My Rock
Member
Agreed
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
The Holy Spirit must be a Person
- Thread starter Alfred Persson
- Start date
Because God is? No, IF He was. You are the one starting on untrian assumptions,, not me.
One in Deity, not one in Person. Thought you knew.
As has been demonstrated, by history (i.e. early church fathers) and by countless exchanges on this forum,
No.
May as well say JW and muslim do, too.
Proving my point. Stuck on proving monothiesm and not "belittled Jesus". The only one who sees unitriaism in there is you. Not children, not anyone here, just you.
Perhaps because it (uniraitsnism) is a blind belief created by pagans and humanists that grasps at straws, and is not, like you claim, on Scriptural ground.
One God the Son would be just as valid.
How can Jesus be our Lord if He's a puny man with no Divine nature? Idolatry in your view, not in ours.
Unitarianism stinks of what Pharisees would peddle. It bears those fruits.
Not under the Trinity Truth. Unitiarian "Christianity" is related to it though. Both like to limit their gods to one person.
Which would be....?
Sadly, you do that.
Three gods.
Degradation in knowledge. First we have Three Person God. Original truth. <TELEPHONE GAME> Now three gods. (-2 persons from God and make 2 gods) <TELEPHONE GAME> Knock down the other two, but keep the mono-person nature.
You see, unitrariasm is a DEGRADATION in knowledge of the True God. You believe a warping.
Trinity Truth perseveres. Unitarism will fail and wither.
Yep. Why would God allow a mere man to mediate for us? Indeed, Jesus is God.
If Jesus isn't God, the title "Son of God" is just a fancy title nothing more.
monothiesm.
While I agree wholeheartedly brother, this could have been said a bit more gently IMO. Sorry for the parenthetical, back to the topic.
EVEN AS We are One.
Yep, being all one was like "If they could all be one like Us".
The fact there is "EVEN AS We are One" strongly implies God and Jesus are One God but different Persons.My Rock
Member
More than One person would make praying difficult who to pray to. God being One I know exactly who to pray to.
No, if you pray to God you basically pray to all Three i think.
Prayers to the Son go to the Father.
And what if you are both correct?
1 John 5:7 (KJV) - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.My Rock
Member
I like it.
I'll check it out.
God, according to Scripture, is a person. There are 14 versions that say such, including the KJV.
Hebrews 1
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Additionally, according to Got Questions, God is indeed a person:
"God the Father is a Person with a mind (Isaiah 55:8–9), emotions (Psalm 78:40), and a will (1 Peter 2:15). God the Son is a Person with a mind (Luke 2:52), emotions (John 11:35), and a will (Luke 22:15). God the Holy Spirit is a Person with a mind (Romans 8:27), emotions (Ephesians 4:30), and a will (Galatians 5:17). All three Persons of the Trinity possess all the attributes of God (John 6:37-40; 8:17-25; Colossians 1:13-20; Psalm 90:2; 139:7–10; Job 42:2; 26:13; 1 Corinthians 2:9–11; Hebrews 9:14).
God shows His personal nature in that He expresses anger (Psalm 7:11), laughs (Psalm 2:4), has compassion (Psalm 135:14), loves (1 John 4:8), hates (Psalm 11:5), teaches (John 14:25), reproves (John 16:8), and leads (Romans 8:14). All of these actions imply the fact that God is a person."
Anyway, I will ask you a question rather than us just go round and round disagreeing. Why is it you think that having the divine nature means Jesus is God if you yourself can also have the divine nature?
So the disciples are one with each other, God, and Jesus without being God. Why do you make an unwarranted exception for Jesus?My Rock
MemberThe simplest way to express this belief is that worshiping God means worshiping Him in all His roles, not as separate persons. God is One, indivisible, omnipresent, omniscient, and invisible. He has no physical body, but in the fullness of time, God took His Self-Expressive Eternal Word—His thoughts, mind, actions, plan, and motives, which are inseparable from Him, just as a person’s words are inseparable from their being—and prepared a body, the Son, Jesus Christ. This Eternal Word, now embodied in the flesh, took on a new identity as the greatest revealed name of God. Even though we now know the Eternal Word in flesh as Jesus Christ, we will never forget that Jesus is and will always be the Eternal Word made manifest in human form. The term “Son of God” can refer to the human nature of Jesus or to God Himself manifested in the flesh—deity within human nature. It never refers to the incorporeal Spirit alone. While Jesus's flesh had a beginning in time, His glorified state is eternal, forever intertwined with His divine nature.
