The Holy Spirit must be a Person

[KV-44-v1]

Jesus wasn't inherently anointed or empowered until his water baptism. This was the time that Jesus began being tested and going around doing miracles. It means he isn't God., bur rather God did miracles through him, much in the same way God did miracles through others.

Jesus-reducer still trying his best to smear Jesus. :eyeroll:

You START from the belief originating in JW and Islam and force it on the Bible.
Unitarianism is a form of Humanism because humans are one-person and they want to drag God to their level.



Trinity truth glorifies God BECAUSE it is from the Bible. Unitarianism would dare to turn God into allah or the JW god or any pagan mono person gods.

Unitism also FAILS to explain why God would create 3 time areas, past present future, instead of having all ones. Creation reflects God's nature, and it sure does NOT reflect a puny "unitrine" god!
But rather, the Mighty Triune God.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Think loooong and hard why God would allow the orthodox Christian teaching to be Trinitarian, runningaway man.


Do you really think God wants unitrainsm to be believed? Why is the case for it so full of holes? Why does every cult and many false religions believe it instead of Trinity Truth?

Nearly all your "Biblical evidence of unitarinsm" is just proof of monothiesm. None of it backing that God is actually allah of islam.

Because if God is unitrine then Islam is true instead. Either youre for God or against, and taking Islam's stance on how many Persons is God is compromise with Islam. Foundation of sand, mix and match worldview.

 

[My Rock]

Unitarianism is a form of Humanism because humans are one-person and they want to drag God to their level.

I agree with Jesus reducing being very bad for sure. But to this comment I say if Man is One person why wouldn't God be One being. After all: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Whose image we are is One.

 

[Alfred Persson]

This passage is the only place. Plus the very next verse show how He alone created. And in these verses there is no we, our, us, they or them. But there is alone, by myself, no one else, none beside me, etc.....

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD."
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me."
Isaiah 45:21-22 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else."
Deuteronomy 4:35 "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him."
Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
1 Kings 8:60 "That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else."
2 Samuel 7:22 "Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears."
1 Chronicles 17:20 "O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears."
Hosea 13:4 "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me."
Mark 12:29 "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."
Mark 12:32 "And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he."
John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
Romans 3:30 "Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."
1 Corinthians 8:4 "As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one."
1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
Galatians 3:20 "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one."
Ephesians 4:6 "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

To win the argument you need a scripture that says "I am one Person".

Trinitarians believe only one Being is God, and His name is Yahweh and beside Him there is no Saviour. Subsisting "IN" (not "beside" or "alongside" or "apart from") this One Infinite God, are Three Divine Persons Father Son and Holy Spirit.

WE believe there is only One God, we do not believe God is only One Person. God is One in a compound Unity.

We must believe this because Scripture is 100% true, and the data within it Speaks of Three Divine Persons who are the One God, equally. The Father is the Monarch, the Son is the Only Begotten, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. But these personal relationships are in love and do not imply any inferiority one under another. All thee subsist in the One Essence of God equally. Do we claim to understand how this is? No, its a divine secret that was revealed to us via the scripture. So we believe it.

 

[My Rock]

Jesus-reducer still trying his best to smear Jesus. :eyeroll:

You START from the belief originating in JW and Islam and force it on the Bible.
Unitarianism is a form of Humanism because humans are one-person and they want to drag God to their level.



Trinity truth glorifies God BECAUSE it is from the Bible. Unitarianism would dare to turn God into allah or the JW god or any pagan mono person gods.

Unitism also FAILS to explain why God would create 3 time areas, past present future, instead of having all ones. Creation reflects God's nature, and it sure does NOT reflect a puny "unitrine" god!
But rather, the Mighty Triune God.

The idea that God would send a distinct person that is not Himself to redeem humanity if He desired a truly human experience presents a theological challenge that raises questions about the very nature of God’s purpose in redemption. Bible affirms that God is absolutely one and that the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily in Jesus Christ (Colossians 2:9). This upholds that Jesus is God Himself manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16), fully divine and fully human.

If God’s purpose was to fully identify with humanity, experiencing the struggles, temptations, and limitations of human life, it would seem inconsistent for Him to send a distinct person not Himself to accomplish this. Instead, God Himself took on human nature, becoming both the Redeemer and the one being redeemed in the person of Jesus Christ. This aligns with the biblical narrative that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:19), not through an intermediary or distinct person, but through His own incarnation.

