The Great Tribulation

[Edward]

Additionally, you seem to be contradicting yourself. You first say that "Hades is a prison.Its where you go after you die which is the punishment for sin." But then you say that "The grave will not be able to hold his church(assembly)when he calls it out." So, if Hades is where one goes as a punishment for sin, then how is it that believers will be there?

My understanding is that Hades aka Hell is the temporary holding place to house those who die in their sins and are being held for the great white throne Judgement. It used to be known as Abrahams Bosom, where one side of the chasm is Abrahams boson, where believers waited and across the chasm is Hades for the condemned.

Once Jesus came and died on the cross, He went to Abrahams Bosom and set the captives (Believers) free. Now when someone dies they go to be with Jesus and not to Abrahams Bosom.

Rumor has said that the worlds increased Volcanic activity is due to it being in the last dys and Hades has expanded so much over time to receive new inmates that it's enough to become apparent on the surface in volcanic activity and earthquakes.

Those aint earthquakes. Just the Hades Construction crew working.

Hades or Hell is not the condemned's final destination. That would be the Lake of Fire.

 

[dwb001]

My understanding is that Hades aka Hell is the temporary holding place to house those who die in their sins and are being held for the great white throne Judgement. It used to be known as Abrahams Bosom, where one side of the chasm is Abrahams boson, where believers waited and across the chasm is Hades for the condemned.

Once Jesus came and died on the cross, He went to Abrahams Bosom and set the captives (Believers) free. Now when someone dies they go to be with Jesus and not to Abrahams Bosom.

Where is the setting the comforted free in the Bible?
Just asking.
Because the people in Abraham's bosom, or Paradise, are not captives.
If Jesus said that the thief on the cross would be in Paradise... but then Jesus would take him out of Paradise... that doesn't track.
When did Jesus say that after death we don't go to Paradise if we trust in Him?

 

[for_his_glory]

It looks like you are getting "this rock" mixed up.
Where in Mat 16:18 does Jesus say "I am the Rock"?
If bible translators thought that Jesus was the Rock being referred to would they not capitalise Rock?
So in your own example you use a translation that messes with your personal translation.
Your "IMO" looks to be faulty.

In Matthew 16:18 the rock is used as a metaphor as in Jesus who is the rock/foundation of our salvation. Here are just a few of many verses that speak about Jesus being the rock. 1Samuel 2:2; Psalms 62:2; 1Corinthians 10:4; 1Peter 2:6

Even though this would be a good topic we are going off topic

 

[dwb001]

In Matthew 16:18 the rock is used as a metaphor as in Jesus who is the rock/foundation of our salvation. Here are just a few of many verses that speak about Jesus being the rock. 1Samuel 2:2; Psalms 62:2; 1Corinthians 10:4; 1Peter 2:6

Even though this would be a good topic we are going off topic

But Mat 16:18 is NOT referring to Jesus as the Rock... but Peter as the rock.
Check the sentence structure and context.

 

[for_his_glory]

If someone would like to start a new thread about Hades and the rock please do as we are getting way of topic, which is about the great tribulation.

Thank you.

 

[for_his_glory]

But Mat 16:18 is NOT referring to Jesus as the Rock... but Peter as the rock.
Check the sentence structure and context.

Please start a new thread on this.

 

[dwb001]

Please start a new thread on this.

After you.

 

[Edward]

Where is the setting the comforted free in the Bible?
Just asking.
Because the people in Abraham's bosom, or Paradise, are not captives.
If Jesus said that the thief on the cross would be in Paradise... but then Jesus would take him out of Paradise... that doesn't track.
When did Jesus say that after death we don't go to Paradise if we trust in Him?

I think it's in Jude chapter 2. I don't have it exactly right now.
I dunno if I can spell it out from A to Z in scripture but some of I can. I've seen a lot of teachings on this and have studied around it and pieced t together, like in all scripture.

Before Jesus came to earth and died on the cross to pay the price to set man free, when Believing people died they could not yet enter Heaven because their sins had not been paid for, right? You with me?

So Jesus came and when He died on the cross, he went to Hell (and depending on whose idea you listen to), he preached to the captives in hell or Abrahams Boson, or some say that Jesus was torurtured more in those 3 days in hell to pay the full price for sins and such, and others say He went there and declared victory and took the keys to Hell. Something like that. We do know for sure that Jesus was in the tomb dead for 3 days. He rose on the third day. He was somewhere during that time, right?

