The Heresy of Sinless Perfection as Held by Some Here

[electedbyHim]

Hopeful 2 said:
The Advocate has done all that He can for me, thank God: now it is up to me to endure faithfully until Jesus returns to judge the world.

This statement alone is incorrect.

Where does it say that Holy Spirit has done all He can for you? So that's it, now its up to you?

Good luck with that.

You cannot endure on your own accord, if this were true you would fail.

Does your salvation depend on you?

I will assume that you believe you can lose your salvation.

Gods written word does not teach this.

Romans 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Hopeful 2 said:
I get the Spirit of God to make it known to me which verses apply to those in sin and which verses apply to those in God.

How do you know it is the Spirit of God?

 

[Hopeful 2]

No you don't, you're just like everybody else who filters out the parts which they deem "offensive".

I don't find any of God's word "offensive".
I do, however, recoil at the interpretations that accommodate sin.

Then stop preaching your heresy, repent and confess your sins.

Repentance creates perfect sinlessness !

Then why are you following Nieztsche?

I have never read anything by him.

If there were no sin, then Jesus died for nothing.

If there were no sin, Jesus wouldn't have had to die for our past sins.

You are so ignorant because you don't read the OT, you don't know anything about sin and the gravity thereof. Paul laid it out in Rom. 7:7 - "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

What else did Paul write ?
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Rom 6:1-2)
Aren't you dead to sin yet ?

No, you're misreading it. Is Jesus good or not I don't know,

What a surprising answer !
Let me assure you, He is good...very good !

all I read is that you exalt yourself as good as Jesus.

As it is written..."It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?" (Matt 10:25)
And..."He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:6)
Do you say you abide in Him ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

This statement alone is incorrect.

Where does it say that Holy Spirit has done all He can for you? So that's it, now its up to you?

He got the message of eternal life to me, and forgave my sins at my water baptism into Christ and into His death and burial.
After my conversion, my original Advocate became my Brother and Lord.
He is my Shepherd.
But His original advocacy is done.

Good luck with that.

I don't need luck.

You cannot endure on your own accord, if this were true you would fail.

You are right.
What does that say about all those who "fail"?
It says they don't have God.

Does your salvation depend on you?

Yes, as my judgement will be about what I have or haven't done.
Thankfully, God is with me on my journey.

I will assume that you believe you can lose your salvation.

If it is "lost" it never existed in the first place.

Gods written word does not teach this.

I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Romans 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It agrees with my position that sinners are not in His hands.
Only the faithful are in Him, and in His hands.

How do you know it is the Spirit of God?

I know because He has never once led me into evil.

 

[electedbyHim]

He got the message of eternal life to me, and forgave my sins at my water baptism into Christ and into His death and burial.
After my conversion, my original Advocate became my Brother and Lord.
He is my Shepherd.
But His original advocacy is done.

I don't need luck.

You are right.
What does that say about all those who "fail"?
It says they don't have God.

Yes, as my judgement will be about what I have or haven't done.
Thankfully, God is with me on my journey.

If it is "lost" it never existed in the first place.

I'm not sure what you are referring to.

It agrees with my position that sinners are not in His hands.
Only the faithful are in Him, and in His hands.

I know because He has never once led me into evil.

You defiantly are one of a kind.

Are there more sinless humans like you?

Master race and all?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I don't find any of God's word "offensive".
I do, however, recoil at the interpretations that accommodate sin.

There's only your interpretations that ignore sin and thus nullify Jesus's atonement on the cross.

Repentance creates perfect sinlessness !

Then you've repented nothing. You're still full of pride, equating yourself with Jesus.

I have never read anything by him.

You're selling "perfect sinlessness", that's his big idea that sin doesn't exist. In the bible there's only one gospel - Jesus died for our SINS, 1 Cor. 15:3.

If there were no sin, Jesus wouldn't have had to die for our past sins.

Then why did he die? Why did he have to? Why is this world so evil with so much sin?

