The Image of Christ

[ezrider]

1 Corinthians 2:9-16
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit:for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:for they are foolishness unto him:neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ

 

[Gary]

 

[agua.]

Chuck us some popcorn Gaz.

 

[Chopper]

Thanks Chopper. You my friend have asked the correct question: “How do I visualize something that is totally spiritual? And the answer is by other spiritual things by the gift of Faith.

As you will recall, I first proposed the question about worshipping the image of a man in your Bible study on the book of Deuteronomy. It might be good to remind everyone, that to understand where I am coming from, they really should start with my original post.



In that study, it stood significant to me the reason why the Lord appeared in a fire.

Deuteronomy 4:12 And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire:ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.

Deuteronomy 4:15-16 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female.

They heard only the voice of the words spoke, and saw no image that they should corrupt themselves. So I ask have we made Jesus a God after the manner of a man? And I contend that it is idolatry to worship the image of the man Jesus as God.



As I quoted above, it was through the book of Deuteronomy that the Lord revealed to me the man Jesus. Deuteronomy 18:15-19 was really quite profound. When I read the words spoken by Jesus, they are like unto the words spoken spoken out of the fire, for it was the Word of God, and it was the voice of a spirit, but the Word came in an image as Isaiah 53:1-2 says; when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

So that brings up a simple point that you make, that you often can not help but think of the man Jesus, and there is nothing wrong thinking about the image of the man Jesus, I think about the image of the man Jesus all the time, in fact the scripture teaches us that we are made in the image of Christ. The Word of God came through the man Jesus, but the image of that man was that of a humble servant, and a brother, lowly and meek, riding upon an ass. When I think of the man Jesus, the image that comes to my mind is that of the servant, not as a God. When I think on the words spoken by Jesus, I hear his voice, and it is spirit. And like the voice heard through the midst of the fire, the voice heard through Jesus bore only the similitude of a humble servant.

Chopper, I will leave it at this for now, and will continue to add onto it as time permits. I hope this helps clarify the foundation of the premiss. I look forward to your honest questions, may they shepherd my thoughts to offer any clarity.

I have often wondered in 1 Peter 2:1-12, how Christ was the stone the builders rejected, and that he was a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense. In what ways could we consider Jesus to be a stone of stumbling for us. I think I understand now.

Thank you my dear ezrider for making your position clear. When I read about the reason that Jehovah would not show Himself in any form, I realized, as you pointed out, that man would make some kind of image and then worship the image instead of the invisible God.

 

[for_his_glory]

The image of Christ that I worship is that light of God and his word come in the flesh (Jesus), John 1:1-5. Jesus was not just a mere man, but also that very Spirit of God come in the flesh and it is that Spirit of God that we worship and bow down to, John 4:24. Images made by hand become a form of adultery if we place them first before that of the risen Savior and I have never been in a Church that bows down to such images even though some Churches do. Jesus is literal as a man who walked the earth, but also Spiritual as being that very Spirit of the Godhead. Just as Gods word is literal and Spiritual so is Christ in whom we worship, not as a man, but as truly being the son of God who now sits at the right hand of the throne of God making intercession for us as we send our petitions (prayers) before him.

 

[ezrider]

Thank you my dear ezrider for making your position clear. When I read about the reason that Jehovah would not show Himself in any form, I realized, as you pointed out, that man would make some kind of image and then worship the image instead of the invisible God.

Now with that thought in mind Chopper, go and simply read Revelations 13. Don't try and over analyze it, don't try and figure out something that may not understand, just read it in it simplicity, and then wait on the Spirit of Christ to show you.

 

[ezrider]

The image of Christ that I worship is that light of God and his word come in the flesh (Jesus), John 1:1-5. Jesus was not just a mere man, but also that very Spirit of God come in the flesh and it is that Spirit of God that we worship and bow down to, John 4:24. Images made by hand become a form of adultery if we place them first before that of the risen Savior and I have never been in a Church that bows down to such images even though some Churches do. Jesus is literal as a man who walked the earth, but also Spiritual as being that very Spirit of the Godhead. Just as Gods word is literal and Spiritual so is Christ in whom we worship, not as a man, but as truly being the son of God who now sits at the right hand of the throne of God making intercession for us as we send our petitions (prayers) before him.

for_his_glory, I don't disagree with what you said here, but there is one thing I must point out. The image that I am speaking about is not an image made by hand, but more importantly, the image that we hold in our hearts and in our minds; the image that our spirit bows down to and worships.