The thought here is that God’s desire to fully experience and redeem humanity could only be perfectly fulfilled by God Himself becoming man. If Jesus were a distinct person sent by the Father and not God's own Human body, the intimacy and completeness of that human experience would be diminished, as it would imply a separation within the Godhead that the Bible does not support. Instead, Jesus’ humanity was the vehicle through which God Himself experienced our condition, demonstrating His profound love and commitment to redeeming His creation.

This theological truth is further supported by passages like John 14:9, where Jesus says, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father," indicating that in seeing Jesus, one sees the full revelation of God. The incarnation was not about God sending another, but about God becoming Emmanuel, “God with us” (Matthew 1:23). This reveals the depth of God’s oneness—His ability to enter His creation and fully partake in the human experience without dividing His essence.

 

[KV-44-v1]

The idea that God would send a distinct person that is not Himself to redeem humanity if He desired a truly human experience presents a theological challenge that raises questions about the very nature of God’s purpose in redemption. Bible affirms that God is absolutely one and that the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily in Jesus Christ (Colossians 2:9). This upholds that Jesus is God Himself manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16), fully divine and fully human.

If God’s purpose was to fully identify with humanity, experiencing the struggles, temptations, and limitations of human life, it would seem inconsistent for Him to send a distinct person not Himself to accomplish this. Instead, God Himself took on human nature, becoming both the Redeemer and the one being redeemed in the person of Jesus Christ. This aligns with the biblical narrative that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:19), not through an intermediary or distinct person, but through His own incarnation.

The thought here is that God’s desire to fully experience and redeem humanity could only be perfectly fulfilled by God Himself becoming man. If Jesus were a distinct person sent by the Father and not God's own Human body, the intimacy and completeness of that human experience would be diminished, as it would imply a separation within the Godhead that the Bible does not support. Instead, Jesus’ humanity was the vehicle through which God Himself experienced our condition, demonstrating His profound love and commitment to redeeming His creation.

This theological truth is further supported by passages like John 14:9, where Jesus says, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father," indicating that in seeing Jesus, one sees the full revelation of God. The incarnation was not about God sending another, but about God becoming Emmanuel, “God with us” (Matthew 1:23). This reveals the depth of God’s oneness—His ability to enter His creation and fully partake in the human experience without dividing His essence.

Was addressing runningman.

 

[KV-44-v1]

But to this comment I say if Man is One person why wouldn't God be One being. After all: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Man: body soul spirit.
God does not want us to "be" Him. One-person humans were obviously the best choice.

Yes, the image of God. Doesn't say which Person though.

 

[kbmonday]

Each commenter should keep in mind that the idea that Jesus, Issa, is just a beloved man fits within the 'faith' of Islam. Not Christianity. What Muslims deny is that God IS the Father, God IS the Son, and God IS the Holy Spirit. All are one and the same God.
In a brief summary:
Muslims believe Jesus was a man born of a virgin - Quran 19:16-21
Jesus was a mere prophet who was anointed by God to foretell Mohammed (a blatant lie) Quran 5:46-47
Jesus performed miracles (they also say He sinned) as a sign of prophethood Quran 3:49 & 5:110
Jesus was not divine, denial that He is the Son (antichrist spirit) Quran 4:171 & 5:72-73
He will return and be the 'prophet' who points to the 'real' Messiah. This is a direct inversion of our faith and Bible. Quaran 43:61 Hadith.

Runningman - Are you a Muslim? Please I implore you not to lean on your own understanding. This is not the message of the Holy Spirit, but that of antichrist that the Bible warns about.

1 John 2:22 (KJV) - Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

 

[My Rock]

@Runningman - Are you a Muslim? Please I implore you not to lean on your own understanding. This is not the message of the Holy Spirit, but that of antichrist that the Bible warns about.

I would also like to know.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus-reducer still trying his best to smear Jesus. :eyeroll:

You START from the belief originating in JW and Islam and force it on the Bible.
Unitarianism is a form of Humanism because humans are one-person and they want to drag God to their level.



Trinity truth glorifies God BECAUSE it is from the Bible. Unitarianism would dare to turn God into allah or the JW god or any pagan mono person gods.