What else did Paul write ?
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Rom 6:1-2)
Aren't you dead to sin yet ?

"Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now." (Gal. 4:28-29)
The flesh is still in conflict with the Spirit, it never ends until we die. The Scripture doesn't contradict itself.

What a surprising answer !
Let me assure you, He is good...very good !

Then why didn't he say so to the rich young ruler?

As it is written..."It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?" (Matt 10:25)
And..."He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:6)
Do you say you abide in Him ?

"Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him." (Jn. 13:16)
Jesus was humble. He never claimed himself to be sinless - even though he was sinless indeed; Jesus didn't affirm the rich young ruler that he was a "good teacher" even though he was good indeed. So why do you audaciously call yourself sinless? Do you perceive yourself greater than the master?

 

[Hopeful 2]

You defiantly are one of a kind.

God is the One of a kind.

Are there more sinless humans like you?

Yes, Jesus will find faith on earth, if He returns today.

Master race and all?

There is only one race, descended from Noah.

 

[Hopeful 2]

There's only your interpretations that ignore sin and thus nullify Jesus's atonement on the cross.

Ignore sin ?
How many posts have I written that say we can be free of sinning ?

Then you've repented nothing. You're still full of pride, equating yourself with Jesus.

If I repented of sin, I won't sin anymore.
More sin would show that my repentance from sin was a lie to God.

You're selling "perfect sinlessness", that's his big idea that sin doesn't exist.

I am selling nothing.
It is a free gift from God.

In the bible there's only one gospel - Jesus died for our SINS, 1 Cor. 15:3.

Thanks be to God !
But He did so much more too !

Then why did he die? Why did he have to? Why is this world so evil with so much sin?

He died to take away the sin of the world.
Only a perfect sacrifice would suffice
There is so much evil in the world because men love their sin more than they love God.

"Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now." (Gal. 4:28-29)
The flesh is still in conflict with the Spirit, it never ends until we die. The Scripture doesn't contradict itself.

A few more verses down will tell you another story..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Kill that flesh, and the battle will be over.
Instead of being born of the flesh, be reborn of the Spirit !

Then why didn't he say so to the rich young ruler?

Jesus was alluding to the fact that He was one with the Father.

"Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him." (Jn. 13:16)
Jesus was humble. He never claimed himself to be sinless - even though he was sinless indeed; Jesus didn't affirm the rich young ruler that he was a "good teacher" even though he was good indeed. So why do you audaciously call yourself sinless? Do you perceive yourself greater than the master?

What I am now is the fruit of Jesus' sacrifice on my behalf.
Cleansed of sin, and reborn of the Spirit.
A new creature.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Ignore sin ?
How many posts have I written that say we can be free of sinning ?

That's exactly how you ignore sin, downplaying the gravity of sin, pretending this world is a utopia and you're immune to it. You're deceiving yourself.

If I repented of sin, I won't sin anymore.
More sin would show that my repentance from sin was a lie to God.

You didn't, all you did is boasting and lecturing on me with your heresy of sinless perfection.

I am selling nothing.
It is a free gift from God.

Which you did not receive because you think you have no sin and no need for salvation.

Thanks be to God !
But He did so much more too !

You're just like that Pharisee, boasting before God of how great he is. You have no Christ in you.

He died to take away the sin of the world.
Only a perfect sacrifice would suffice
There is so much evil in the world because men love their sin more than they love God.

Then that's you, loving your sin of pride instead of crucifying it on the cross. Jesus being a perfect sacrifice is one thing, whether you and I present ourselves as living sacrifice acceptable to God is another.

A few more verses down will tell you another story..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Kill that flesh, and the battle will be over.
Instead of being born of the flesh, be reborn of the Spirit !

The battle is never over until we're gone, 'cause we're still living in fleshly bodies. Being born again in the Spirit is the beginning, not the end.

Jesus was alluding to the fact that He was one with the Father.

