The Image of Christ

[Jethro Bodine]

It is not the blood that is making intercession for us. It is the victorious risen Lord, who sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us, through His victory.

Christ is both Priest and Sacrifice.

"23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing,24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them." (Hebrews 7:23-25)

The Priestly work and sacrifice of Jesus is always before the Father. It does not have to be repeated. It's always there for us, keeping us right with God. When we sin our appeal for forgiveness is based on the one-time sacrifice and finished ministry of Jesus always before the Lord in heaven.

 

[Deborah13]

No, I'm not saying that.

God knows why a Christian sins willfully. He knows what to do with the willfully sinning Christian, whether that be turning them over to a heavy hand of discipline, or eventually, turning them over altogether.

Let's look at the verse again.
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

despite = G1796 = From G1722 and G5195; to insult: - do despite unto.
G5195 = From G5196; to exercise violence, that is, abuse: - use despitefully, reproach, entreat shamefully (spitefully).

account = G2233 =
Middle voice of a (presumed) strengthened form of G71; to lead, that is, command (with official authority); figuratively to deem, that is, consider: - account, (be) chief, count, esteem, governor, judge, have the rule over, suppose, think.

So this means to think, suppose, or esteem the blood of Christ to be unholy, profane, unclean, common, and in doing so exercising violence, abuse against the Holy Spirit of Grace.

So what would common mean in reference to the shed blood of Christ, LESS than even the blood of bulls and goats for a Jew, for gentile LESS than their sacrifices to Pagan gods. UNHOLY = unable to redeem, unable to appease the wrath of God or gods.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Let's look at the verse again.
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

despite = G1796 = From G1722 and G5195; to insult: - do despite unto.
G5195 = From G5196; to exercise violence, that is, abuse: - use despitefully, reproach, entreat shamefully (spitefully).

account = G2233 =
Middle voice of a (presumed) strengthened form of G71; to lead, that is, command (with official authority); figuratively to deem, that is, consider: - account, (be) chief, count, esteem, governor, judge, have the rule over, suppose, think.

So this means to think, suppose, or esteem the blood of Christ to be unholy, profane, unclean, common, and in doing so exercising violence, abuse against the Holy Spirit of Grace.

So what would common mean in reference to the shed blood of Christ, LESS than even the blood of bulls and goats for a Jew, for gentile LESS than their sacrifices to Pagan gods. UNHOLY = unable to redeem, unable to appease the wrath of God or gods.

IOW, unbelief.

Unbelief reduces the blood of Christ to the common.

 

[ezrider]

The cross IS the grace of God that we trust in for our salvation.

The 'once and for all' of Christ's sacrifice means he does not have to make that sacrifice again and again and again for new sins committed. It stays before the Father continually, interceding on our behalf...as long as we continue to have faith in that sacrifice and make our appeal to it when we do sin.

It seems a lot of people think the 'once and for all' of Christ's sacrifice means it covers you one time forever no matter what you do from the moment of having that sacrifice applied. And that to suggest Christ's sacrifice doesn't mean that is to somehow lessen the sacrifice and to have inadequate faith in it. Not true at all. Weak and inadequate faith in Christ's sacrifice means to stop depending on it with surety and not making your appeal to it when you sin. In effect, treating it as if it is not the special and holy provision God has made to atone for the sins of man.

That may fit well with the wisdom of man, but I think the Lord might tell you that it is quite the contrary. The weak and inadequate in faith rely upon the sacrifice of Christ, and they depend on it when they appeal to it for their sins; But those who are strong in faith, and have received the Spirit of FAITH, have moved beyond the cross; understanding that they have both died and risen in Christ. And being dead to sin in the flesh by the crucifixion with Christ, they leave the cross behind them and the begin their new walk by the Spirit of Christ, trusting in the Grace of the Lord.

 

[agua.]

That may fit well with the wisdom of man, but I think the Lord might tell you that it is quite the contrary. The weak and inadequate in faith rely upon the sacrifice of Christ, and they depend on it when they appeal to it for their sins; But those who are strong in faith, and have received the Spirit of FAITH, have moved beyond the cross; understanding that they have both died and risen in Christ. And being dead to sin in the flesh by the crucifixion with Christ, they leave the cross behind them and the begin their new walk by the Spirit of Christ, trusting in the Grace of the Lord.

Ezirider do you remember and commemorate Jesus' death and the reasons for it ?

 

[Deborah13]

That may fit well with the wisdom of man, but I think the Lord might tell you that it is quite the contrary. The weak and inadequate in faith rely upon the sacrifice of Christ, and they depend on it when they appeal to it for their sins; But those who are strong in faith, and have received the Spirit of FAITH, have moved beyond the cross; understanding that they have both died and risen in Christ. And being dead to sin in the flesh by the crucifixion with Christ, they leave the cross behind them and the begin their new walk by the Spirit of Christ, trusting in the Grace of the Lord.

Does this have anything to do with what you are talking about.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

 

[ezrider]

Never imo

Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Luk 22:19-20 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. (20) Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Jesus told the Apostles to remember the Cross.The Cross represents the enormity of what Jesus did for us, and our worth to Him, and it doesn't hinder faith in the resurrection or God's grace. I'm not sure why you think it does Ezirider.

Jesus did not tell the apostles to remember the the Cross, he said to do this in remembrance of me. Which takes me back to the main topic of this thread: the image of Christ. If we stay at the cross, then we are worshiping death, or the image there of. But those that remember the image of the Son of Man, remember him as a humble servant, obedient even to the cross. A man who showed us the Grace of God, and spoke heavenly words filled with Spirit. This is the image of the Son of Man that I see. Truly a living soul, and a man in whom was no sin. This is the true Image of Christ. If he was a man without sin, then his life does not require the the sacrifice that his own blood provided. By Faith we are formed into the image of the living Christ.

