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Bible Study The Lie of Sinless Perfection.
- Thread starter Tenchi
- Start date
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
I think we are dealing with multiple definitions of sin.
In both testaments the words translated sin [chata Hebrew, hamartia Greek] are archery terms tha mean to miss the mark. You are aiming and trying to hit the bulls eye but miss.
Were the burned works something that was actually the bulls eye, dead center of God's will? No. Therefore they must be sin.
I see nothing in scripture that differentiates between pre-saved sin and post-saved sin. Sin is sin. It is anything that falls short of the glory of God.
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
Sounds pretty common for any number of scriptural misunderstandings.Understanding fire
Fire can purify or consume or torture or?
The flesh fights against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh.
We want everything to be pleasant. Rod and staff are used to direct us at times.
God also works in us to will and do of Hisgood pleasure.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are needed to understand what is going on.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
Humblepie
Member
I do not down play any scripture
What is your conclusion on these scriptures?
Romans 2:13
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.
Romans 3:31
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
1 John 2:4
Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
John 14:15
If you love me, you will keep my commandments
2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.
Galatians 3:21
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.
Joshua 1:8
This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.
Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
James 1:25
But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.
Romans 3:20
For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
1 John 3:4
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
1 John 3:21-22
Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
Proverbs 28:9
If one turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination.
Proverbs 28
Those who forsake the law praise the wicked, but those who keep the law strive against them. Evil men do not understand justice, but those who seek the Lord understand it completely.
Romans 13: 8-10
Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Psalms 119:10
With my whole heart I seek you; let me not wander from your commandments!
Romans 8:7
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
Ezekiel 36:27
And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
Romans 7:7
What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”
By the way, Jesus two commandments are actually written in the Law of Moses, it is a fraction of ALL the law, which if you follow those two wholeheartedly, there is no way you wouldn't be following every instruction that can be followed, including festivals to God, the sabbath, and dietary instructions.Last edited:
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
One thing that is lost in modern evangelical Christianity is the concept of discipleship and sanctification.
IMO all these play into discipleship which leads to sanctification.
Humblepie
Member
We should be defining what sin is with the scriptural definition. Not man's definition.
1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
What do you mean ?
Immediately after John the Baptist spoke of the baptism of fire he described it..."Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." (Matt 3:12)
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
That is NOT the full blown definition. It is a partial definition. Yes, transgression is a sin. So is falling short.
Since ALL the writers of the NT were well versed in the Hebrew scriptures, I suggest you do a full OT analysis of what is a sin, what is a transgression and what is iniquity. They are distinct
That will give you are TRUE scriptural definition, not just a proof text definition.
Tenchi
Member
Yes. The "twisted explanation," though, is worth exposing as such by way of comparison to a proper, untwisted explanation of Scripture that demonstrates the use of good interpretive hermeneutics, sound reason, and a thorough knowledge of God's word. It's temtping in our post-modern, there-is-no-truth era to think that God's word is up-for-grabs as far as what it means. But this isn't the case. There is a well-established doctrinal orthodoxy in Christianity that has endured amidst false teachers and teachings for nearly two thousand years which the present crop of teachers of error cannot dissolve with their various "twists" of God's Truth. All we need to do is understand well and defend those fundamental and thoroughly-established doctrines. As we do, the kooky false teachers are exposed for what they are.
Yes, discovering the depths of God's Truth IS amazing because it always inevitably reveals Him. God's Truth, when I understand it properly, always moves me nearer to God Himself showing me new dimensions of who He is. Nothing beats this sort of divine revelation.
The commandments boil down to this...Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength: and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Why do you feel that doing so, is impossible ?
Humblepie
Member
In the Bible, the word sin – whether it is in the Hebrew or the Greek – actually means to miss the mark. The reason this definition is so important is because it points to two things. First, there is a target we are aiming at, and second it speaks to our intention. Once we know there is a target, then we can choose to hit it or to miss it.
The target is God’s word or commands and when we miss this target, we have committed sin.
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
Very true. It is not just aiming at a different target. (transgressing the command) It is also aiming at the proper mark but not hitting it. Falling short of the glory of God.
Humblepie
Member
Gods words throughout Scripture, not my words.
Not if if contradicts scripture to form a false doctrine.
Jesus came to judge the false doctrine that was well established by the most educated of his day.
Just because it's mainstream doesn't make it true.
What you fail to realize is we need to use the law as a dictionary of sorts. Without the law you can't define what sin is.
Grace through faith is what saves us from the punishment of those sins.
Romans 7:7
What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You
shall not covet.”
I am saying the same exact thing Paul is, and I don't think it would be wise to question his doctrine.
I stray away from the teachings of men and the contradictions that arise with those false teachings.
The law and Grace are in perfect harmony.
I know what falling short means, it means you missed the bullseye, it is still sin that need to be dealt with between us and God.
I'm not hear to judge anyone in their walk, I'm here to spread a truth that has been covered and twisted.
It's not a narrow path because is is as easy as breathing, it involves taking up YOUR cross daily.
Your cross today may be different than my cross today, it depends on how mature your walk with Christ is.
In Acts 15 a new believers cross only consisted of 4 things and all 4 are written in the law of moses.
I am at a scriptural advantage here because I, thanks to the Holy Spirt read and comprehend scripture without contradiction from the OT to the NT.
Once again, the law will never justify us or make us righteous if we use the law for that purpose.
The law condemns us, his sacrifice saves us.
If we use the law, lawfully it is good.
It shows us where we need to improve in our walk with Christ.
Humblepie
Member
Nobody but one is perfect.
Even if you commit one sin in ten years, you are still sinning and are not perfect like Jesus Christ is.
If you say otherwise you are a liar.
Just becaus your goofy "sinles perfection of humans" doctrine is impossible doesn't mean
that THIS text, in purple, is impossible. You've begged the question.
Humblepie
Member
When you finally understand a hard truth or a deep passage that ties multiple scriptures together it is a joy or excitement that can't compare, and makes me that much more hungry and eager for God's deep truths.
It still amazes me at the complexity of his Holy Word and how scripture written hundreds of years apart reveal God's hidden truths.
Every word carries weight. Some skim through it and only pay attention to scripture that backs what they want to believe. I used to read it the same way, now I read it much slower and meditate on it, sometimes on just a couple of words because I want to understand the full truth of what is before me.
Often it helps to read text from the time period to understand what the word is saying. (Example understanding the colossians heresy or Galatian heresy)
It's all in the full context.
If He is our example, our King, our Ransom, our Savior, wouldn't it behoove us to obey Him ?
That is a correct statement.
Thankfully, the gift of the Holy Spirit doesn't fade with age, or use !
Do you know Him ?
"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)
Do you love Him ?
"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." (1 John 5:2-4)
If we know Him, and love Him, we serve only Him.
It isn't impossible, so your argument against it is a strawman argument.
It is written..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)
Won't you consider being reborn of God ?