He didn't boast that he was born of the Spirit, neither did he tell the rich young ruler to be born of the Spirit.

What I am now is the fruit of Jesus' sacrifice on my behalf.
Cleansed of sin, and reborn of the Spirit.
A new creature.

As long as you preach the heresy of sinless perfection, you're still the old creature, there's no spiritual fruit in you. Paul lamented and confessed his sins of persecuting the early church, all he once held dear, he counted as loss. I saw none of that in you. All I see is the typical Laodicean conplacency - "I'm rich, I've made myself wealthy, and I need nothing."

 

[Hopeful 2]

That's exactly how you ignore sin, downplaying the gravity of sin, pretending this world is a utopia and you're immune to it. You're deceiving yourself.

Would a man freed from prison after 50 some years be deceived that he is now free ?
God has provided all we need to quit being sinners.
I can't understand how you feel He is not capable of following through on His promises from the OT.
The Messiah came to free man from their worst enemy.
That enemy was death.
The tool of the devil to bring about death was sin.
Jesus has vanquished both.

You didn't, all you did is boasting and lecturing on me with your heresy of sinless perfection.

The fruit of Jesus' victory is not a heresy.

Which you did not receive because you think you have no sin and no need for salvation.

I already received my freedom from sin, and I await the day of judgement to hear my name read from the book of life.

You're just like that Pharisee, boasting before God of how great he is. You have no Christ in you.

The Pharisees taught the truth, but didn't manifest it in their own lives.
It didn't change the fact that the truth was true.
Would you recognize Christ if He was standing in front of you ?

Then that's you, loving your sin of pride instead of crucifying it on the cross.

I can't find any sense in that sentence.

Jesus being a perfect sacrifice is one thing, whether you and I present ourselves as living sacrifice acceptable to God is another.

Why do you doubt that you can present yourself as a living sacrifice and acceptable to God ?
Jesus did, and so can we.
Saying it is impossible only hamstrings yourself.

The battle is never over until we're gone, 'cause we're still living in fleshly bodies. Being born again in the Spirit is the beginning, not the end.

Has your hand or eye ever committed a sin ?
Why pretend they have some power over what your mind wants and does ?
Why not crucify that "flesh" with the affections and lusts ? (Gal 5:24)
Why not obey Paul's words in Gal 5:16..."This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
He knew it was possible !

He didn't boast that he was born of the Spirit, neither did he tell the rich young ruler to be born of the Spirit.

Boast ?
Facts are facts.
The reason Jesus didn't tell anyone to be born of the Spirit was because it wouldn't be possible until after His death and resurrection,

As long as you preach the heresy of sinless perfection, you're still the old creature, there's no spiritual fruit in you. Paul lamented and confessed his sins of persecuting the early church, all he once held dear, he counted as loss. I saw none of that in you. All I see is the typical Laodicean conplacency - "I'm rich, I've made myself wealthy, and I need nothing."

If man can't be righteous, (sinlessly perfect), everyone will go to the lake of fire.
But I know men can repent of sin and crucify the "flesh" with the affections and lusts, and henceforth walk in and after the Spirit.
Was Paul a heretic too ?
He preached...“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Rom. 6:6-7)
FREED FROM SIN !
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:1)
AFTER THE SPIRIT !
"Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
SIN NOT !
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Cor 5:21)
WE ARE MADE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM !
"Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you." (2 Cor 13:11)
BE PERFECT !
"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Eph 2:1-3)
TIME PAST, WERE !
"Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." (Phil 3:15)
AS MANY AS BE PERFECT... !
"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)
EVERY MAN PERFECT !
"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
EVERYONE...DEPART FROM INIQUITY !
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Tim 3:16-17)
THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PREFECT !

All by "Paul the heretic" ?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Would a man freed from prison after 50 some years be deceived that he is now free ?

Yes, if you believe you're sinless like Jesus with no need of salvation from Jesus anymore.

The fruit of Jesus' victory is not a heresy.

