The Incarnation, A Sperm or a complete Fetus of Jesus.

[OzSpen]

OzSpen's post was directed to me, not you Chopper.

Thank you, jocor, for affirming this. I did not direct my comments about Jesus being 100% human to chopper.

 

[OzSpen]

1Peter 1:23 "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."
Not of corruptible seed, or human seed.

1Peter 1:18 "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers."
1Peter 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."

This is referring to corruptible human beings who are born again through their response to Jesus Christ.

It is not talking about the human vs the divine natures of Christ.

 

[OzSpen]

I have never said that Jesus the Christ was 100% human. I have always referred to Him as the God/Man. When I say He is Jesus (human name) the Christ (Divine name) that is what I mean. Please be careful what you say, I say. I do not go by man's interpretation with words like Nestorianism.

Jesus the Christ was God incarnate. Do you know what that means?

In my Arndt & Gingrich Greek lexicon, the meaning given for Christos is 'the Anointed One, the Messiah, the Christ' (1957:895). It does not give Christ as meaning the Divine name.

You say you don't go by man's interpretation with, say, Nestorianism. However, you do seem to be giving me Chopperism - man's interpretation.

So that I understand your view on the person of Christ, how do you understand the theology of his divine nature and human nature?

Oz

 

[Chopper]

I am done with this thread. I have clearly presented my "Chopperism". There is, from my point of view, nothing I can add. Friday, this thread will be closed, if not before. I must say that it has been interesting, if not challenging. Good by for now.

 

[Chopper]

Before I leave this thread, I feel I must post a final warning. I have been extremely troubled in my Spirit with some of the posts that are here in this thread. So this Biblical warning is for those who are guilty, and not for those who are not guilty. I do not point at anyone, that is the job of the Holy Spirit, not mine. Again, if this is not for you, then disregard the warning. If the Holy Spirit convicts you, seek His wisdom and repent.

1John 2:22 "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."
1John 2:23 "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."
And;
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Heavenly Father, if your Word of warning applies to anyone who is guilty of any of Your Scriptures, convict them I pray. If these verses do not apply to anyone in this thread, please don't let them take offense but be glad that they are in the way of Your Truth. Amen, and amen.

 

[jocor]

Before I leave this thread, I feel I must post a final warning. I have been extremely troubled in my Spirit with some of the posts that are here in this thread. So this Biblical warning is for those who are guilty, and not for those who are not guilty. I do not point at anyone, that is the job of the Holy Spirit, not mine. Again, if this is not for you, then disregard the warning. If the Holy Spirit convicts you, seek His wisdom and repent.

1John 2:22 "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."
1John 2:23 "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."
And;
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Heavenly Father, if your Word of warning applies to anyone who is guilty of any of Your Scriptures, convict them I pray. If these verses do not apply to anyone in this thread, please don't let them take offense but be glad that they are in the way of Your Truth. Amen, and amen.

I know of no one on this thread that has denied the Son or that he is the Messiah or that he came in the flesh. I was your main opponent on this thread and I don't deny any of those things. Interestingly, though, you do not believe the Son came only in the flesh, but also in divinity (at least his blood). So you yourself are at risk of denying he came in the flesh, by stating he came in more than just the flesh.

One of the basic beliefs of Christianity is that the Son was 100% God and 100% man. If he did not have man's blood, but divine blood, then he wasn't 100% man.

 

[OzSpen]

I know of no one on this thread that has denied the Son or that he is the Messiah or that he came in the flesh. I was your main opponent on this thread and I don't deny any of those things. Interestingly, though, you do not believe the Son came only in the flesh, but also in divinity (at least his blood). So you yourself are at risk of denying he came in the flesh, by stating he came in more than just the flesh.

One of the basic beliefs of Christianity is that the Son was 100% God and 100% man. If he did not have man's blood, but divine blood, then he wasn't 100% man.

jocor,

Do you accept the orthodox Christology as summarised in the Creed of Chalcedon?

The Creed of Chalcedon (A.D. 451)
We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable (rational) soul and body; consubstantial (coessential) with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather of the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God, the Word the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning (have declared) concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.​

In Christ,
Oz

 

[jocor]

jocor,

Do you accept the orthodox Christology as summarised in the Creed of Chalcedon?

The Creed of Chalcedon (A.D. 451)
We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable (rational) soul and body; consubstantial (coessential) with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather of the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God, the Word the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning (have declared) concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.​

In Christ,
Oz

Absolutely not. However, I am not permitted to discuss it openly since my beliefs are against the SoF and Tos. If you wish to discuss it, we will need to do it privately.

 

[OzSpen]

Absolutely not. However, I am not permitted to discuss it openly since my beliefs are against the SoF and Tos. If you wish to discuss it, we will need to do it privately.

jocor,

I have no need to discuss further as I've thrashed this out with pastors, Bible college and seminary professors over the years and have concluded with a position aligned with orthodox Christology that is in line with the Chalcedon Creed.

Oz

 

[jocor]

Pastors, Bible college and seminary professors are all coming from a Christian position of some sort. I do not. I was kicked out of Christianity for keeping the Sabbath when I was just a babe in Messiah and have not been indoctrinated into the creeds of men. I come from a strictly Scriptural understanding.

 

[OzSpen]

Pastors, Bible college and seminary professors are all coming from a Christian position of some sort. I do not. I was kicked out of Christianity for keeping the Sabbath when I was just a babe in Messiah and have not been indoctrinated into the creeds of men. I come from a strictly Scriptural understanding.

jocor,

If you came from 'a strictly Scriptural understanding', you would know from Scripture that God has placed teachers in the church. Take a read of such teaching in Eph 4:11-13 (ESV) where it is affirmed that the Christ gave the gifts of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers to equip the saints and edify the body of Christ. 1 Cor 12:29 ESV also affirms the gift of teaching.

And have a guess what? Some of those gifted evangelists and teachers also function in Bible colleges and seminaries in a role that is consistent with their gifting - and many times associated with a church or group of teachers (denomination).

You say that you come from 'a strictly Scriptural understanding', then how is it that you cannot discuss your unscriptural views openly on this forum? Could there be a tad of self-defeating hypocrisy in what you are wanting to promote?

Oz

​

 

[jocor]

jocor,

If you came from 'a strictly Scriptural understanding', you would know from Scripture that God has placed teachers in the church. Take a read of such teaching in Eph 4:11-13 (ESV) where it is affirmed that the Christ gave the gifts of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers to equip the saints and edify the body of Christ. 1 Cor 12:29 ESV also affirms the gift of teaching.

And have a guess what? Some of those gifted evangelists and teachers also function in Bible colleges and seminaries in a role that is consistent with their gifting - and many times associated with a church or group of teachers (denomination).

If they are such gifted, God-given teachers, why do you go against their teachings? In the Apostles day we had true doctrines taught by true teachers, but as Paul said, after his departure grievous wolves would enter in. False teachings now abound in churches.

You say that you come from 'a strictly Scriptural understanding', then how is it that you cannot discuss your unscriptural views openly on this forum? Could there be a tad of self-defeating hypocrisy in what you are wanting to promote?

Oz

​

I would gladly discuss them openly. The moderators and forum rules forbid me to. If I break the rules, I get suspended or expelled from the forum. Nothing is permitted to be taught against the SoF or ToS.

 

[reba]

OzSpen's post was directed to me, not you Chopper.

Thank you, jocor, for affirming this. I did not direct my comments about Jesus being 100% human to chopper.

If members wish posting to be responded by a select few then post using PMs. Common sense tells us posting to an open forum allows for all members to reply.

ADMIN

 

[reba]

This thread is off topic, and now closed..