The Incarnation, A Sperm or a complete Fetus of Jesus.

[OzSpen]

I totally agree that Yeshua was not a spirit, but was 100% human. However, I do not believe that growing, strength, tiredness, thirst, hunger, becoming physically weak and needing ministry are the result of the fall of man. That is why Yahweh provided food, water, the Sabbath rest and fellowship prior to sin. Adam would have experienced all those things before he sinned. As for death, Adam died after sin entered. The only reason Yeshua died was because he took upon himself the sins of the world and became sin for us. At that point, the life in his blood could no longer sustain him.

While you are concerned that my view may diminish the humanity of Yeshua, I believe it is exalting his pre-Adamic humanity until he took sin upon himself.

So, is your view of the person and nature of Christ in any way aligned with Nestorianism, diagrammed as:

Wikimedia Commons (Nestorianism)​

I am concerned with your emphasis on 'Yeshua was not a spirit, but was 100% human'. That is not Christology as affirmed at Chalcedon.

 

[Chopper]

You provided no biblical evidence to support your view. Where do Scriptures state that 'Jesus had incorruptible blood in his veins'?

Do you believe Jesus was fully human or not?

Lets say that Jesus was fully man as well as fully God. He had the Blood sent from God thru the Holy Spirit to Mary's womb, that made Him God with the nature of God. He had a human body, thanks for and by the process of Mary's contribution to to Jesus. God's nature and Blood, and Mary's human body.

I'm sorry for the typo. Not uncorruption but incorruption....Psalm 16:10 "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

1Peter 1:23 "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."
Not of corruptible seed, or human seed.

1Peter 1:18 "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers."
1Peter 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."

In order for you to understand my theology on the God/Man Jesus (human name) the Christ (Divine Name) I take you to Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." My theology on the incorruptible Blood of Jesus the Christ is found right here. You ask me where did God get the Blood? That is for God to explain some day. Right now no one knows.As I have posted before, Life is in the Blood. Life is obtained in no other place than the Blood. The Blood of God, gave life to Adam, and the second Adam, Jesus the Christ got His Divine life from the Blood of God when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary at the conception of Jesus. That's it guys!

 

[Chopper]

So, is your view of the person and nature of Christ in any way aligned with Nestorianism, diagrammed as:

Wikimedia Commons (Nestorianism)​

I am concerned with your emphasis on 'Yeshua was not a spirit, but was 100% human'. That is not Christology as affirmed at Chalcedon.

I have never said that Jesus the Christ was 100% human. I have always referred to Him as the God/Man. When I say He is Jesus (human name) the Christ (Divine name) that is what I mean. Please be careful what you say, I say. I do not go by man's interpretation with words like Nestorianism.

Jesus the Christ was God incarnate. Do you know what that means?

 

[jocor]

So, is your view of the person and nature of Christ in any way aligned with Nestorianism, diagrammed as:

Wikimedia Commons (Nestorianism)​

I am concerned with your emphasis on 'Yeshua was not a spirit, but was 100% human'. That is not Christology as affirmed at Chalcedon.

I do not believe or live by the creeds of men. My beliefs are based on what I see or don't see in Scripture. My comment concerning Yeshua being 100% man as opposed to a spirit was in response to your reference to Luke 24:39. Is that not what the verse teaches?

 

[Chopper]

Is my post #68 unacceptable?

Jason, your post is speaking of consuming the blood of animals. It was forbidden for Israel, and strangers in Israel. The blood of animals was acceptably for sprinkling on the altar for a temporary remission of sins. The permanent remission had to come from Jesus the Christ, because His Blood was perfect Divine Blood.

 

[jocor]

I have never said that Jesus the Christ was 100% human. I have always referred to Him as the God/Man. When I say He is Jesus (human name) the Christ (Divine name) that is what I mean. Please be careful what you say, I say. I do not go by man's interpretation with words like Nestorianism.

Jesus the Christ was God incarnate. Do you know what that means?

OzSpen's post was directed to me, not you Chopper.

 

[jocor]

Jason, your post is speaking of consuming the blood of animals. It was forbidden for Israel, and strangers in Israel. The blood of animals was acceptably for sprinkling on the altar for a temporary remission of sins. The permanent remission had to come from Jesus the Christ, because His Blood was perfect Divine Blood.

I'm jocor, not Jason. I agree with your post except for the "Divine Blood" part.

 

[Chopper]

OzSpen's post was directed to me, not you Chopper.

I am totally sorry Jason. I was not aware of that when I posted. Too many avatar's the same.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Mary's egg was used - That is why he is the "Son of Man"
The fertilizing part is the divine - "Son of God"

 

[Deborah13]

Lets say that Jesus was fully man as well as fully God. He had the Blood sent from God thru the Holy Spirit to Mary's womb, that made Him God with the nature of God. He had a human body, thanks for and by the process of Mary's contribution to to Jesus. God's nature and Blood, and Mary's human body.