The fruit of Jesus's victory is one thing, the fruit of your own spiritual gift is another. There's only fruits of the Holy Spirit - "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Gal. 5:22) These are not fallen from the sky in an instant. There's no guarantee that everyone will bear such fruits in equal amount, that's contradicting the teaching of the parable of the soils, I've pointed that out many times.

I already received my freedom from sin, and I await the day of judgement to hear my name read from the book of life.

"The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.” “The wages of sin is death.” As long as you and I are subject to mortality, the severe consequences of sin remain.

The Pharisees taught the truth, but didn't manifest it in their own lives.
It didn't change the fact that the truth was true.
Would you recognize Christ if He was standing in front of you ?

It did, because more is caught than taught. Demonstrating truth with falsehood distorts the truth.

Why do you doubt that you can present yourself as a living sacrifice and acceptable to God ?
Jesus did, and so can we.
Saying it is impossible only hamstrings yourself.

You can, but you won't, as long as you regard yourself as sinless and thus equate yourself with Jesus.

Has your hand or eye ever committed a sin ?
Why pretend they have some power over what your mind wants and does ?
Why not crucify that "flesh" with the affections and lusts ? (Gal 5:24)
Why not obey Paul's words in Gal 5:16..."This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
He knew it was possible !

Not possible for you with this kind of prideful attitude. If you want to walk in the Spirit, then you must yield to the Spirit, be equally yoked with the Holy Spirit.

Boast ?
Facts are facts.
The reason Jesus didn't tell anyone to be born of the Spirit was because it wouldn't be possible until after His death and resurrection,

Then why did he tell that to Nicodemus?

If man can't be righteous, (sinlessly perfect), everyone will go to the lake of fire.
But I know men can repent of sin and crucify the "flesh" with the affections and lusts, and henceforth walk in and after the Spirit.

No you don't. You're promoting work based religion, as though you can do it all by your own effort to please God. Saying you repent of your sins means nothing, true repentance must be substantiated with spiritual fruits. "Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones." (Matt. 3:7-9) This warning applies to the church who are adopted as Abraham's descedants through Christ - "And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal. 3:29) In Rev. 6, the white robe of righteousness is given to the saints after they were dead, not before. If you think you're already righteous and you've had a ticket to heaven, you're deceiving yourself.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, if you believe you're sinless like Jesus with no need of salvation from Jesus anymore.

Jesus already saved me...from sin.
Peter said..."Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." (Acts 3:26)
Don't you want that blessing ?

The fruit of Jesus's victory is one thing, the fruit of your own spiritual gift is another.

Thank God the Spirit within me, is of Him !

There's only fruits of the Holy Spirit - "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Gal. 5:22) These are not fallen from the sky in an instant. There's no guarantee that everyone will bear such fruits in equal amount, that's contradicting the teaching of the parable of the soils, I've pointed that out many times.

The gift of the Holy Ghost is only given to the repentant. (Acts 2:38)
If you don't quit sinning, you get nothing from God.
And who ever said we will bear fruit in equal amounts ?

"The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.” “The wages of sin is death.” As long as you and I are subject to mortality, the severe consequences of sin remain.

I have already suffered the wages of my sin, with my death.
It occurred after my repentance from sin and crucifixion with Christ.
After which, I was "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life." (Rom 6:4)

It did, because more is caught than taught. Demonstrating truth with falsehood distorts the truth.

What truth of the Pharisees are you referring to ?

You can, but you won't, as long as you regard yourself as sinless and thus equate yourself with Jesus.

Scripture says..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)
Good words to heed !

Not possible for you with this kind of prideful attitude. If you want to walk in the Spirit, then you must yield to the Spirit, be equally yoked with the Holy Spirit.

Can you "yield to the Spirit" and still commit sins ?
I know it can't happen.

Then why did he tell that to Nicodemus?

He did tell him that one must be born again, and of the Spirit.
He just didn't give the retails of how, as He was still waiting for things to play out.

