The Image of Christ

[ezrider]

If you would indulge me, I would really like to hear your thoughts on the scripture from the book of Hebrews I posted earlier. What does the following scripture mean to you, and how does it touch your heart?

Hebrews 6:1-6
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[Deborah13]

Yes ezrider this is your thread and we have taken it off topic. I apologize. :blush

 

[for_his_glory]

If you would indulge me, I would really like to hear your thoughts on the scripture from the book of Hebrews I posted earlier. What does the following scripture mean to you, and how does it touch your heart?

Hebrews 6:1-6
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Not sure who you are asking, but this is talking about growing in faith and trust in the Lord as our knowledge and understanding is increased by the Holy Spirit teaching us all truths and also bringing those truths back to our remembrance when we need them. Like is says in the chapter before, we go from milk to the meat of Gods word, which becomes fullness of our learning, but will never be able to exhaust His word.

 

[ezrider]

Not sure who you are asking, but this is talking about growing in faith and trust in the Lord as our knowledge and understanding is increased by the Holy Spirit teaching us all truths and also bringing those truths back to our remembrance when we need them. Like is says in the chapter before, we go from milk to the meat of Gods word, which becomes fullness of our learning, but will never be able to exhaust His word.

I was asking anyone who would choose to participate. But the part I am most interested in, is yours, and anybody else who would share their thoughts, what you think of the putting Christ to open shame, as they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh?

 

[ezrider]

Yes ezrider this is your thread and we have taken it off topic. I apologize. :blush

There is no need to apologize Deborah13, I was encouraged that the discussion was starting to develop on its own, and I do find that the discussion of New Jerusalem fits in with the topic of my thread, for in New Jerusalem, we are the image of the resurrection of Christ. For we are the living stones built up into a spiritual house. I would just like to hear more of every bodies thought concerning Hebrews 6:6 so as to focus our thoughts were it touches Christ. But thank you for the reminder.

 

[for_his_glory]

I was asking anyone who would choose to participate. But the part I am most interested in, is yours, and anybody else who would share their thoughts, what you think of the putting Christ to open shame, as they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh?

was it public shame Jesus felt or was it love that through His suffering he cried out it is finished, Father forgive them for they know not what they do. Even to this time many still crucify Christ by rejecting him as the true Messiah. The image of Christ being that of an opened display of a lamb being led to a slaughtered will always remain in my mind of that which Christ suffered for the love he has for me. The cross leads us to Christ for the reconciliation of our sin by the free gift of Gods grace and that on the other side of the cross we now can have life eternal with the Father by that Spiritual renewal of John 3:3-7.

 

[SeekHisFace]

If you would indulge me, I would really like to hear your thoughts on the scripture from the book of Hebrews I posted earlier. What does the following scripture mean to you, and how does it touch your heart?

Hebrews 6:1-6
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Not sure if this is where you would like this to go...but hopefully 2 Peter 2 might be what you would like to discuss (?):
They love the wages of unrighteousness--these are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest to whom darkness is reserved forever. For when they speak great swelling words of vanity they allure through the lusts of the flesh. Those that were clean escaped from them who live in error, ---for whom a man is overcome of the same is he brought into bondage.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Blessings...

 

[ezrider]

SeekHisFace, for_his_glory, I guess we haven't gotten quite where I was going, or I wasn't clear enough in defining the answers I was looking for.

When I look at Hebrews 6:5-6, I see the picture of someone who has come to the knowledge of Christ, and has tasted of the heavenly gift, and was made a partaker with the Holy Ghost. If that individual should then return again to repentance, and ask him to forgive him of his sins again, then in doing so according to the scripture, you have crucified the Son of God once again in your hearts, and do put him to open shame.

Rom 6:9-11 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once:but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So as we see in the above scripture, Christ can die no more, and in that he died, he died unto sin once; But once we have come to the knowledge of the truth, then there remains no more sacrifice for sin. (Hebrews 12:26)

If you have come to the knowledge of truth, and you continue to repentant and confess your sins and ask to be washed in the blood of the lamb, then you are putting your savior to open shame, seeing that you crucify him to yourself again; And their remains no more sacrifice for sin.

I am interested in your thoughts concerning how we might put Christ to open shame by repenting of new sins at the cross.

 

[Deborah13]

SeekHisFace, for_his_glory, I guess we haven't gotten quite where I was going, or I wasn't clear enough in defining the answers I was looking for.

When I look at Hebrews 6:5-6, I see the picture of someone who has come to the knowledge of Christ, and has tasted of the heavenly gift, and was made a partaker with the Holy Ghost. If that individual should then return again to repentance, and ask him to forgive him of his sins again, then in doing so according to the scripture, you have crucified the Son of God once again in your hearts, and do put him to open shame.

