The No-Trib Rapture Discussion

[researcher]

Post-trib, Mid-trib, Pre-trib... Everyone's welcome to this debate/discussion!

Why a "No-Trib" Rapture? Cuz it already happened. :D

Jesus said:

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till ALL these things be accomplished.

What else did he say about that generation?

Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation.

Mat 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the marketplaces, who call unto their fellows
Mat 11:17 and say, We piped unto you, and ye did not dance; we wailed, and ye did not mourn.

Jesus was talking to the generation that lived in his time, while he was on earth.
No more raptures. Anti-Christ... gone. Two witnesses... came and went.

We're at the end of the millenium, right before the Gog-Magog war, the very end of the world (Rev 20:7). "And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,"

P.S. The word John used for the 1000 years in Rev 20:4&5 is a plural Greek word meaning, 2 or more. Strong's #G5507 "chilioi" The singular word for 1000 is "chilias" #5505. And it's been almost 2000 years since He took the bride to heaven.



Fire away!

 

[researcher]

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans:
Mat 10:6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

The key? Jesus was talking specifically to the 12 disciples.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

The key? Jesus was talking specifically to the 12 disciples.

Not really.
There are others who follow the Lamb witherso he goeth.
It is those who shall not have gone through the cities of Israel,till the Son of man come.

Took me years to understand who he is talking to.

 

[Vic C.]

I don't believe in a future tribulation period; I see tribulation all throughout the history of the ekklesia. I used to believe in a 69-70th week gap, but don't anymore. I believe the latter verses of Daniel 9 to be Messianic and not about antichrist. Daniel 9:26 is split; some of it is in the 70th. week and the last portion of it talks about that great event in 70AD which destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.

I believe there will be a time in the future when the evil one will revealed for what he is and then the wrath of God is unleashed. AT this time God's people will be resurrected/transformed and will miraculously be isolated/insulated from the wrath and come out of unharmed. How God does it... I really don't pretend to know. But HE promises we will not be subjected to HIS wrath. We are never promised escape from tribulation in the form of worldly persecution.

It's no trib/pre wrath or post trib/pre wrath... I don't have a name for it and I don't fit in anywhere else because I have a little of the pre wrath belief along with some of what the historicist and partial preterist believes, but I just cannot embrace your full preterism.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I don't believe in a future tribulation period; I see tribulation all throughout the history of the ekklesia. I used to believe in a 69-70th week gap, but don't anymore. I believe the latter verses of Daniel 9 to be Messianic and not about antichrist. Daniel 9:26 is split; some of it is in the 70th. week and the last portion of it talks about that great event in 70AD which destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.

Rev 6;11
And white robes were given unto every one of them;and it was said unto them,that they should rest yet for a season,untill thier fellow servants also and thier breathren,that should be killed as they were,should be forfilled.

I believe there will be a time in the future when the evil one will revealed for what he is and then the wrath of God is unleashed. AT this time God's people will be resurrected/transformed and will miraculously be isolated/insulated from the wrath and come out of unharmed. How God does it... I really don't pretend to know. But HE promises we will not be subjected to HIS wrath. We are never promised escape from tribulation in the form of worldly persecution.

At the sound of the seventh trump a mortal will put on immortality. ;)

 

[researcher]

I don't believe in a future tribulation period; I see tribulation all throughout the history of the ekklesia. I used to believe in a 69-70th week gap, but don't anymore. I believe the latter verses of Daniel 9 to be Messianic and not about antichrist. Daniel 9:26 is split; some of it is in the 70th. week and the last portion of it talks about that great event in 70AD which destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.

I believe there will be a time in the future when the evil one will revealed for what he is and then the wrath of God is unleashed. AT this time God's people will be resurrected/transformed and will miraculously be isolated/insulated from the wrath and come out of unharmed. How God does it... I really don't pretend to know. But HE promises we will not be subjected to HIS wrath. We are never promised escape from tribulation in the form of worldly persecution.

It's no trib/pre wrath or post trib/pre wrath... I don't have a name for it and I don't fit in anywhere else because I have a little of the pre wrath belief along with some of what the historicist and partial preterist believes, but I just cannot embrace your full preterism.

Hey Vic.

Actually, I'm not a full preterist. I believe Jesus came back, and took the early church though.
They are currently reigning in heaven during the millenium (plural)

Notice this:
Rev 19 Describes events right before the millenium, and, the marriage of the Lamb (Rev 19:7)
Rev 20 Describes the Millenium and the end of it (Rev 20:4-7)
Rev 21 Describes the Bride of Christ coming back to earth (Rev 21:9)

There is a 1000 (actually it would be 2000 or more because of the plural word for 1000 used) gap between the time of the marriage of the Lamb, and, the Bride coming to earth. The bride would have been taken to heaven, and rule from there. At the end of the millenium is the Gog-Magog war, fire from heaven etc. And then the Bride returns to earth. The Gog-Magog war would most likely be Russia and her Arab allies invading Israel. This is where I believe we are at (although, not exactly imminent). I believe Full preterists think that all of Revelation has been fulfilled. I believe it's been fulfilled up to the point of Satan being released to decieve the nations.