I'm sorry for the typo. Not uncorruption but incorruption....Psalm 16:10 "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

1Peter 1:23 "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."
Not of corruptible seed, or human seed.

1Peter 1:18 "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers."
1Peter 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."

In order for you to understand my theology on the God/Man Jesus (human name) the Christ (Divine Name) I take you to Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." My theology on the incorruptible Blood of Jesus the Christ is found right here. You ask me where did God get the Blood? That is for God to explain some day. Right now no one knows.As I have posted before, Life is in the Blood. Life is obtained in no other place than the Blood. The Blood of God, gave life to Adam, and the second Adam, Jesus the Christ got His Divine life from the Blood of God when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary at the conception of Jesus. That's it guys!

This is part of what you said in your first post, which is the truth and has been scientifically proven, as you quoted Dr Hann in the other thread.

You said "It is a scientific fact that the Blood of an infant is generated in the fetus itself, and the mother contributes nothing for the generation of blood in an infant."
Why then do you say the father gives blood to the fetus? This is a contradiction.
Either the father gives blood or the fetus (cells of the growing fetus) generate their own blood. It can't be both.
The fact is that a human sperm cell, by itself, cannot produce blood. Neither can an egg cell, by itself, produce blood. The fetus produces it's own blood just like you have posted twice.

Jesus' father, God the Father, was not human. Therefore, Jesus did not inherit the original sin and sin nature that began with Adam and he passed on to all his children. Each generation the father passes this on to all his children. The original sin and sin nature is not passed on by the mother. Sin did not come into the world thru Eve but through Adam.

All mankind, except for Jesus, have one common father and that is Adam. By the scripture in Hebrews we can see this concept, that we were all in Adam's loins from the beginning. So when Adam sinned effectually we did too. "For all have sinned and fall short".
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Levi had not been born yet but God said he paid tithes to Melchisedec because he was in the loins of Abraham.
So when Adam sinned the effects of that came down to ALL mankind. Except Jesus because He was not in Adam's loins. He is the Father's only begot Son.
A mother is never referred to as having loins.

 

[Chopper]

I'm jocor, not Jason. I agree with your post except for the "Divine Blood" part.

I'm sorry, I have you mixed up with jasonc. This has not been a good morning for me. All my physical thorn's are pricking me today. Again, I apologize.

 

[Chopper]

Mary's egg was used - That is why he is the "Son of Man"
The fertilizing part is the divine - "Son of God"

Welcome my new friend. You are absolutely right! I wish others could understand what you posted. Simple and to the point. Bravo!!

Reba and I hold the Bible studies on Matthew in the "Bible Study" forum. You have my personal invitation to join us. We are in Matthew 3:7,8 today and tomorrow is Mt. 3:9,10. Don't worry about coming in a little late. It makes no difference.

 

[Deborah13]

I totally agree that Yeshua was not a spirit, but was 100% human. However, I do not believe that growing, strength, tiredness, thirst, hunger, becoming physically weak and needing ministry are the result of the fall of man. That is why Yahweh provided food, water, the Sabbath rest and fellowship prior to sin. Adam would have experienced all those things before he sinned. As for death, Adam died after sin entered. The only reason Yeshua died was because he took upon himself the sins of the world and became sin for us. At that point, the life in his blood could no longer sustain him.

While you are concerned that my view may diminish the humanity of Yeshua, I believe it is exalting his pre-Adamic humanity until he took sin upon himself.

If I understand you correctly, I agree with you.

LovethroughDove
"Mary's egg was used - That is why he is the "Son of Man"
The fertilizing part is the divine - "Son of God"
The Incarnation, A Sperm or a complete Fetus of Jesus.

I believe you are correct.

 

[Deborah13]

Welcome my new friend. You are absolutely right! I wish others could understand what you posted. Simple and to the point. Bravo!!

Reba and I hold the Bible studies on Matthew in the "Bible Study" forum. You have my personal invitation to join us. We are in Matthew 3:7,8 today and tomorrow is Mt. 3:9,10. Don't worry about coming in a little late. It makes no difference.

Mary's egg was used - That is why he is the "Son of Man"
The fertilizing part is the divine - "Son of God"

So maybe I agreed with you too soon. What do you mean by fertilized?
I believe Mary's egg was given life by the Father and so Mary conceived.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Very simple. Just as I stated. Human egg was divinely turning into Jesus as we know him. Not by a human sperm

 

[Deborah13]

Very simple. Just as I stated. Human egg was divinely turning into Jesus as we know him. Not by a human sperm

Ok, I would not have thought to describe it that way but I like it.

 

[LovethroughDove]

 

[Chopper]

This is part of what you said in your first post, which is the truth and has been scientifically proven, as you quoted Dr Hann in the other thread.