No you don't.

Yes, I do know.
It is evident in my life and in the lives of the converted that I know or have read about.

You're promoting work based religion, as though you can do it all by your own effort to please God.

I have never said any works of the Law were necessary for salvation.

Saying you repent of your sins means nothing, true repentance must be substantiated with spiritual fruits.

That is right, so why does bearing that fruit so disturb you ?

"Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones." (Matt. 3:7-9) This warning applies to the church who are adopted as Abraham's descedants through Christ - "And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal. 3:29) In Rev. 6, the white robe of righteousness is given to the saints after they were dead, not before. If you think you're already righteous and you've had a ticket to heaven, you're deceiving yourself.

If you are going to wait until the day of judgment to get righteous, it will be too late.
God gave you a life in which to serve Him.
Use it appropriately !

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Jesus already saved me...from sin.
Peter said..."Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." (Acts 3:26)
Don't you want that blessing ?

"O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin." (Rom. 7:24-25) Was Paul saved? Why was he still struggling with sin in the present sense? And don't lecture me on grammars, for the book of Romans is NOT historical narrative, but theological teaching. If Paul with his flesh was still serving the law of sin, then neither you nor I is greater than he.

Thank God the Spirit within me, is of Him !

The gift of the Holy Ghost is only given to the repentant. (Acts 2:38)
If you don't quit sinning, you get nothing from God.
And who ever said we will bear fruit in equal amounts ?

You did. In your logic, you repent, you automatically bear fruit, while the Scripture speaks in reverse order - "therefore bear fruit worthy of repentance."

I have already suffered the wages of my sin, with my death.
It occurred after my repentance from sin and crucifixion with Christ.
After which, I was "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life." (Rom 6:4)

That "death" is referring to literal, mortal death, the end of life on earth, the same kind of death Christ himself experienced. You've repented nothing as long as you promote the heresy of "sinless perfection" in this life. You're being misled by an evil spirit.

What truth of the Pharisees are you referring to ?

What truth were you referring to?

Scripture says..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)
Good words to heed !

Scripture also says:
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (1 Jn. 1:5-10)

 

[Hopeful 2]

"O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin." (Rom. 7:24-25) Was Paul saved?

Yes, as he had already said how that "body" in Rom 6:6...Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

Why was he still struggling with sin in the present sense? And don't lecture me on grammars, for the book of Romans is NOT historical narrative, but theological teaching. If Paul with his flesh was still serving the law of sin, then neither you nor I is greater than he.

He was telling the story of his pre-conversion life, during which he was still walking in the "flesh". (Rom 7:5)
Unsuccessfully trying to be righteous by the Law of Moses.
Rom 6 tells us how to get rid of the "flesh".

You did. In your logic, you repent, you automatically bear fruit, while the Scripture speaks in reverse order - "therefore bear fruit worthy of repentance."

The only thing that is "automatic" after a genuine repentance from sin is that you won't bear the fruit of the devil anymore.

That "death" is referring to literal, mortal death, the end of life on earth, the same kind of death Christ himself experienced.

That is right, and the rebirth afterward assures we won't walk after the "flesh" again.

You've repented nothing as long as you promote the heresy of "sinless perfection" in this life. You're being misled by an evil spirit.

Evil spirits want you to keep walking after the flesh and bearing the devil's fruit.

What truth were you referring to?

You'll have to retrace the posts to find out.

Scripture also says:
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (1 Jn. 1:5-10)

Can't you tell that only some of the verses apply to those who walk in the light-God ?
And only some of the verses apply to those who walk in the darkness-sin ?
Verses 5, 7, and 9 pertain to those walking in God.
Verses 6, 8, and 10, pertain to those walking in sin.
Sinners can't honestly say they have no sin.
Those in God can say they have no sin, as there is no darkness in God !

Maybe the next chapter can help clear up your misunderstanding.
It is written..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)
Those walking in darkness-sin don't keep His commandments, and don't know Him.
Those who do keep His commandments "know Him".

