Agreed.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
The Heresy of Sinless Perfection as Held by Some Here
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
- Status
yes, a solid overview of sin, which we all are liable to..
I think that sort of comment is against the rules here.
The man has what is not mentioned in the bible...a sin nature.
The new creature doesn't.
It is reborn of God in Whom is no such nature.
Rom 3's list of condemning verses were all quotes from OT writings.
Paul was using them to show the Jews that even thought they had the Law, they still needed a Redeemer.
They were no better off than the Gentiles.
Lets call the doctrine what Paul labels it in 1 Tim 6:3..."If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;"
I had no idea that folks on a Christian web site would fight so hard against righteousness.
It is written..."But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:" (Rom 3:20-21)
Read it carefully, "IF"...
If we walk in darkness-sin, verses 6, 8, and 10 apply to us.
If we walk in the light-God, verses 5. 7, and 9 apply to us.
No boasting, just the glorification of God.
Who gets the glory for continued sinning ?
You mean the One that called the scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, and blind, and fools, in Matt 23 ?
And children of the devil in John 8 ?
If conformity to Jesus is the sign of rebirth, what is continued sin a sign of ?
Are you really saying Jesus was not good ?
Are you "in Christ" ?
Carry_Your_Name
Member
I think that is written in the bible: "And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie." (2 Thess. 2:11)
Then why are we still mortal, subject to temptations, disease and death?
And you think you don't need a Redeemer? "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance." (Matt. 9:12-13)
"... he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions." This is an indictment of your own pride, ironically.
We only fight so hard against SELF-righteousness, following Jesus, our master in heaven. Throughout his ministry, he had been gentle and gracious to everyone, even the Roman soldiers who beat him and crucified him. The only group he harshly condemned was the Pharisees and other religious elites who thought they were perfectly sinless by keeping the law with no need of salvation.
If we are still in sin, saying you have no sin is a lie.
And the indication of still walking in darkness.
But if you have repented of sin, and been washed of past sins by the blood of Christ, and continue to walk in the light, you can say you have no sin !
You know what really "defames God" ?
Saying that the death and resurrection of His Son was not enough to free you from sin.
Not everyone continues to walk in darkness after their alleged conversion.
Not everyone makes their repentance from sin a lie to God.
Some walk in the light.
It is in the bible.
The devil's delusions don't exhort men to obey God.
Jesus said those that believe in Him will never die.
The Advocate has done all that He can for me, thank God: now it is up to me to endure faithfully until Jesus returns to judge the world.
You should read the prior verse again.
As the righteousness available to us here now is of God, your fight is pointless.
Sinners serve sin, not God. (John 8:32-34, Matt 6:24)
Yep, only the phonies caught His wrath.
How will He react to those who call themselves Christians, but continue to serve sin ?
He told us in Matt 7:23..."And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Carry_Your_Name
Member
Oh great, so now you get to choose and pick which of God's words "apply" to you and which don't? You get to decide which ones to keep and which ones to discard?
There is no glorification until the Lord returns.
What you're describing is pretending to be Jesus and usurping His authority, not comforming to His image. A true follower who conforms to His image would be like Paul who confesses his sins and surrenders to Jesus.
Go check Matt. 19:17 and parellel verses in Luke and Mark. Don't take my word for it, 'cause it's the Lord's own words, not mine. You doubt it because you're full of pride, you'll never understand why Jesus first and foremost glorified the Father. If it were you, you'd surely say, "yes, I'm good, I'm born again and righteous." With this kind of attitude, you're not in Christ.
I get the Spirit of God to make it known to me which verses apply to those in sin and which verses apply to those in God.
We can glorify Him in everything we do.
You are making things up.
True followers of Jesus don't follow false shepherds who preach accommodations for sin.
You are misreading it.
Is Jesus "good" ?
Carry_Your_Name
Member
That delusion is sent from God himself, not the devil. A strong delusion such as "sinless perfection."
Then why do we still die? Why did Jesus himself die on the cross?