Rom 6:9-11 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once:but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So as we see in the above scripture, Christ can die no more, and in that he died, he died unto sin once; But once we have come to the knowledge of the truth, then there remains no more sacrifice for sin. (Hebrews 12:26)

If you have come to the knowledge of truth, and you continue to repentant and confess your sins and ask to be washed in the blood of the lamb, then you are putting your savior to open shame, seeing that you crucify him to yourself again; And their remains no more sacrifice for sin.

I am interested in your thoughts concerning how we might put Christ to open shame by repenting of new sins at the cross.

Please give your description of repentance.

 

[ezrider]

Please give your description of repentance.

For the sake of my discussion here, the repentance might look like:
Forgive me Lord, and thank you for your grace, and glory be to the Lord for the gift of the holy spirit. Lord, you know how hard I try to remain humble and obedient to your commandments, and you know how much I love you and praise you for the sacrifice that you made in my behalf. But Lord, please forgive me, I have committed a sin...... Please wash my sins in the blood of the Lamb, who takes away the sins of the world, and restore unto me a right spirit within me. Thank you Lord, in Jesus name. Amen.

 

[ezrider]

When are we free to leave behind the cross of Christ, so that we may begin trusting in the Grace of the Lord through our Faith in Christ Jesus?

 

[agua.]

I guess we haven't gotten quite where I was going, or I wasn't clear enough in defining the answers I was looking for.

When I look at Hebrews 6:5-6, I see the picture of someone who has come to the knowledge of Christ, and has tasted of the heavenly gift, and was made a partaker with the Holy Ghost. If that individual should then return again to repentance, and ask him to forgive him of his sins again, then in doing so according to the scripture, you have crucified the Son of God once again in your hearts, and do put him to open shame.

Hebrews 6:5-6 seems to be talking about people who leave the faith and not individual events of repentance. When a person becomes born again they repent of the lifestyle of sin and accept Jesus as Lord and become recipients of everything that was bought because of the Cross. It seems turning back on this may represent the dilemma of re-crucifixion.

Rom 6:9-11 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once:but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So as we see in the above scripture, Christ can die no more, and in that he died, he died unto sin once; But once we have come to the knowledge of the truth, then there remains no more sacrifice for sin. (Hebrews 12:26)

Jesus died for all sin past, present, and future and you're correct that this sacrifice was a one time event. Our Lord bought us forgiveness for all sin but this doesn't negate the need for confession and repentance. Hebrews 10:26 ( typo ) seems to refer to a return to the state of life before repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord and sinning "willfully" indicates the lifestyle of sin and unbelief we lived prior to rebirth and seems similar to the fate of those who "fall away " in Hebrews 6:5-6. Jesus sacrifice will not cover the sins of the unbeliever.

Heb 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If you have come to the knowledge of truth, and you continue to repentant and confess your sins and ask to be washed in the blood of the lamb, then you are putting your savior to open shame, seeing that you crucify him to yourself again; And their remains no more sacrifice for sin.

I am interested in your thoughts concerning how we might put Christ to open shame by repenting of new sins at the cross.

Ezirider this seems an unusual interpretation of Hebrews 6:5-6 and Hebrews 10:26-27 especially in light of how we're told to confess and repent in other passages.

1Jn_1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Jas_5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

A Christian becomes aware of their sin ( mostly ) and is instructed to repent of them as they arise. I'm not sure why you think confession and repentance of sin is a bad thing can you explain ? Also what do you suggest "fall away" implies in Hebrews 6 ?

Thanks mate.

 

[agua.]

When are we free to leave behind the cross of Christ, so that we may begin trusting in the Grace of the Lord through our Faith in Christ Jesus?

Never imo

Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Luk 22:19-20 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. (20) Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Jesus told the Apostles to remember the Cross.The Cross represents the enormity of what Jesus did for us, and our worth to Him, and it doesn't hinder faith in the resurrection or God's grace. I'm not sure why you think it does Ezirider.

 

[for_his_glory]

SeekHisFace, for_his_glory, I guess we haven't gotten quite where I was going, or I wasn't clear enough in defining the answers I was looking for.

When I look at Hebrews 6:5-6, I see the picture of someone who has come to the knowledge of Christ, and has tasted of the heavenly gift, and was made a partaker with the Holy Ghost. If that individual should then return again to repentance, and ask him to forgive him of his sins again, then in doing so according to the scripture, you have crucified the Son of God once again in your hearts, and do put him to open shame.