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Yes, as he had already said how that "body" in Rom 6:6...Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

Then why did he write about it in the next chapter? Isn't past supposed to be buried in the past? The Scripture doesn't contradict itself, YOU DO.

He was telling the story of his pre-conversion life, during which he was still walking in the "flesh". (Rom 7:5)
Unsuccessfully trying to be righteous by the Law of Moses.
Rom 6 tells us how to get rid of the "flesh".

No he was not. Paul wasn't telling any story, he was teaching theology in Rom. 7. You're distorting the word of God to promote a heresy.

The only thing that is "automatic" after a genuine repentance from sin is that you won't bear the fruit of the devil anymore.

Genuine repentance from sin demands spiritual fruits "worthy of repentance", which you have none.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That is right, and the rebirth afterward assures we won't walk after the "flesh" again.

No, you're speaking of death in a figurative sense, like you start to live serious for God and don't fool around any more. The flesh doesn't die when one is born of the spirit, it's in contention with the spirit till literal death, as described in Gal. 4:21-31.

Evil spirits want you to keep walking after the flesh and bearing the devil's fruit.

If you were walking in the newness of life, why are you still promoting the heresy of sinless perfection? Why are you still boasting with your pride instead of yielding to the Spirit?

You'll have to retrace the posts to find out.

I'm not interested in your own truth.

Can't you tell that only some of the verses apply to those who walk in the light-God ?
And only some of the verses apply to those who walk in the darkness-sin ?
Verses 5, 7, and 9 pertain to those walking in God.
Verses 6, 8, and 10, pertain to those walking in sin.
Sinners can't honestly say they have no sin.
Those in God can say they have no sin, as there is no darkness in God !

The only thing I can tell is that you're adulterating the word of God by picking particular verses that support your heresy and ignore the other inconvenient ones by rendering them "not applicable." John didn't mention any "them" in the first chapter of 1 John, he wasn't condemning "sinners", he was addressing to US, the church, the whole chapter, he didn't dice or slice his message.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Yes, I do know.
It is evident in my life and in the lives of the converted that I know or have read about.

No you don't. If you did, you wouldn't known how much Paul grieved over his persecution to the early church. He could've skipped that part and only preached Jesus, but instead, he confessed his sins and went clean. He didn't forget about all that and pretend it didn't exist.

I have never said any works of the Law were necessary for salvation.

As long as you suggest you "can" become sinless, you're implying work based religion. You cannot contribute anything to your spiritual birth as much as you can't contribute anything to your physical birth.

That is right, so why does bearing that fruit so disturb you ?

It doesn't. Pretending you're bearing that fruit disturbs me, that's complacency, the attitude of the Laodicean church.

If you are going to wait until the day of judgment to get righteous, it will be too late.

Except the robe of righteousness is given only after death:
"When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held." (Rev. 6:9)
"Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed." (Rev. 6:11)
These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev. 7:14)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Then why did he write about it in the next chapter? Isn't past supposed to be buried in the past? The Scripture doesn't contradict itself, YOU DO.

It is because he is writing about his past while still in the "flesh". (Rom 7:5)

No he was not. Paul wasn't telling any story, he was teaching theology in Rom. 7. You're distorting the word of God to promote a heresy.

Your attempt to include being in the "flesh" as a Christian, is a nonstarter.
Christians walk in the Spirit, and not in the "flesh".
They have crucified the flesh, with its vile affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
It is dead and buried with Christ. (Ro 6:3-6)
We are perfect ! (Rom 6:7)

Genuine repentance from sin demands spiritual fruits "worthy of repentance", which you have none.

I am trying to convince you of something I would never have dared messed with while I walked in the now dead 'flesh".
Being here is the fruit you are privy to.
But you can't see my whole new life.

What fruit are you bringing forth while you defend sin ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

No, you're speaking of death in a figurative sense, like you start to live serious for God and don't fool around any more.