With this kind of attitude you will not. If you don't believe there's sin, you don't believe Jesus died for the sin of mankind.
There's no "prior" verse, the two are in one sentence!
That white robe of righteousness is available only in heaven, not on earth. "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Rev. 7:14)
You're exactly like that Pharisee who boasts before God and mocks the tax collector as a sinner. Shame on you.
You're condemning yourself, for you are full of pride, the sin of all sins. This is exactly as Paul warned in 2 Tim. 3:5 - "... a form of godliness but denying its power."
Last edited:
All Christians are to walk in the light and they do. The also are still able to sin.
(4.) Christians are not presented in the New Testament as completely pure and holy, but, on the contrary, the very best of them acknowledge the existence of sinful tendencies, and pronounce any idea of freedom from the presence of sin to be a delusion. The faults of good men, such as Peter, James and John, and Thomas, and Paul and Barnabas (Acts 15:37–40) are especially mentioned, and John who declares that "whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not" (1 John 5:18) is the very apostle who, in a previous part of that very same epistle, teaches that "if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8. Paul constantly speaks of himself as still struggling against the power of sin, as not counting himself to have attained, as buffeting his body and bringing it into bondage lest he should be rejected, and thus he gives us, in his descriptions of his own experience, a pattern of what has been almost universally acknowledged as that of every other Christian.
Last edited:
Carry_Your_Name
Member
No you don't, you're just like everybody else who filters out the parts which they deem "offensive".
Then stop preaching your heresy, repent and confess your sins.
Then why are you following Nieztsche? If there were no sin, then Jesus died for nothing. You are so ignorant because you don't read the OT, you don't know anything about sin and the gravity thereof. Paul laid it out in Rom. 7:7 - "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
No, you're misreading it. Is Jesus good or not I don't know, all I read is that you exalt yourself as good as Jesus.
6. The partial sanctification of this life is also progressive. It is not a certain degree of attainment, possessed by all alike, and remaining always in this life the same; it is a growth from the seed planted in regeneration, which is constantly bringing forth new leaves, and new fruit; it grows with increased intellectual knowledge of God's truth, with a clearer perception of human sinfulness and corruption, with stronger faith and brighter hope, and more confident assurance of personal acceptance with God, with a more heartfelt conception of the sacrificing love of Christ, and with a more realizing belief in his constant presence and knowledge of what we do. It even increases from its own acquired strength and through the suffering and doing in which it is developed. In these and many other ways do Christians grow in grace and in the knowledge of Christ, and in conformity to his image, "cleansing themselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." 2 Cor. 7:1.
When, however, this sanctification is said to be progressive, it is not meant to deny the imperfections before referred to, nor to assert that there is a constant rise upward to God and toward his holy perfection. The Christian life on earth is a warfare with sin, and the believer is not always without failure. He often yields to temptation, sometimes falls even into most grievous sin. The personal experience, presented by Paul, in the seventh chapter of Romans, is so strong a statement of such struggles that some have been inclined to confine its application to a time prior to acceptance of the gospel.
But there can be no question of the applicability to Christians of the declaration made to the Galatians, "The flesh lusteth against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary the one to the other; that ye may not do the things that ye would." Gal. 5:17.
But the progress of sanctification is nevertheless continuous. These temptations and struggles enter into that progress, and not only they, but even the sins and falls which mar the Christian life. The process of sanctification is like the ascent of a mountain. One is always going forward, though not always upward, yet the final end of the progressive movement of every kind is the attainment of the summit.
J.P.Boyce
When, however, this sanctification is said to be progressive, it is not meant to deny the imperfections before referred to, nor to assert that there is a constant rise upward to God and toward his holy perfection. The Christian life on earth is a warfare with sin, and the believer is not always without failure. He often yields to temptation, sometimes falls even into most grievous sin. The personal experience, presented by Paul, in the seventh chapter of Romans, is so strong a statement of such struggles that some have been inclined to confine its application to a time prior to acceptance of the gospel.
