is to give up my will, and ask for His, to experience God in my life, to be picked up by God in my surrender and to have faith from God; to be transformed and to have a relationship I can never walk away from and have absolutely no desire to.

I also know what it is to have doubt, but to be pursued by God in a way that I know he will never abandon, forsake, or let me go. Captured by God. I'm all good with it. His grace is enough and his love is irresistible.

I can't speak for you, and I won't, other than to reiterate what you said of yourself, and it's you that said you can't know you are saved or will be. If you want to live like that, OK. But if you want to have real security and to know you are saved, then only God can show you. Only God can give you the strength and faith you will need to know. It's free! But it will cost you....

 

[BornAgain]

Well then it appears we both have SOMEONE in common don't we? :yes

Yes...and when I found out the "truth" it was like santa clause was no longer....

 

[smaller]

Yes...and when I found out the "truth" it was like santa clause was no longer....

The quest for truth can come in diverse, even strange ways.

Will tell you a real account about Santa Claus.

When I was six I believed there was a Santa. My parents, grandparents and most adults I came in contact with did what? They LIED to me outright about Santa Claus. Spin that LIE however we like it's still a LIE.

So, when I was six, just before Christmas, my family went to one of my uncle's homes. The adults had had a couple beers, and I expressed my joys over the forthcoming arrival of who? Satan Claus!

My uncle looked at me, I'll never forget it, and told me the truth to my face, even just a few days before Christmas. He said you don't believe in Santa Claus do you? There is no Santa Claus.

Can you believe an adult would tell a 6 year old that?!

Needless to say I was greatly dismayed and he had belittled my ignorance to my face. Even in telling me the truth.

On the drive home I berated my parents for not being truthful with me. Can you believe a six year old would berate his parents for lying? That's me. I knew from that day forth if I wanted to know the TRUTH I had to find it out for myself as PEOPLE ARE NATURALLY LIARS. My parents sat in silence and were ashamed for lying to me.

God laid some interesting groundwork right there in forcing me to realize that lie didn't he? I don't say it was my uncle. It was the TRUTH that my uncle spoke and the truth is good medicine.

I raised 5 children, the youngest now 30. I lied to none of them about Santa Claus. I also timed my 'disclosure' of the truth of there not being one to mid summer and the age of 5, with the admonition to not share this truth with other children.

Everyone one of my children are believers and they are so by the sharing of His TRUTH, which they likewise share with others.

s

 

[Cassian]

Danus,

Look man, you did say, that you ...that's you, do not have eternal salvation that YOU can be secured about. You said that. The OP says that also. bass says it's a lie, that it's false. I think it's weak, sad and small, but You said it over and over again about yourself.

not being secure, does not mean I don't believe I have salvation. I cannot guarantee my own salvation because I am still a sinner, I still have my sinful nature, satan is still seeking to decieve. There is nothing in the world that could possibly guarantee, including myself, about my future. Eternal salvation is a present day event and must continue to the next.

Eternal security as described and defined by your viewpoint is a scriptural myth. It does not exist and never has existed in scripture. It exists only in a personal interpretation of scripture.

Your not alone. Others agree. So you don't need me in your club. I've already agreed with you on what you believe about your salvation. I just tried to point out what the bible says, and just telling you what God has said to me about my salvation, and pointing out that it is not what you believe about yours.

All you are pointing out is that your personal interpretation or even acceptance of another persons interpretation is what scripture means. To say what the Bible says is quite meaningless when hundreds of others say the very same thing and everyone is different.

The historical fact is that such an interpretation cannot be found either postively, or negatively in the first 1500 years of the existance of the revelation given to the Apostles. Since the reformation within the protestant milieu there have been many new theories, new doctrines, all developed by individuals. Hardly the Gospel once given to the saints in the beginning.

It does not bother me that you do no know and you can't know that you are saved. Heck I don't know if you are either. I'll leave that to you, but when you say "we", and "us", don't include me, OK?

Whether you claim to be or not is not the issue either. The discussion is what scripture means. Scripture has never had such a doctrine as "eternal security" as defined and developed within reformed section of all protestant groups or doctrines. If God is telling something different for you than most, then I would question two things. Either God, through the Holy Spirit is confused or you are incorrect. On the other hand if you are correct, then why was not this taught to the early Church, and why does not everyone else that even interprets it personally under the practice of sola scripture come to the same conclusion?

As for Adam, I clearly see that God made a way for Adam and Eve just as he has with all of us. I don't blame God for my sin. I fully know it's mine. I just praise Him for my salvation, because I know I had absolutely nothing to do with it.