 

[researcher]

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

The key? Jesus was talking specifically to the 12 disciples.

Not really.
There are others who follow the Lamb witherso he goeth.
It is those who shall not have gone through the cities of Israel,till the Son of man come.

Took me years to understand who he is talking to.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The Bible says this was accomplished, thus, the end must have come.

1Ti 3:16 and, confessedly, great is the secret of piety--God was manifested in flesh, declared righteous in spirit, seen by messengers, preached among nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory!

Tit 2:11 For the saving grace of God was revealed to all people,

Tit 2:11 For the saving grace of God was manifested to all men,

Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

 

[Shilohsfoal]

researcher
The Bible says this was accomplished, thus, the end must have come.

Im quite sure the end hasnt already come.If that were so then there shouldnt be a beast in the promised land.

 

[researcher]

researcher
The Bible says this was accomplished, thus, the end must have come.

Im quite sure the end hasnt already come.If that were so then there shouldnt be a beast in the promised land.

Luk 21:20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.

It was the end for Jerusalem. The end end would come with a new heaven and a new earth, whether literal or figurative.

 

[LostSoul]

When it comes to the topic of Tribulation, Rapture, or more or less the End Times...I find myself rather uncertain. For there have been signs we are in or near the end going on for quite a while. Though perhaps small....they are constant. Then....I am young. My perception and maturity is not going to be equivalent to that of others who are perhaps more mature and wise in years than I.

Is it possible we could be living in times prior to the Rapture?

Yes.

Is it just as possible we could be living in the days prior to or ones that could be considered pre-tribulation?

Maybe. Anything is possible, especially with God being at the wheel.

Then....it could be just me. As I said before...I am young and know only so much. There is much yet still not revealed to me.

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Luk 21:20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.

It was the end for Jerusalem. The end end would come with a new heaven and a new earth, whether literal or figurative.

Last I looked Jerusalem is as big a city as it ever has.
Im quite sure it is not the city made by God as well.
So,what is the beast doing in the promised land if the saints have already inherited the promised land?

 

[researcher]

Luk 21:20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.

It was the end for Jerusalem. The end end would come with a new heaven and a new earth, whether literal or figurative.

Last I looked Jerusalem is as big a city as it ever has.
Im quite sure it is not the city made by God as well.
So,what is the beast doing in the promised land if the saints have already inherited the promised land?

The beast was Rome. That's ancient history.

Mat 23:34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
Mat 23:35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth.

The blood of the saints and prophets was required of Jerusalem in that generation just like Jesus said. And it was wiped clean by Roman beast.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Last I looked Rome was still in Rome and Rome wasnt cast into the lake of fire.
The beast however is in the promised land today.The same promised land that is promised to the saints.
If the saints have in fact inherited the promised land then why is the beast governing the promised land today?

 

[MISFIT]

Why a "No-Trib" Rapture? Cuz it already happened. :D

WOW I've never heard this before...sorry I don't buy it.

 

[Vic C.]

At the sound of the seventh trump a mortal will put on immortality. ;)

Hi Shilohsfoal, have you read this?

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l002.htm (it's a very short page)

 

[4thangelofEuphrates]

I agree with ( researcher 100% )

I did not come right out and say it in my post, what it is that I actually
believe as far as where we were in the Rev. of the bible.

I have been preaching this for some time, but have gotten a lot of flank and
and cold shoulders, ect.

This is why in my post I have hinted to there being ( two wars ) in Revelations
hoping someone would see and understand, or at least take a closer look.
For I believe that we are in the final war, ma-gog and gog are gathering. I cannot
believe I am actually hearing someone else that actually believes what I do.
I have searched for years to see if there was another person that believed this also.

There is a post rapture for those in the war between mag-gog, gog, and God.
It is not a rapture as being caught up, but as being protected.

And because of what I just read in your post ( researcher ) I will give this also unto
you so that you may also know.


This happened to me and may you know that the Lord showed it unto me:

I was asleep and then awakened in the spirit and I was on the other side of the world,
and it was night and a war was about to take place, and a voice from heaven said
look up, and so I did and out of the heaven came fire down unto earth, for which
looked like the size of hailstones, and the voice in heaven said look unto the earth
and when I looked at the earth I saw those upon earth and they were on fire, but
were not dead, but were on fire, but as I looked around I saw some that were made
white and were not on fire, but shine bright. Then in a blink of an eye I was on this
side of the world and it was day and the same fire from the other side of the world
also came down on this side of the world.