Rom 6:9-11 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once:but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So as we see in the above scripture, Christ can die no more, and in that he died, he died unto sin once; But once we have come to the knowledge of the truth, then there remains no more sacrifice for sin. (Hebrews 12:26)

If you have come to the knowledge of truth, and you continue to repentant and confess your sins and ask to be washed in the blood of the lamb, then you are putting your savior to open shame, seeing that you crucify him to yourself again; And their remains no more sacrifice for sin.

I am interested in your thoughts concerning how we might put Christ to open shame by repenting of new sins at the cross.

First it's Hebrews 10:26
Heb_10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

All our sins, past, present and future have been forgiven when Jesus took them upon himself on the cross. There is no more sacrifice for sin as it is finished. What others deem to be sin is sometimes not what God calls a sin as in mans do and do not philosophy list. We are commanded to love God and love everyone. I might love someone, but yet not like them for their actions although I love them and pray for them to change their evil ways. If we sin wilfully that sin has already been forgiven, but here on earth we will pay the price for whatever that sin brings about in our own life. As we are now in Christ we strive for maturity in his word, which is what Hebrews Chapter 6 is all about. We know the ten commandments thou shall not kill, steal etc. etc. and those commandments we do live by. It's what we speak that causes sin to well up in us for then we will speak out of the abundance of our heart at that time as we allow our emotions (flesh) to take over that of the Holy Spirit that dwells in us. This is why we need to be slow to speak and slow to anger.

Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

 

[Deborah13]

G2839 - profane: - common, defiled, unclean, unholy.

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

If I take Hebrew 10:26-27 only, I believe I am missing the context of those verses.
If I were to believe that the blood of the Son of God were 'common, unholy, profane', I would believe that that blood is not sufficient to cover my sin. Therefore, not believing the Spirit of grace.

This would be falling from grace.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If I were to believe that the blood of the Son of God were 'common, unholy, profane', I would believe that that blood is not sufficient to cover my sin. Therefore, not believing the Spirit of grace.

This would be falling from grace.

I see it more as a knowing the blood is not common or profane but treating it that way anyway. IOW, having a contempt for the blood of Christ and assigning it's value to nothing more than the common.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

When are we free to leave behind the cross of Christ, so that we may begin trusting in the Grace of the Lord through our Faith in Christ Jesus?

The cross IS the grace of God that we trust in for our salvation.

The 'once and for all' of Christ's sacrifice means he does not have to make that sacrifice again and again and again for new sins committed. It stays before the Father continually, interceding on our behalf...as long as we continue to have faith in that sacrifice and make our appeal to it when we do sin.

It seems a lot of people think the 'once and for all' of Christ's sacrifice means it covers you one time forever no matter what you do from the moment of having that sacrifice applied. And that to suggest Christ's sacrifice doesn't mean that is to somehow lessen the sacrifice and to have inadequate faith in it. Not true at all. Weak and inadequate faith in Christ's sacrifice means to stop depending on it with surety and not making your appeal to it when you sin. In effect, treating it as if it is not the special and holy provision God has made to atone for the sins of man.

 

[Deborah13]

I see it more as a knowing the blood is not common or profane but treating it that way anyway. IOW, having a contempt for the blood of Christ and assigning it's value to nothing more than the common.

Explain.
Agree that there was a full knowledge of the holiness of the blood of Christ. But then a rejection of that acknowledge.
Are you saying that there a true Christians that have Not willingly sinned since they have been born again?

 

[Deborah13]

The cross IS the grace of God that we trust in for our salvation.

The 'once and for all' of Christ's sacrifice means he does not have to make that sacrifice again and again and again for new sins committed. It stays before the Father continually, interceding on our behalf...as long as we continue to have faith in that sacrifice and make our appeal to it when we do sin.

It seems a lot of people think the 'once and for all' of Christ's sacrifice means it covers you one time forever no matter what you do from the moment of having that sacrifice applied. And that to suggest Christ's sacrifice doesn't mean that is to somehow lessen the sacrifice and to have inadequate faith in it. Not true at all. Weak and inadequate faith in Christ's sacrifice means to stop depending on it with surety and not making your appeal to it when you sin. In effect, treating it as if it is not the special and holy provision God has made to atone for the sins of man.

imo
Jesus was sacrificed one time, His blood was spilled on the ground one time, then He was raised in VICTORY. This is what we as Christians, stand in, the victory.

He is no longer hanging on the cross, His blood is not still be spilled on the ground. When He said "It is Finished" He meant it.
It is not the blood that is making intercession for us. It is the victorious risen Lord, who sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us, through His victory.

Where was Jesus' blood applied, if not to the mercy seat in heaven?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Are you saying that there a true Christians that have Not willingly sinned since they have been born again?

No, I'm not saying that.

God knows why a Christian sins willfully. He knows what to do with the willfully sinning Christian, whether that be turning them over to a heavy hand of discipline, or eventually, turning them over altogether.