As in our other discussion, this is a huge difference also from scripture. Christ did not save you personally. He saved the world, which includes all of mankind from death, from the fall, the condemnation through Adam.
Christ did this for the express purpose that He could call out every single human being to be united with Him. IF it was up to God everyone would be individually saved as well. If it was up to God then He would not need to call all men to repentance. But God created man free, just as Adam made a free choice, to choose whether they would be in a relationship with God. That relationship is not guaranteed in any shape or form as we can see from the story of Adam. That relationship is entirely within your hands. YOu were given all the gifts, the tools, the ability, the capability to respond to God. In fact, man must actually make a negative decision even to reject God.

If you want to know about what I know of my salvation, I'll gladly tell you, and you can take it or leave it. I don't care. I'm not God. If you want to stick with what you have working for you, and your solid in that, then it should not matter what I think of what you believe. Right?

This is not even about your salvation. I'm not Christ, I am not going to be your judge. And you are correct, I don't care what you think about my salvation because that is also not on the table.

What is being discussed is the meaning of God's revelation to man of which scripture is but a part. You have the view that individual man has the right, but even more, the ability to discern Gospel Truth on his own from a mere text. The Apostles did not even have that ability. There were never given a text. They were given All Truth, and then they dispensed that Truth through the Church to the world, calling indiviuduals to Christ. Nothing in scripture ever says that scripture ONLY is the source of faith and practice. Scripture emphatically states that individual an will never recieve private revelation for his own interpretation.

I love God, follow God, and I know what it means to surrender to God. I know what it is to give up my will, and ask for His, to experience God in my life, to be picked up by God in my surrender and to have faith from God; to be transformed and to have a relationship I can never walk away from and have absolutely no desire to.

That is great, that is a great testimony. But it does not add anything to the discussion about the meaning of scripture.

I also know what it is to have doubt, but to be pursued by God in a way that I know he will never abandon, forsake, or let me go. Captured by God. I'm all good with it. His grace is enough and his love is irresistible.

Aside from your personal view, scripture speaks opposite of everything you say here. First, God is calling all men to repentance. He is going to make sure that no man will have an excuse that he did not have the opportunity to know God. Scripture never says God abandons man. But scripture ad nausem explains that man can walk away from God. Again, see the story of Adam. God did not force him to remain faithful. God did not want forced love, but love freely returned and kept.
His love is far from irresistable because most men in the end will reject that love.

I can't speak for you, and I won't, other than to reiterate what you said of yourself, and it's you that said you can't know you are saved or will be. If you want to live like that, OK. But if you want to have real security and to know you are saved, then only God can show you. Only God can give you the strength and faith you will need to know. It's free! But it will cost you....

Which is why the view is a panacea for modern man. It is so comfortable and such a warm fuzzy felling, psychologically uplifting that all one needs to do is believe and in an instant one is finitely saved for an eternity. Yet scripture never teaches such a thing which is why I cannot say that I will in the future still be saved. I have assurance that I am saved today, but I cannot predict the future. Maybe you can and you are not like all other human beings who are still sinners, still possess a sinful nature, and satan above all others is trying to decieve you. Maybe he has already succeeded. He is using the very opposite lie that He gave to Adam. He told Adam that he could become like God on his own. He did not need God.

Eternal security is saying that God will save you and you cannot ever lose salvation as long as you say you believe in any given moment. Scripture says that neither man alone, nor God alone can save our souls. It takes a relationship between man and God to save our souls.

Did you know that by saying a prayer a few seconds long will guarantee you eternal salvation right on the web. It is just amazing. Why have God's revelation when all we needed is one sentence. Just believe in me for a few seconds, say it with your heart, and you are eternally saved. I would think that every single human being would jump at it. But alas, many enter, but find the journey just to tough and the road keeps getting narrower and the gate is very narrow.

ONLy God can give me the strength and power to endure as long as I request that power by being faithful. If I become unfaithful, and choose to remain unfaithful, I cannot be saved no matter how much I once believed.

It's free! But it will cost you....

again, confused here. Your salvation from death is free, it is given to every single human being. But your relationship (the salvation of your individual soul) is NOT free, it is your choice, and it has obligations to meet, which will cost you. It could cost you your life.

 

[ezra]

i have deep respect for bro adrain rogers

i listen to every time he is on the radio. though i do not agree with his way of teaching on eternal security .. but our salvation is eternal. no eternal life security is not a license reason to sin. i go to bed at night saved and i wake up still saved. i have a know so salvation.

1 John 1:2
The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

1 John 2:25
And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

1 John 5:12-14
New International Version (NIV)
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Concluding Affirmations

13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.


jude Doxology

24 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

 

[Deborah13]

Danus,


not being secure, does not mean I don't believe I have salvation. I cannot guarantee my own salvation because I am still a sinner, I still have my sinful nature, satan is still seeking to decieve. There is nothing in the world that could possibly guarantee, including myself, about my future. Eternal salvation is a present day event and must continue to the next.