But there can be no question of the applicability to Christians of the declaration made to the Galatians, "The flesh lusteth against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary the one to the other; that ye may not do the things that ye would." Gal. 5:17.
But the progress of sanctification is nevertheless continuous. These temptations and struggles enter into that progress, and not only they, but even the sins and falls which mar the Christian life. The process of sanctification is like the ascent of a mountain. One is always going forward, though not always upward, yet the final end of the progressive movement of every kind is the attainment of the summit.
J.P.Boyce
John Owen;
1. Indwelling sin stays with us while we are in this world; therefore we always need to mortify it. The useless, foolish, and ignorant disputes we get into about keeping the commands of God perfectly, of somehow reaching perfection in this life, of being wholly and perfectly dead to sin, I will not get into now. It is more than probable that the people who promote such ideas never knew what it takes to keep any of God’s commands. They are so far from perfection that they never sincerely strived for even partial obedience, much less universal obedience. And so, many in our day who talk of perfection have been wiser than we, and they assert that perfection consists in knowing no difference between good and evil. Their perfection is not in the things we call good. Instead it is all the same to them; the height of wickedness is their perfection. Others have found a new way to perfection by denying original, indwelling sin. They bend the spirituality of God’s law to men’s carnal hearts. They realize that they are ignorant of the life of Christ and its power in believers, so they have invented a new righteousness that the gospel knows nothing of. They are uselessly puffed up by their fleshly minds. There are those of us who do not dare to be wise beyond what is written, nor do we boast by other men’s measure of what God has or has not done for us. We say that indwelling sin lives in us to some degree as long as we are in this world. Wedo not dare to speak as “though we had already attained, or were already perfect.”21 Our “inward man is to be renewed day by day” while we live here.22Amid the renovations of the new are the breaches and decays of the old. While we are here we “know but in part.”23 We have a darkness remaining that needs to be gradually removed by our “growth in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.”24 But “the flesh lusts against the Spirit, so that we cannot do the things that we want to do,”25and we are therefore defective in our obedience as well as in our light.26 We have a “body of death”27from which we are not delivered until the death of our bodies.28 Now, having a duty to mortify, to kill sin while it is in us, we need to get to work. If someone is appointed to kill an enemy, and he ceases striking before the other ceases living, he does only half his work.
1. Indwelling sin stays with us while we are in this world; therefore we always need to mortify it. The useless, foolish, and ignorant disputes we get into about keeping the commands of God perfectly, of somehow reaching perfection in this life, of being wholly and perfectly dead to sin, I will not get into now. It is more than probable that the people who promote such ideas never knew what it takes to keep any of God’s commands. They are so far from perfection that they never sincerely strived for even partial obedience, much less universal obedience. And so, many in our day who talk of perfection have been wiser than we, and they assert that perfection consists in knowing no difference between good and evil. Their perfection is not in the things we call good. Instead it is all the same to them; the height of wickedness is their perfection. Others have found a new way to perfection by denying original, indwelling sin. They bend the spirituality of God’s law to men’s carnal hearts. They realize that they are ignorant of the life of Christ and its power in believers, so they have invented a new righteousness that the gospel knows nothing of. They are uselessly puffed up by their fleshly minds. There are those of us who do not dare to be wise beyond what is written, nor do we boast by other men’s measure of what God has or has not done for us. We say that indwelling sin lives in us to some degree as long as we are in this world. Wedo not dare to speak as “though we had already attained, or were already perfect.”21 Our “inward man is to be renewed day by day” while we live here.22Amid the renovations of the new are the breaches and decays of the old. While we are here we “know but in part.”23 We have a darkness remaining that needs to be gradually removed by our “growth in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.”24 But “the flesh lusts against the Spirit, so that we cannot do the things that we want to do,”25and we are therefore defective in our obedience as well as in our light.26 We have a “body of death”27from which we are not delivered until the death of our bodies.28 Now, having a duty to mortify, to kill sin while it is in us, we need to get to work. If someone is appointed to kill an enemy, and he ceases striking before the other ceases living, he does only half his work.