Now if you don't mind, I would like you to consider the following thoughts in light of your statement "but as truly being the son of God who now sits at the right hand of the throne of God making intercession for us as we send our petitions (prayers) before him."
While there is no lie in that statement, it is true Christ makes intercession for us. But it would seem to me the only reason I should require an intercessor, is if the veil has not yet been rent for me. But If that veil has been rent for me, then the Spirit of Christ lives in me, and I have no more need of an intercessor, for through him we may enter in ourselves.

2 Corinthians 3:12-18 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded:for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit:and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

 

[for_his_glory]

for_his_glory, I don't disagree with what you said here, but there is one thing I must point out. The image that I am speaking about is not an image made by hand, but more importantly, the image that we hold in our hearts and in our minds; the image that our spirit bows down to and worships.

Now if you don't mind, I would like you to consider the following thoughts in light of your statement "but as truly being the son of God who now sits at the right hand of the throne of God making intercession for us as we send our petitions (prayers) before him."
While there is no lie in that statement, it is true Christ makes intercession for us. But it would seem to me the only reason I should require an intercessor, is if the veil has not yet been rent for me. But If that veil has been rent for me, then the Spirit of Christ lives in me, and I have no more need of an intercessor, for through him we may enter in ourselves.

2 Corinthians 3:12-18 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded:for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit:and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

This is why we need an intercessor to come before the Father. The veil in the Temple was used to hide the glory of Gods brightness when he made his presence known in the Temple as no one could look upon his brightness and live. The veil was rent from top to bottom for all as when Jesus gave up the ghost as he then became our high Priest that we now come before him in prayer as he makes intersession before the Father as again no one can come before the glory of God and live, thus we need an intercessor, which is Christ Jesus.

Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

 

[ezrider]

This is why we need an intercessor to come before the Father. The veil in the Temple was used to hide the glory of Gods brightness when he made his presence known in the Temple as no one could look upon his brightness and live. The veil was rent from top to bottom for all as when Jesus gave up the ghost as he then became our high Priest that we now come before him in prayer as he makes intersession before the Father as again no one can come before the glory of God and live, thus we need an intercessor, which is Christ Jesus.

Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

At what point do you no longer need an intercessor? When do expect to be able to approach the throne of God yourself?

 

[for_his_glory]

At what point do you no longer need an intercessor? When do expect to be able to approach the throne of God yourself?

When Christ returns for his Bride and we dwell with him in the New Jerusalem there will be no need to approach the throne of God as we then will be with the Lord forever.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

“How do I visualize something that is totally spiritual?

Jesus is not just a disembodied spirit. He has a flesh body.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I have often wondered in 1 Peter 2:1-12, how Christ was the stone the builders rejected, and that he was a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense. In what ways could we consider Jesus to be a stone of stumbling for us. I think I understand now.

When what he says conflicts with our own traditions and ideas, etc.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

While there is no lie in that statement, it is true Christ makes intercession for us. But it would seem to me the only reason I should require an intercessor, is if the veil has not yet been rent for me. But If that veil has been rent for me, then the Spirit of Christ lives in me, and I have no more need of an intercessor, for through him we may enter in ourselves.

You go behind the curtain vicariously, through Christ, to whom we have been joined.

His blood makes continual intercession for us through his Priestly work in the Holy of Holies in heaven.

 

[Deborah13]

for_his_glory, I don't disagree with what you said here, but there is one thing I must point out. The image that I am speaking about is not an image made by hand, but more importantly, the image that we hold in our hearts and in our minds; the image that our spirit bows down to and worships.

Now if you don't mind, I would like you to consider the following thoughts in light of your statement "but as truly being the son of God who now sits at the right hand of the throne of God making intercession for us as we send our petitions (prayers) before him."
While there is no lie in that statement, it is true Christ makes intercession for us. But it would seem to me the only reason I should require an intercessor, is if the veil has not yet been rent for me. But If that veil has been rent for me, then the Spirit of Christ lives in me, and I have no more need of an intercessor, for through him we may enter in ourselves.