Jesus knew that as soon as He died that He would be going to Abrahams Bosom. Well while Jesus was on the road to Abrahams Bosom (so to speak) He met a thief who repented to Him so Jesus decided to save the guy. Hey, let's walk together. If the thief goes down under old covenant he has to go to the same place that Jesus was going to go to! Or if he the thief went down new covenant then then the promise is to be with Jesus forevermore. So it really wouldn't matter either way.

Today you will be with me in paradise...but now since the price has been paid He had to accompany Jesus down to Paradise. He couldn't leave him in limbo. Wait here for a few. No He went with Jesus to paradise and prolly watched while Jesus conducted His business and then the set free the others who couldn't enter heaven before because the price hadn't been paid yet...but now that the price is paid, he freed them all (not the condemned). and took all of them to heaven as saints. They paved over Abrahams bosom for more parking space. Lol. Because now we are New Covenant and that means...Absent from the body, present with the Lord...

 

[for_his_glory]

Edward just wanted to know if you are changing your OP to that of Hades and the rock as it will be confusing for those who are new to this thread coming in the middle of it in what the discussion should be as three different topics become very confusing. That is why I asked others to make new topics on both these very important topics.

 

[Edward]

Edward just wanted to know if you are changing your OP to that of Hades and the rock as it will be confusing for those who are new to this thread coming in the middle of it in what the discussion should be as three different topics become very confusing. That is why I asked others to make new topics on both these very important topics.

That's what I tried to do with this thread, lol. You guys pretty much took over that Rapture thread and I wanted another one and to discuss some different aspects of the grest tribulation and so forth so I was gonna leave you guys to discuss the rapture over there and come here and tweak the subject matter a wee bit but it's all still related anyway.

This thread didn't really turn out like I wanted it to. It happened again, lol. SO I dunno know if I'm too keen on another thread yet. It's getting harder and harder to discuss on forums anymore because the demonic oppression has been turned up quite a bit lately because we are in the end times so there's more confusion, distraction, disagreements, bad attitudes. It isn't the people, it is the evil spirits. I know that some people dont really believe in evil spirits, but as far as I know, it is a spiritual war and it is real so those things must be true.

 

[dwb001]

I think it's in Jude chapter 2. I don't have it exactly right now.
I dunno if I can spell it out from A to Z in scripture but some of I can. I've seen a lot of teachings on this and have studied around it and pieced t together, like in all scripture.

Before Jesus came to earth and died on the cross to pay the price to set man free, when Believing people died they could not yet enter Heaven because their sins had not been paid for, right? You with me?

So Jesus came and when He died on the cross, he went to Hell (and depending on whose idea you listen to), he preached to the captives in hell or Abrahams Boson, or some say that Jesus was torurtured more in those 3 days in hell to pay the full price for sins and such, and others say He went there and declared victory and took the keys to Hell. Something like that. We do know for sure that Jesus was in the tomb dead for 3 days. He rose on the third day. He was somewhere during that time, right?

Jesus knew that as soon as He died that He would be going to Abrahams Bosom. Well while Jesus was on the road to Abrahams Bosom (so to speak) He met a thief who repented to Him so Jesus decided to save the guy. Hey, let's walk together. If the thief goes down under old covenant he has to go to the same place that Jesus was going to go to! Or if he the thief went down new covenant then then the promise is to be with Jesus forevermore. So it really wouldn't matter either way.

Today you will be with me in paradise...but now since the price has been paid He had to accompany Jesus down to Paradise. He couldn't leave him in limbo. Wait here for a few. No He went with Jesus to paradise and prolly watched while Jesus conducted His business and then the set free the others who couldn't enter heaven before because the price hadn't been paid yet...but now that the price is paid, he freed them all (not the condemned). and took all of them to heaven as saints. They paved over Abrahams bosom for more parking space. Lol. Because now we are New Covenant and that means...Absent from the body, present with the Lord...

So what you are saying is... it is not in the Bible.
Then why not just go with what Jesus taught?
Rich man and Lazarus.

 

[for_his_glory]

That's what I tried to do with this thread, lol. You guys pretty much took over that Rapture thread and I wanted another one and to discuss some different aspects of the grest tribulation and so forth so I was gonna leave you guys to discuss the rapture over there and come here and tweak the subject matter a wee bit but it's all still related anyway.

This thread didn't really turn out like I wanted it to. It happened again, lol. SO I dunno know if I'm too keen on another thread yet. It's getting harder and harder to discuss on forums anymore because the demonic oppression has been turned up quite a bit lately because we are in the end times so there's more confusion, distraction, disagreements, bad attitudes. It isn't the people, it is the evil spirits. I know that some people dont really believe in evil spirits, but as far as I know, it is a spiritual war and it is real so those things must be true.