I am speaking of an actual death.
Those supporting a "spiritual death only" heresy manifest the heresy with continued works of the supposedly dead "flesh".
They keep sinning !

The flesh doesn't die when one is born of the spirit, it's in contention with the spirit till literal death, as described in Gal. 4:21-31.

Yes it does.
If it is not dead, why does the Spirit need to quicken it ?
It is written..."But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." (Rom 8:11)

If you were walking in the newness of life, why are you still promoting the heresy of sinless perfection? Why are you still boasting with your pride instead of yielding to the Spirit?

I can only proclaim what the power of God is capable of.
If you see that as boasting, tough.

I'm not interested in your own truth.

Thanks be to God I have no "own" truth.
Only His truth, that can make us all free from service to sin. (John 8:32-34)

The only thing I can tell is that you're adulterating the word of God by picking particular verses that support your heresy and ignore the other inconvenient ones by rendering them "not applicable." John didn't mention any "them" in the first chapter of 1 John, he wasn't condemning "sinners", he was addressing to US, the church, the whole chapter, he didn't dice or slice his message.

I have been blessed with the ability to see that when scriptures supporting sin in Christ are presented I have been afforded the words to deny the untruths.
There is no darkness in God.
Neither is there darkness in those walking in God.

Do you know God ?
Here is how to tell..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)

 

[Hopeful 2]

No you don't. If you did, you wouldn't known how much Paul grieved over his persecution to the early church. He could've skipped that part and only preached Jesus, but instead, he confessed his sins and went clean. He didn't forget about all that and pretend it didn't exist.

The sins were from before his conversion/repentance from sin/rebirth.
You are aware of that...right ?
What is your point ?

As long as you suggest you "can" become sinless, you're implying work based religion.

As long as the "works" are not circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, tithing, for salvation, I have violated none of the precepts set down by Paul.

You cannot contribute anything to your spiritual birth as much as you can't contribute anything to your physical birth.

Not to my rebirth, except obeying the command to do it.
But I can do plenty to manifest is happened: with every charitable incident, with every time I tell the truth instead of lying, with every time I buy instead of steal.
The unconverted can't say that.

It doesn't.

Then quit referring to it.

Pretending you're bearing that fruit disturbs me, that's complacency, the attitude of the Laodicean church.

As you know nothing about me, except that I preach righteousness, on what are you basing your accusations ?

Except the robe of righteousness is given only after death:

They won't be given to those who die in unrighteousness.

"When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held." (Rev. 6:9)
"Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed." (Rev. 6:11)
These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev. 7:14)

All who turn from sin permanently, and die for their faith in Christ, will get a white robe.
Sinners will get a trip to the lake of fire.
Thanks be to God for allowing us the way to be non-sinners !

 

[electedbyHim]

That's exactly how you ignore sin, downplaying the gravity of sin, pretending this world is a utopia and you're immune to it. You're deceiving yourself.

You didn't, all you did is boasting and lecturing on me with your heresy of sinless perfection.

Which you did not receive because you think you have no sin and no need for salvation.

You're just like that Pharisee, boasting before God of how great he is. You have no Christ in you.

Then that's you, loving your sin of pride instead of crucifying it on the cross. Jesus being a perfect sacrifice is one thing, whether you and I present ourselves as living sacrifice acceptable to God is another.

The battle is never over until we're gone, 'cause we're still living in fleshly bodies. Being born again in the Spirit is the beginning, not the end.

He didn't boast that he was born of the Spirit, neither did he tell the rich young ruler to be born of the Spirit.

As long as you preach the heresy of sinless perfection, you're still the old creature, there's no spiritual fruit in you. Paul lamented and confessed his sins of persecuting the early church, all he once held dear, he counted as loss. I saw none of that in you. All I see is the typical Laodicean conplacency - "I'm rich, I've made myself wealthy, and I need nothing."

I back you up on this.

Hopeful 2 is self-deceived.