Eternal security as described and defined by your viewpoint is a scriptural myth. It does not exist and never has existed in scripture. It exists only in a personal interpretation of scripture.

All you are pointing out is that your personal interpretation or even acceptance of another persons interpretation is what scripture means. To say what the Bible says is quite meaningless when hundreds of others say the very same thing and everyone is different.

The historical fact is that such an interpretation cannot be found either postively, or negatively in the first 1500 years of the existance of the revelation given to the Apostles. Since the reformation within the protestant milieu there have been many new theories, new doctrines, all developed by individuals. Hardly the Gospel once given to the saints in the beginning.

Whether you claim to be or not is not the issue either. The discussion is what scripture means. Scripture has never had such a doctrine as "eternal security" as defined and developed within reformed section of all protestant groups or doctrines. If God is telling something different for you than most, then I would question two things. Either God, through the Holy Spirit is confused or you are incorrect. On the other hand if you are correct, then why was not this taught to the early Church, and why does not everyone else that even interprets it personally under the practice of sola scripture come to the same conclusion?



As in our other discussion, this is a huge difference also from scripture. Christ did not save you personally. He saved the world, which includes all of mankind from death, from the fall, the condemnation through Adam.
Christ did this for the express purpose that He could call out every single human being to be united with Him. IF it was up to God everyone would be individually saved as well. If it was up to God then He would not need to call all men to repentance. But God created man free, just as Adam made a free choice, to choose whether they would be in a relationship with God. That relationship is not guaranteed in any shape or form as we can see from the story of Adam. That relationship is entirely within your hands. YOu were given all the gifts, the tools, the ability, the capability to respond to God. In fact, man must actually make a negative decision even to reject God.

This is not even about your salvation. I'm not Christ, I am not going to be your judge. And you are correct, I don't care what you think about my salvation because that is also not on the table.

What is being discussed is the meaning of God's revelation to man of which scripture is but a part. You have the view that individual man has the right, but even more, the ability to discern Gospel Truth on his own from a mere text. The Apostles did not even have that ability. There were never given a text. They were given All Truth, and then they dispensed that Truth through the Church to the world, calling indiviuduals to Christ. Nothing in scripture ever says that scripture ONLY is the source of faith and practice. Scripture emphatically states that individual an will never recieve private revelation for his own interpretation.



That is great, that is a great testimony. But it does not add anything to the discussion about the meaning of scripture.



Aside from your personal view, scripture speaks opposite of everything you say here. First, God is calling all men to repentance. He is going to make sure that no man will have an excuse that he did not have the opportunity to know God. Scripture never says God abandons man. But scripture ad nausem explains that man can walk away from God. Again, see the story of Adam. God did not force him to remain faithful. God did not want forced love, but love freely returned and kept.
His love is far from irresistable because most men in the end will reject that love.



Which is why the view is a panacea for modern man. It is so comfortable and such a warm fuzzy felling, psychologically uplifting that all one needs to do is believe and in an instant one is finitely saved for an eternity. Yet scripture never teaches such a thing which is why I cannot say that I will in the future still be saved. I have assurance that I am saved today, but I cannot predict the future. Maybe you can and you are not like all other human beings who are still sinners, still possess a sinful nature, and satan above all others is trying to decieve you. Maybe he has already succeeded. He is using the very opposite lie that He gave to Adam. He told Adam that he could become like God on his own. He did not need God.

Eternal security is saying that God will save you and you cannot ever lose salvation as long as you say you believe in any given moment. Scripture says that neither man alone, nor God alone can save our souls. It takes a relationship between man and God to save our souls.

Did you know that by saying a prayer a few seconds long will guarantee you eternal salvation right on the web. It is just amazing. Why have God's revelation when all we needed is one sentence. Just believe in me for a few seconds, say it with your heart, and you are eternally saved. I would think that every single human being would jump at it. But alas, many enter, but find the journey just to tough and the road keeps getting narrower and the gate is very narrow.

ONLy God can give me the strength and power to endure as long as I request that power by being faithful. If I become unfaithful, and choose to remain unfaithful, I cannot be saved no matter how much I once believed.



again, confused here. Your salvation from death is free, it is given to every single human being. But your relationship (the salvation of your individual soul) is NOT free, it is your choice, and it has obligations to meet, which will cost you. It could cost you your life.

Question?
When you say that "If I become unfaithful, and choose to remain unfaithful, I cannot be saved no matter how much I once believed." are you saying you become reprobate.