 

[ezrider]

Does this have anything to do with what you are talking about.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Essentially, Yes.

 

[agua.]

Jesus did not tell the apostles to remember the the Cross, he said to do this in remembrance of me. Which takes me back to the main topic of this thread: the image of Christ. If we stay at the cross, then we are worshiping death, or the image there of. But those that remember the image of the Son of Man, remember him as a humble servant, obedient even to the cross. A man who showed us the Grace of God, and spoke heavenly words filled with Spirit. This is the image of the Son of Man that I see. Truly a living soul, and a man in whom was no sin. This is the true Image of Christ. If he was a man without sin, then his life does not require the the sacrifice that his own blood provided. By Faith we are formed into the image of the living Christ.

But Ezirider it's precisely the Cross that Jesus told the Apostles to remember. It was the Cross where His body/life was given and His Blood was shed. What do you suggest Jesus told them to remember ?

Luk 22:19-20 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. (20) Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

 

[ezrider]

Romans 6:1-11
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once:but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord

 

[Gary]

That may fit well with the wisdom of man, but I think the Lord might tell you that it is quite the contrary. The weak and inadequate in faith rely upon the sacrifice of Christ, and they depend on it when they appeal to it for their sins; But those who are strong in faith, and have received the Spirit of FAITH, have moved beyond the cross; understanding that they have both died and risen in Christ. And being dead to sin in the flesh by the crucifixion with Christ, they leave the cross behind them and the begin their new walk by the Spirit of Christ, trusting in the Grace of the Lord.

How is it possible to be strong in the faith and not rely on what Jesus did at the cross? If you put the cross behind you, what exactly do you have faith in?

 

[Gary]

2 Corinthians 11
1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly—and indeed you do bear with me.
2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

 

[agua.]

Hey Ezirider I think i get what you're trying to convey. We have a risen Lord who has saved us from the pit and we can walk in this graceful reality. I think it's important to remember though that Jesus wasn't shy in presenting His sacrifice and neither should we be.

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

As Gary noted above the Cross is inseparable from our faith.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The weak and inadequate in faith rely upon the sacrifice of Christ, and they depend on it when they appeal to it for their sins...

I'm with Gary on this one. The weak and inadequate in faith are the one's who DON'T rely on the sacrifice of Christ. By definition strong faith is the person who clings to the hope of the cross.

"But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." (Galatians 6:14NASB).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Maturity in Christ means very much being conscious of the cross. Crucifixion of the flesh should be a daily, minute by minute experience for the mature Christian. We're constantly putting the flesh on the cross so that the resurrection life can come forth from that death. The cross will always be a part of the Christian life. To think we can 'put it behind us' is to not understand what it means to die daily.

 

[ezrider]

How is it possible to be strong in the faith and not rely on what Jesus did at the cross? If you put the cross behind you, what exactly do you have faith in?

By GRACE through FAITH.

 

[Deborah13]

2 Corinthians 11
1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly—and indeed you do bear with me.
2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

From reading many of your posts I believe that you recognize the victory that the Lord's death and resurrection has given you in your own life and that your faith lays there.
Remember what Paul said about if the Lord has not risen then we cannot either? He was asking them to believe that. If we believe He has risen, there is the victory over death. We walk in a risen Lord who is alive and helps us daily to be what He created us to be for Him. He is not still on the cross.
We never should forget the suffering of our Lord and what that meant for us, Passover season is here. Many of us will be receiving the Lord's communion in our churches and our homes remembering the cross always.
Some of this conversation has sounded really weird to me, too. But I think I grasp what is being said and in part agree. But I think the scripture below is being taken somewhat out of context and yet not.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

I think what the author of Hebrews is saying is that they, the Apostles, keep having to reteach and reaffirm the foundations of our faith to these Christians who continue to need milk. [see the end of Chapter 5] He's saying he wants them to move on to maturity, he wants to give them the meat. Which I believe is teaching of the actual walking in that faith that we received from the Lord and His works.

Just my opinion, you can't take that to the bank unless it is found to be true in the scriptures. And I am sure you wouldn't ! So I can speak freely.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Put the cross behind us? Never.

"10 ...always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.11 For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.12 So death works in us, but life in you."" (2 Corinthians 4:10-12 NASB)

To die for Christ is to live for Christ. To live for Christ, is to die for Christ.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think what the author of Hebrews is saying is...he wants them to move on to maturity, he wants to give them the meat. Which I believe is teaching of the actual walking in that faith that we received from the Lord and His works.

The key of which Paul says in Romans is consciously reckoning yourself dead to sin. Sin having been crucified with Christ on the cross.

We don't forget about the cross. We remember, daily, that it is by the cross that we have died to sin and can, therefore, live to righteousness. That's what living by faith is all about: "I believe I'm dead to sin, I can live for God." And faith always remembers that.

 

[Sinthesis]

Jesus did not tell the apostles to remember the the Cross, he said to do this in remembrance of me. Which takes me back to the main topic of this thread: the image of Christ. If we stay at the cross, then we are worshiping death, or the image there of. But those that remember the image of the Son of Man, remember him as a humble servant, obedient even to the cross. A man who showed us the Grace of God, and spoke heavenly words filled with Spirit. This is the image of the Son of Man that I see. Truly a living soul, and a man in whom was no sin. This is the true Image of Christ. If he was a man without sin, then his life does not require the the sacrifice that his own blood provided. By Faith we are formed into the image of the living Christ.

Do you believe that Jesus is God?