 

[researcher]

I agree with ( researcher 100% )

I did not come right out and say it in my post, what it is that I actually
believe as far as where we were in the Rev. of the bible.

I have been preaching this for some time, but have gotten a lot of flank and
and cold shoulders, ect.

This is why in my post I have hinted to there being ( two wars ) in Revelations
hoping someone would see and understand, or at least take a closer look.
For I believe that we are in the final war, ma-gog and gog are gathering. I cannot
believe I am actually hearing someone else that actually believes what I do.
I have searched for years to see if there was another person that believed this also.

There is a post rapture for those in the war between mag-gog, gog, and God.
It is not a rapture as being caught up, but as being protected.

And because of what I just read in your post ( researcher ) I will give this also unto
you so that you may also know.


This happened to me and may you know that the Lord showed it unto me:

I was asleep and then awakened in the spirit and I was on the other side of the world,
and it was night and a war was about to take place, and a voice from heaven said
look up, and so I did and out of the heaven came fire down unto earth, for which
looked like the size of hailstones, and the voice in heaven said look unto the earth
and when I looked at the earth I saw those upon earth and they were on fire, but
were not dead, but were on fire, but as I looked around I saw some that were made
white and were not on fire, but shine bright. Then in a blink of an eye I was on this
side of the world and it was day and the same fire from the other side of the world
also came down on this side of the world.

Amen 4th!

I have believed that Jesus was coming back in my lifetime for 17 years, and for the most part of that time I was post-trib. It wasn't until about a week and a half ago that I realized, Jesus and the apostles were telling it straight up how it really was. Jesus was returning soon, in their lifetime, and He DID. :o The next thing we see will be the bride coming out of heaven (Rev 21:9) (after the war etc) Lol.

And yes 4th, I agree, God can keep us protected from even nuclear weapons.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

researcher And yes 4th, I agree, God can keep us protected from even nuclear weapons.

What nuclear weapons you talking about?
Ive not read where Gog has nuclear weapons.Ive read where Israel will burn Gog's weapons for 7 years but Ive not read of Israel burning nuclear weapons.

If in fact the seventh trump was blown thousands of years ago as you claim then those in Christ would have already put on immortality.You should already be immortal.
Are you immortal ?

 

[researcher]

researcher And yes 4th, I agree, God can keep us protected from even nuclear weapons.

What nuclear weapons you talking about?
Ive not read where Gog has nuclear weapons.Ive read where Israel will burn Gog's weapons for 7 years but Ive not read of Israel burning nuclear weapons.

If in fact the seventh trump was blown thousands of years ago as you claim then those in Christ would have already put on immortality.You should already be immortal.
Are you immortal ?

God can't protect us from nuclear weapons? It's was a statement, not something prophetic.

Those who were in Christ when he came back are immortal now. And life goes on since he came back. Remember, after Jesus comes back, there is the millenium (Rev 20:4), and life on earth goes on, and after the millenium, the bride comes down out of heaven to earth (Rev 21:9). That means that the bride is in heaven while life on earth goes on. Those on earth will live and die, and if they are in Christ, they will become immortal after they die.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

researcher And yes 4th, I agree, God can keep us protected from even nuclear weapons.

What nuclear weapons you talking about?
Ive not read where Gog has nuclear weapons.Ive read where Israel will burn Gog's weapons for 7 years but Ive not read of Israel burning nuclear weapons.

If in fact the seventh trump was blown thousands of years ago as you claim then those in Christ would have already put on immortality.You should already be immortal.
Are you immortal ?

God can't protect us from nuclear weapons? It's was a statement, not something prophetic.

Those who were in Christ when he came back are immortal now. And life goes on since he came back. Remember, after Jesus comes back, there is the millenium (Rev 20:4), and life on earth goes on, and after the millenium, the bride comes down out of heaven to earth (Rev 21:9). That means that the bride is in heaven while life on earth goes on. Those on earth will live and die, and if they are in Christ, they will become immortal after they die.

The bible doesnt say anything about becoming immortal after you die.It says you become immortal at the sound of the seventh trump.
Now you say when you die the corruptible(the flesh) will put on incorruption but I bet if you died ,they would put you in the ground.Id bet your flesh will rot like anyone elses.
Hence-this corruptible has not yet put on incorruption.

It is written that Gog will come against those who dwell without walls.And you say you are awaiting Gog to attack those in the beloved city .
If Israel in fact dwells without walls today then why are they building walls?