You said "It is a scientific fact that the Blood of an infant is generated in the fetus itself, and the mother contributes nothing for the generation of blood in an infant."
Why then do you say the father gives blood to the fetus? This is a contradiction.
Either the father gives blood or the fetus (cells of the growing fetus) generate their own blood. It can't be both.
The fact is that a human sperm cell, by itself, cannot produce blood. Neither can an egg cell, by itself, produce blood. The fetus produces it's own blood just like you have posted twice.

Jesus' father, God the Father, was not human. Therefore, Jesus did not inherit the original sin and sin nature that began with Adam and he passed on to all his children. Each generation the father passes this on to all his children. The original sin and sin nature is not passed on by the mother. Sin did not come into the world thru Eve but through Adam.

All mankind, except for Jesus, have one common father and that is Adam. By the scripture in Hebrews we can see this concept, that we were all in Adam's loins from the beginning. So when Adam sinned effectually we did too. "For all have sinned and fall short".
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Levi had not been born yet but God said he paid tithes to Melchisedec because he was in the loins of Abraham.
So when Adam sinned the effects of that came down to ALL mankind. Except Jesus because He was not in Adam's loins. He is the Father's only begot Son.
A mother is never referred to as having loins.

I agree with most of what you have posted. The natural process of child birth, I perfectly understand. What I want you to realize and everyone else to understand is the miracle of Jesus' birth was just that, A MIRACLE. To explain simply what a miracle is, it is when God interrupts the normal nature of things or events. This sinful world that Adam presented to us thru the "fall" introduced a fallen nature of everything. In order for God to step in and alter what He said would happen as the result of Adam's sin, goes against what God stated what would happen. Once in a while God does go against what He predicted would happen and that is called a miracle. He alters the way something would normally work, and causes that "something" to work differently.

The birth of Jesus the Christ was not a normal conception, not a normal fetus, not normal blood. The only thing that was normal is how Mary nourished her baby, which was the only human part of Jesus. The rest came from Heaven's realm supernaturally. Not normal, supernaturally. It was a miracle. There is no way that a doctor, scientist, theologian, anyone that can explain how Jesus the Christ came into existence, no one! I can only scratch the surface in saying that Jesus was GOD IN THE FLESH! Can you explain that? I can't, and anyone else will say, "It's a miracle." You can't explain a miracle.

I'm extremely tired of going over the same line of questioning from you and the others. I feel that I have explained my position as clear as I could. If that's not good enough, well it's all you're going to get. I'm not singling you out Deb. so please don't think I'm unloading on just you, because I'm not. My frustration is with all who can't understand where I'm coming from.

 

[Deborah13]

I agree with most of what you have posted. The natural process of child birth, I perfectly understand. What I want you to realize and everyone else to understand is the miracle of Jesus' birth was just that, A MIRACLE. To explain simply what a miracle is, it is when God interrupts the normal nature of things or events. This sinful world that Adam presented to us thru the "fall" introduced a fallen nature of everything. In order for God to step in and alter what He said would happen as the result of Adam's sin, goes against what God stated what would happen. Once in a while God does go against what He predicted would happen and that is called a miracle. He alters the way something would normally work, and causes that "something" to work differently.

The birth of Jesus the Christ was not a normal conception, not a normal fetus, not normal blood. The only thing that was normal is how Mary nourished her baby, which was the only human part of Jesus. The rest came from Heaven's realm supernaturally. Not normal, supernaturally. It was a miracle. There is no way that a doctor, scientist, theologian, anyone that can explain how Jesus the Christ came into existence, no one! I can only scratch the surface in saying that Jesus was GOD IN THE FLESH! Can you explain that? I can't, and anyone else will say, "It's a miracle." You can't explain a miracle.

I'm extremely tired of going over the same line of questioning from you and the others. I feel that I have explained my position as clear as I could. If that's not good enough, well it's all you're going to get. I'm not singling you out Deb. so please don't think I'm unloading on just you, because I'm not. My frustration is with all who can't understand where I'm coming from.

Frustration is many times the outcome of a debate for everyone concerned.

Jesus' birth cannot be explained by science. It truly was a miracle and no one has said anything different than that.
Through the scripture my only explanation would be.....
God ordained it, He purposed it, He determined it, from before the foundation of the world and it was so.
On my part anything else would be merely speculation.

 

[Chopper]

Frustration is many times the outcome of a debate for everyone concerned.

Jesus' birth cannot be explained by science. It truly was a miracle and no one has said anything different than that.
Through the scripture my only explanation would be.....
God ordained it, He purposed it, He determined it, from before the foundation of the world and it was so.
On my part anything else would be merely speculation.

Bravo! Bravo, Bravo! At last, a simple honest answer. I say honest because we can't explain it. I like what you said, "before the foundation of the world." I like that very much, I failed to mention that, thank you.

You say that everyone was saying it was a miracle? Not where I was seeing that. They were trying to put a human explanation to a miracle, can't be done.