Unitism also FAILS to explain why God would create 3 time areas, past present future, instead of having all ones. Creation reflects God's nature, and it sure does NOT reflect a puny "unitrine" god!
But rather, the Mighty Triune God.

God consistently referred to Himself or was referred to as one, not three, throughout Scripture. That's what Unitarians believe. We have the Bible on our side. Unfortunately, you do not have anything that states what Trinitarianism does. You don't hold the Scriptural high ground.

John 17
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 Corinthians 8
6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Deuteronomy 6
4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

James 2
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

[kbmonday]

God consistently referred to Himself or was referred to as one, not three, throughout Scripture. That's what Unitarians believe. We have the Bible on our side. Unfortunately, you do not have anything that states what Trinitarianism does. You don't hold the Scriptural high ground.

John 17
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 Corinthians 8
6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Deuteronomy 6
4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

James 2
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Of course God is One. Just as I am mind body and spirit, so is He who formed me in the womb. Jesus is not just a man.
John 10:30 (KJV) - I and my Father are one.

 

[Runningman]

Think loooong and hard why God would allow the orthodox Christian teaching to be Trinitarian, runningaway man.


Do you really think God wants unitrainsm to be believed? Why is the case for it so full of holes? Why does every cult and many false religions believe it instead of Trinity Truth?

Nearly all your "Biblical evidence of unitarinsm" is just proof of monothiesm. None of it backing that God is actually allah of islam.

Because if God is unitrine then Islam is true instead. Either youre for God or against, and taking Islam's stance on how many Persons is God is compromise with Islam. Foundation of sand, mix and match worldview.

Your premise seems to be that because God is one person known as the Father then that validates Islam. I do not believe that is a sensible or logical conclusion since Christianity and Islam are not related.

You may as well be saying that because you feel God is Triune that the other religions who believe in a trinitarian god are also true. This only demonstrates the fallacy of your reasoning.

It is not about Christianity having its own exclusives that set it apart from others. It's about whatever the truth happens to be, whether we like it or not. Rather than attempt to make God bow down to our credal idols, we should be seeking after the truth He has already provided in Scripture about being one person who is the God.

So with that being said, the Trinity didn't originate in Christianity:

It already existed before hand in Sumeria where they believed the sky was divided into three regions, each the domain of a god.​

​

Babylonia, they had a three-person composite god with three heads represented by a triangle.​

​

Hinduism has it from 3,000 years ago.​

There are probably dozens of examples that predate the Trinitarianism model. So you're saying they're correct?

 

[Runningman]

Of course God is One. Just as I am mind body and spirit, so is He who formed me in the womb. Jesus is not just a man.
John 10:30 (KJV) - I and my Father are one.

Oneness in this context doesn't refer to being God. It refers to unity because the oneness Jesus has with God also refers to the oneness the disciples had with each other and they were not the same person or being. This unity the disciples shared with one another, they also shared with God and Jesus.

John 17
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

 

[kbmonday]

Oneness in this context doesn't refer to being God. It refers to unity because the oneness Jesus has with God also refers to the oneness the disciples had with each other and they were not the same person or being. This unity the disciples shared with one another, they also shared with God and Jesus.

John 17
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 17 is an allusion to the bride of Christ and Yeshua becoming one, just as a husband and wife. This very scripture seems to overturn your earlier assertion that He was anointed upon His baptism, right? I could be misinterpreting what you were saying though. John 17:5 (KJV) - And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[My Rock]

Oneness in this context doesn't refer to being God. It refers to unity because the oneness Jesus has with God also refers to the oneness the disciples had with each other and they were not the same person or being. This unity the disciples shared with one another, they also shared with God and Jesus.

John 17
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

In John 17:21-22, Jesus prays, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one." This passage underscores the profound unity that exists within the Godhead, as well as the unity that believers are called to share with God and one another.

The phrase "as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee" highlights the inseparable relationship between the Father and the Son as one God revealing Himself in different ways. The unity between the Father and the Son is a perfect expression of the divine nature, where Jesus, as the manifestation of God in the flesh, fully embodies the divine presence and mission. This unity is not just relational but is ontological, meaning that the Father and the Son share the same essence and being, which is why Jesus can say, "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).