Last edited:
2. Sin not only still abides in us, but it still acts, still labors to bring out the deeds of the flesh.When sin lets us alone, we may let sin alone. But sin is never less quiet than when it seems most quiet. Its waters are deepest when they are still. So we need to vigorously root out sin at all times and in all conditions, even where we least suspect it. Sin not only stays in us, but “the law of the members of the body is still rebelling against the law of the mind,”30and “the spirit that dwells in us tends to envy.”31Sin is always at work. “The flesh opposes the Spirit.”32 Lust is still tempting and conceiving sin.33In every moral action, sin inclines towards evil, or it hinders good, or it disengages the spirit from communion with God. It inclines to evil. “The evil I do not want to do, that is just what I do,” says the apostle.34Why is that? “Because nothing good lives in me (that is, in my flesh),” verse 18.And sin hinders me from doing good: “The good that I want to do, I do not do,”verse 19. “In the same way, either I do not do it, or I do not do it as I should; allof my holy things are being defiled by this sin.”35“The flesh lusts against the Spirit, so that I cannot do the things that I want to do.”36
Sin distracts our spirit,and so it is called “The sin that so easily entangles us.”37 That is why the apostle has such grievous complaints about it in Romans 7.So sin is always acting, always conceiving, always seducing and tempting. Who can say that he ever had anything to do with God or for God, that indwelling sin did not have a hand in corrupting? And sin will have this impact more or less allof our life. If sin is always acting, and we are not always mortifying, then we arelost creatures. If a man stands still and allows his enemies to beat him without resistance, then he will undoubtedly be conquered. If sin is subtle, watchful,strong, and always at work in the business of killing our souls, and we are slothful, negligent, and foolish in trying to ruin its efforts, then how can we expect a good outcome? There is not a day that goes by that sin either foils or isfoiled, that it either wins or loses; and it will be this way all the while we live inthis world.I will release anyone from this duty that can make sin surrender, that can bring acessation of arms in this warfare. If sin will spare him one day, even one duty(assuming he is acquainted with the spirituality of obedience and the subtlety ofsin), he may say to his soul, “Take the day off in this duty.” The saints long for deliverance from sin’s bewildering rebellion. They know that the only safety against it is constant warfare
Sin distracts our spirit,and so it is called “The sin that so easily entangles us.”37 That is why the apostle has such grievous complaints about it in Romans 7.So sin is always acting, always conceiving, always seducing and tempting. Who can say that he ever had anything to do with God or for God, that indwelling sin did not have a hand in corrupting? And sin will have this impact more or less allof our life. If sin is always acting, and we are not always mortifying, then we arelost creatures. If a man stands still and allows his enemies to beat him without resistance, then he will undoubtedly be conquered. If sin is subtle, watchful,strong, and always at work in the business of killing our souls, and we are slothful, negligent, and foolish in trying to ruin its efforts, then how can we expect a good outcome? There is not a day that goes by that sin either foils or isfoiled, that it either wins or loses; and it will be this way all the while we live inthis world.I will release anyone from this duty that can make sin surrender, that can bring acessation of arms in this warfare. If sin will spare him one day, even one duty(assuming he is acquainted with the spirituality of obedience and the subtlety ofsin), he may say to his soul, “Take the day off in this duty.” The saints long for deliverance from sin’s bewildering rebellion. They know that the only safety against it is constant warfare
Last edited:
. Sin always aims at the extreme. If it had its way,every time it rises up to tempt or entice, it would go out to the most extreme sinof that kind. If it could, every unclean thought or glance would become adultery. Every covetous desire would become oppression. If it were allowed its own reign, every thought of unbelief would become atheism. Men may reach a point,where sin is so unrestrained, that it no longer stings their conscience. The most outrageous sin no longer seems scandalous. If every impulse of lust were satisfied, it would reach the height of villainy. Sin is like the grave that is neversatisfied.39This is part of the deceitfulness of sin, which hardens men’s hearts and leads totheir ruin.40It is subtle in its initial approach, and so we succumb to it. But onceit has a hold on our heart by these little concessions, it gains a footing; and thenit presses on in increasing degrees of the same kind. This continual pressingf orward fools the soul into thinking the separation from God that has already happened is insignificant. It thinks that if there is no further progress, then nothing is different. To the extent the soul is made insensitive to a sin, that is,insensitive to what the gospel requires of the believer, that is the extent to which the heart is hardened. But sin still presses forward. That is because the only boundary it has is our complete relinquishment of God, and our opposition tohim. Its ability to proceed towards this extreme end by degrees, and to makegood the ground it has gotten by hardness, does not come from its nature, but from its deceitfulness. Nothing can prevent this infiltration but mortification.