2 Corinthians 3:12-18 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded:for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit:and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

KJV
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

I believe that the grace that we receive at the throne is only because of the works of Christ and His continuing mediation for us. The Father in His mercy provided our mediator, attorney to plead our case.

 

[ezrider]

When Christ returns for his Bride and we dwell with him in the New Jerusalem there will be no need to approach the throne of God as we then will be with the Lord forever.

Thank you for response. I have no doubts within me that you truly have a love for the Lord, and from reading some of your other posts, you are very well versed in the scriptures. Please do not take this personally in any way, this is not my intent. I am not here to question your faith or your walk before the Lord. I am only offering an opportunity for you and for others to question their own faith. Your reply was the perfect prototypical response, it's what we've been taught, and it's what we've come to believe. But it does demonstrates that you understand there is a point when when you no longer need an intercessor. There is only one problem I find with with your statement, and that is it lacks any sense of faith. When Christ returns sometime in the future as the Son of Man; there is no FAITH in that, you have become like Thomas, needing to see to believe; But a risen Jesus said blessed are they who have not seen, and yet believe. The response that you gave is one that only reveals itself through FAITH. You know the scriptures that say Christ dwells in our hearts, and that the kingdom of God is within us, that we are the temple of God, that we are Born Again after the spirit, and as Paul through the epistles declared to us the Mystery of God, which is Christ in Us. You know these scriptures, so why don't you believe them? Why do you await the return of the Son of Man, when the Spirit of Christ already dwells in you? Where is your Faith? The Spirit of Christ is being poured out into all the world, but you do not hear him because you are not listening, you are looking for the image of the Son of Man instead.

 

[Sinthesis]

You are thinking abstractly, which is good, even though some of your conclusions are suspect.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...you are looking for the image of the Son of Man instead.

"This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11 NASB)

"...Christ...having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him." (Hebrews 9:28 NASB)

"We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is." (1 John 3:2 NASB)

 

[ezrider]

The scripture is full of images: the image of the beast, the image of a humble servant, the image of the wheat and the tares, the image of the two Jerusalem's, the image of the good seed, and an image of the children of disobedience. The image of the death of Christ and the image of the resurrection of Christ. There is the resurrection to life, and there is a resurrection to death (John 5:29).

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

All of these images are instructive, but in the end they boil down to these two images, the image of the resurrection of Christ, or the image of the death of Christ. These are the images we hold in our hearts when we worship.

So lets look closer at the image of the death of Christ and of the resurrection to damnation/death. I will point out once again, that the image of the death of Christ is the image of a man. They worship the crucifixion, the image of a dying man, the last image of the humble servant. These are the children of disobedience, they have taken the image of a man and have made him their God. They have come to the knowledge of Christ, but not his Faith. They hold fast to the works he performed on the cross, and believe that their sins will be forgiven, but in the resurrection of death, they find themselves still subject to death. So while they wait for the return of their Lord in the image of the Son of Man, they set out to perfect themselves, so that the Lord will find them worthy when he comes, but instead they become obedient unto death. And because there just wasn’t enough things in the Bible to be declared as a sin, they create new sins for themselves daily (is it a sin to watch TV?, is it a sin if I listen to heavy metal?). Then when they fall short, they are faithful to confess their sins to Jesus so they can be made clean again by the blood of the Lamb, and they bear in themselves the image of the death of Christ, and thought they have been entered into the death of Christ, they have not yet embraced their own death through Christ. The scripture tells us that Christ died once for all, and that through his death, he hath put down sin and death (Rom 6:6, Rom 8:2) that we should no longer serve them. But serve them they do, and in their obedience, they bring again the sins of their dead works before the Lord, and in doing so, they crucify the Son of God afresh, and do put him to open shame.

Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and do put him to an open shame.

 

[ezrider]

"This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11 NASB)
"...Christ...having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him." (Hebrews 9:28 NASB)

"We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is." (1 John 3:2 NASB)

I don't know Jethro Bodine, I wasn't around at the time of Pentecost, were you? Did you see the manner in which he was taken up?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don't know Jethro Bodine, I wasn't around at the time of Pentecost, were you? Did you see the manner in which he was taken up?

Yes.

He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And then two dudes in white said he will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.