Jesus’ prayer for His followers "that they may be one, even as we are one" speaks to the spiritual unity that believers are to experience with God through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This unity is made possible because of the work of Christ, who has bridged the gap between God and humanity, bringing believers into a relationship with the divine. The "glory" that Jesus mentions is the revelation of God’s presence and power, which He imparts to His followers, enabling them to partake in this divine unity.

The unity of believers with God and with each other is a reflection of the Oneness of God Himself. It communicates that just as the Father and the Son are one in essence, believers are invited into this oneness through their relationship with Christ. This unity is not about losing individual identity but about becoming fully aligned with God’s purpose and character, reflecting His love and glory to the world. It emphasizes that the same God who manifested as the Son to redeem us now dwells in us, bringing us into the same divine oneness that He shares within Himself.

 

[tigger II]

Your premise seems to be that because God is one person known as the Father then that validates Islam. I do not believe that is a sensible or logical conclusion since Christianity and Islam are not related.

You may as well be saying that because you feel God is Triune that the other religions who believe in a trinitarian god are also true. This only demonstrates the fallacy of your reasoning.

It is not about Christianity having its own exclusives that set it apart from others. It's about whatever the truth happens to be, whether we like it or not. Rather than attempt to make God bow down to our credal idols, we should be seeking after the truth He has already provided in Scripture about being one person who is the God.

So with that being said, the Trinity didn't originate in Christianity:

It already existed before hand in Sumeria where they believed the sky was divided into three regions, each the domain of a god.​

​

Babylonia, they had a three-person composite god with three heads represented by a triangle.​

​

Hinduism has it from 3,000 years ago.​

There are probably dozens of examples that predate the Trinitarianism model. So you're saying they're correct?

.............................................

My personal study: http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/09/history-of-christian-trinity-hist-part.html

 

[kbmonday]

.............................................

My personal study: http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/09/history-of-christian-trinity-hist-part.html

The Jews that follow Torah, Karaites, always believed in a plurality of sorts, but also a unity within the plurality. Hence Elohim, a plural form of Eloah, which is also used as a personal, singular name.

Is the Trinity in the Hebrew Scriptures? - Jews for Jesus

Though, it’s often held to be heretical in modern Judaism, the idea of a God being three-in-one actually has its roots in foundational Judaism.

jewsforjesus.org

 

[Alfred Persson]

Your PS aside, other than the medieval confusion over God’s name, and your sageism about [man of God]—where surely the principle must apply to children and women—I agree the substance your post. One could bring in the NWT which translate εκεινος as ‘he’. A big thing is to treat him, alongside the father and his son, as a person in our devotional life, spending time with him in prayer (excluding request): https://archive.org/details/prayers-gone-global-exploring-biblical-prayer/page/87/mode/1up.

I never gave that thought. I love God, Father Son and Holy Spirit. My love doesn't distinguish between the Persons.

Its correct I direct my prayer to the Father, but I am not thereby excluding the Spirit and I am fully aware Jesus' Sacrifice is the ONLY reason I can pray to the Father. His atoning sacrifice for my sin made my access to God possible.

But aside from that cerebral and very thankful thought, I don't distinguish the persons. I pray to God the Father without thereby excluding the Son or the Holy Spirit. I might briefly direct a prayer to Christ or the Holy Spirit, but I pray to God alone and it would never be in my thought all Three were not listening to my prayer.

9 "In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. (Matt. 6:9-13 NKJ)

Following Christ's instruction causes me to remember certain infallible truths every time I pray. I pray in that manner every day at least once.

Whether one can make this a topic of systematic theology is unanswered. But I believe all should follow their conscience, the divine revelation God gave them when they believed, and not become mechanical.

7 "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
8 "Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. (Matt. 6:7-8 NKJ)

 

[kbmonday]

I believe all should follow their conscience, the divine revelation God gave them when they believed, and not become mechanical.

Very good advice here, and edifying to the body instead of causing strife. Very good sir!

 

[Alfred Persson]

Very good advice here, and edifying to the body instead of causing strife. Very good sir!

Causing strife is never my goal. Some doctrine is defined so carefully one must insist it be followed, and the conscience be trained by Scripture. Conscience is never above scripture. But what prayer should be directed to which Person in the Holy Trinity I think is best left up to the believer praying, not me. That is between them and God, none of my business.