Mortification will wither the root of the sin, and strike at its head every hour, sothat whatever it aims at it is thwarted. If the best saint in the world shirks this duty, he will fall into as many cursed sins as anyone else
Mortification will wither the root of the sin, and strike at its head every hour, sothat whatever it aims at it is thwarted. If the best saint in the world shirks this duty, he will fall into as many cursed sins as anyone else
6. It is our duty to be “perfecting holiness out of the fear of God.”It is our duty to “grow in grace” daily.
It is our duty to “renew our inward man day by day.” Now, this cannot be done without mortifying sin day by day. Sin strongly opposes every act of holiness, and every degree to which we grow. Noman should think he is making any progress in holiness if he does not walk over the dead bodies of his lusts. Anyone who does not kill sin that stands in his way is not taking any steps towards his journey’s end. Anyone who finds no opposition from sin, and does not take every opportunity to mortify it, is actually at peace with sin; he is not dying to it. This, then, is the first general principle of our ensuing discourse. Let me put it this way: despite the death of each and every sin on the cross of Christ, sin remains. Despite the foundation of mortification afforded by our conversion, our wn conviction of sin, and our humiliation for sin, sin remains. Despite the new moral strength to oppose and destroy sin that has been implanted in us, sin remains. Sin has such an effect on the best of believers that, as long as they live in this world, the constant daily mortification of sin remains their obligation.
It is our duty to “renew our inward man day by day.” Now, this cannot be done without mortifying sin day by day. Sin strongly opposes every act of holiness, and every degree to which we grow. Noman should think he is making any progress in holiness if he does not walk over the dead bodies of his lusts. Anyone who does not kill sin that stands in his way is not taking any steps towards his journey’s end. Anyone who finds no opposition from sin, and does not take every opportunity to mortify it, is actually at peace with sin; he is not dying to it. This, then, is the first general principle of our ensuing discourse. Let me put it this way: despite the death of each and every sin on the cross of Christ, sin remains. Despite the foundation of mortification afforded by our conversion, our wn conviction of sin, and our humiliation for sin, sin remains. Despite the new moral strength to oppose and destroy sin that has been implanted in us, sin remains. Sin has such an effect on the best of believers that, as long as they live in this world, the constant daily mortification of sin remains their obligation.
This has two evil influences on unmortified professors of Christ –(l.) It hardens them, by persuading them that they are as good as the best professors of Christ. Whatever they see exemplified in the best professors, is so colored by their own lack of mortification, that it has no value to them. They have a zeal for religion, but they lack restraint and universal righteousness. They reject wastefulness, but practice worldliness. They separate from the world; but living entirely to themselves, they take no care to exercise loving-kindness. Or they talk spiritually, but they live in vanity. They mention communion with God, but they are conformed to the world in every way. They boast of the forgiveness of sin, and yet they never forgive others. And with such mindsets, these poor creatures harden their hearts by their unrepentance.(2.) They deceive others, by making them believe it would be good if everyone could be as spiritual as they purport to be. And so it becomes an easy thing for others to be tempted by religious fame, and to go far beyond what they see in these false professors. Yet, they will still come short of eternal life. But this, and all the evils of walking without mortifying sin, will come later.
- Status