I tried to being it back to the topic of the OP and unless I delete everything, including my off replies, would that help you to bring this back to topic or do you just want me to let it alone.

 

[Edward]

So what you are saying is... it is not in the Bible.
Then why not just go with what Jesus taught?
Rich man and Lazarus.

I was kidding around a little bit. There is no Jude chapter 2. But sure, the rich man & Lazarus is a good parable. There is scriptures on this stuuf. Some of it just common sense, like the thief who was about to die would have gone to the same place as Jesus was going to anyway and He is God so I think the thief got lucky to meet Jesus.

 

[Edward]

I tried to being it back to the topic of the OP and unless I delete everything, including my off replies, would that help you to bring this back to topic or do you just want me to let it alone.

Oh just leave it alone. I don't want anything deleted and let them talk and stuff. No big deal. It is what it is. Start that other thread if you want and I'll chime in.

 

[Free]

My understanding is that Hades aka Hell

First issue. Hades is not Hell. Hell (gehenna) is the final destination of unbelievers. Hades is the grave. That is one reason I don't like the KJV--it unnecessarily complicates the matter by translating three different Greek words as "hell."

is the temporary holding place to house those who die in their sins and are being held for the great white throne Judgement. It used to be known as Abrahams Bosom, where one side of the chasm is Abrahams boson, where believers waited and across the chasm is Hades for the condemned.

Once Jesus came and died on the cross, He went to Abrahams Bosom and set the captives (Believers) free. Now when someone dies they go to be with Jesus and not to Abrahams Bosom.

I'm not so sure that assertion can be supported with Scripture. Prior to Hades getting thrown into the lake of fire, all the dead in it are given up. They are then judged and if their name isn't found in the book of life, they go into the lake of fire. That implies that there are those in Hades whose names are in the book of life. Otherwise, why wouldn't it just state that they were all judged and thrown into the lake of fire?

Rumor has said that the worlds increased Volcanic activity is due to it being in the last dys and Hades has expanded so much over time to receive new inmates that it's enough to become apparent on the surface in volcanic activity and earthquakes.


Those aint earthquakes. Just the Hades Construction crew working.

Well, those are certainly just rumours.

Hades or Hell is not the condemned's final destination. That would be the Lake of Fire.

Hell, which is gehenna, is the final destination--the lake of fire.

 

[Edward]

That implies that there are those in Hades whose names are in the book of life. Otherwise, why wouldn't it just state that they were all judged and thrown into the lake of fire?

That's a fair question. Hmm. I believe that our God is a longsuffering and merciful God. There are scriptures talking about how His mercy knows no bounds or something like that. The most significant thing that I realized after starting to walk with God, was that He is not a vicious or vengeful God, but a wonderfully loving God and a very nice guy.

I don't know how. I have no scripture for it. But I know at least wee bit about who He is and I would bet money that...there is a way for those souls to leave Hades and go to Heaven if they want to. But I think they would have to go inside of theirself to their Holy of Holies in their heart and repent and ask forgiveness and that must be almost impossible to do if you are there. But I think the people there now, before the judgement may have this chance to still repent. Maybe one or two? I bet it don't happen as easy there as it does here but even if it did happen, how would we know?

 

[dwb001]

I was kidding around a little bit. There is no Jude chapter 2. But sure, the rich man & Lazarus is a good parable. There is scriptures on this stuuf. Some of it just common sense, like the thief who was about to die would have gone to the same place as Jesus was going to anyway and He is God so I think the thief got lucky to meet Jesus.

I don't see Rich man and Lazarus as a parable.
The text does not say it is a parable.

 

[Edward]

I don't see Rich man and Lazarus as a parable.
The text does not say it is a parable.

Parable or not it teaches a very important spiritual truth. Tha names may or may not be real but the events are all real. Or so it seems to me.

 

[Edward]

First issue. Hades is not Hell. Hell (gehenna) is the final destination of unbelievers. Hades is the grave. That is one reason I don't like the KJV--it unnecessarily complicates the matter by translating three different Greek words as "hell."

Is that right? I can't hardly keep all the terms straight sometimes but I got the meaning. There is a place that is a temporary holding place for the condemned who die in their sins. So Hades is the grave for the body...I'll buy that. After the great white throne judgement all of the condemned get thrown into the lake of fire.

Our final destination is New Jerusalem on the new earth.

 

[Iconoclast]

The Great tribulation happened in 70 ad...now we preach the gospel of the Kingdom worldwide.