Moreover, the Holy Spirit indwells believers and is active in the world as the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ, functioning interchangeably. This indwelling is not the presence of a separate person, apparition, or phantom; rather, it is God Himself, and Christ Himself, coming into our hearts and working in the world. The right hand of God is not a literal position, but a symbol of His authority and power. All that God is—His divinity, His Word, His Spirit—will be forever contained and inseparably united in the glorified body of Jesus Christ for all eternity. This understanding encapsulates the Oneness of God, affirming that worshiping Jesus Christ is worshiping God in the fullness of His divine roles, eternally embodied and glorified in Christ.
What was Moses allowed to see ?
We know God is a spirit . Find me the verse that says God has no physical body .My Rock
Member
When Moses was allowed to see God's glory in Exodus 33:18-23, he only saw a veiled manifestation, as God covered him with His hand and allowed him to see His back, not His face. This encounter underscores the truth that God is One, indivisible, and invisible in His full glory, which no man can see and live. The symbolic significance lies in the fact that Moses, a prophet and mediator of the Old Covenant, could only behold a portion of God's glory, reflecting humanity's limited capacity to fully comprehend the divine. When Moses descended from the mountain, his face shone with the reflected glory of God, so much so that he had to veil his face when speaking to the people (Exodus 34:29-35). This radiance was a mere reflection, indicating that even this limited encounter with God had a profound, transformative effect.
Had Moses seen the full glory of God, it would have been overwhelming, for the fullness of God's glory is beyond human comprehension and capacity to endure. This encounter with the veiled manifestation of God points forward to the New Covenant, where the fullness of God's glory is revealed in Jesus Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15). In Christ, the indivisible and omnipresent God veiled His glory in human flesh, making Himself accessible to us while maintaining the truth of His invisible and omniscient nature. The practical lesson for believers is to recognize that while we cannot fully grasp God's glory in our current state, through Christ, we have access to the divine presence. Just as Moses was transformed by his encounter, we too are transformed by our relationship with Jesus, who is the ultimate revelation of God’s glory, now unveiled to us through His incarnation.
1 Timothy 1:17, "Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen."
Colossians 1:15, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."
1 Timothy 6:16, "Who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen."
1 Timothy 3:16, "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1. How is something invisible have physical form.
2. If The Word, which is God, had a physical body already why was a body prepared or what was the need to manifest if you already have a body.
Hi hawkman, a fascinating question and statement.
Interesting questions and a great point and counterpoint discussion. I may not be taking part, as I am an unlearned man, but I am following this discussion closely.My Rock
Member
I really hope these discussions are helping further the understanding of God for you and everyone.
Moses saw God as He IS .
Your answer below .
I don't see anything about God not having a physical body . I think instead of invisible , unseen God might be a better choice of wording . We know that Moses saw God . What are the properties of the physical Body of God that Moses was allowed to see are beyond our comprehension .
Because we can't see it does not mean it is without a physical property .
No one can see God's face and live .
Exodus 33
20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.My Rock
Member
Physical form means to be able to physically touch. If a spirit stood in front of you and you put your hand out it is just touching air.
A physical property refers to a characteristic of a material or substance that can be observed or measured without altering its chemical composition, such as color, density, or state of matter. In the context of understanding God, who is described in Scripture as invisible and beyond the physical realm (e.g., 1 Timothy 1:17), God inherently possesses no physical properties because He exists as a spirit (John 4:24). However, throughout biblical history, God has chosen to manifest Himself in physical forms at certain times for specific purposes. These manifestations include allowing Moses to see His back (Exodus 33:23), appearing in the burning bush (Exodus 3:2), speaking through a donkey (Numbers 22:28), and ultimately, His full and final revelation in Jesus Christ. In Christ, the invisible God took on human flesh, acquiring physical properties, and now remains forever glorified in this form (Colossians 2:9, Revelation 1:13-18). This illustrates that while God is inherently without physical properties, He has the power to reveal Himself in physical form according to His divine will.
Jesus' flesh is understood as the human body in which the fullness of God's glory is veiled. According to Scripture, no one has ever seen God in His full glory and lived (Exodus 33:20), because God's glory is overwhelming and beyond human capacity to endure. In the person of Jesus Christ, God chose to veil this glory in human flesh, making His presence accessible and relatable to humanity. Colossians 2:9 states, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily," indicating that Jesus' human body was the means through which the fullness of God's divine nature was expressed, yet in a way that was approachable and visible to mankind. While God's glory was veiled in Jesus' humanity, it was still fully present, as seen in moments like the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:2), where Jesus' divine glory was briefly revealed to His disciples. This veiling was necessary for God to dwell among us and fulfill His redemptive plan, ultimately revealing His glory in a way that humanity could witness without being destroyed by its fullness.
Just because we are not allowed to see God (as Moses DID ) in a physical form does not mean with certainty He does not have a physical form .
You have no scripture to base this on .