The Process Of Justification

[ezra]

From Strong's: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1344&t=KJV

Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Justified is used in the Bible to, both, be 'made' righteous, and be 'shown' to be righteous. Obviously, James is using the word 'justified' in regard to 'showing' one to be righteous, not 'making' one to be righteous. The context plainly shows us that is what he is talking about: " I will show you my faith by my works." (James 2:18 NASB)

This is in contrast to Paul who uses the word 'justified' to teach how we are 'made' righteous by faith: "having now been justified by His blood" (Romans 5:9 NASB)

To be saved on the Day of Wrath you have to be justified both ways. You have to have faith in Christ, which makes you righteous. That 'cleaning' is a one-time, forever happening of which Jesus says is not necessary to be repeated ("Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean." John 13:10 NIV). And that faith must, by virtue of what it means to be righteous, be seen in the righteous person you have now become. Like having to be wet as an expected and obligatory outcome, and proof, of being in the pool.

YES exactly :amen

 

[ezra]

Such nonsense.

at that it is .

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If faith has to have "works attached" to justify

Allow me to stop you right there:
Faith does not have to have works attached to justify. Faith does that all by itself. The proper argument is, the faith that justifies (all by itself) will have works attached.

So it is in that sense that the faith that justifies is the faith that works. John says it this way: "9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." (1 John 3:9 NIV). Works follow the born again experience, because that's what born again people who now have the righteous nature of Christ in them through their faith do.

 

[ezra]

Allow me to stop you right there:
Faith does not have to have works attached to justify. Faith does that all by itself. The proper argument is, the faith that justifies (all by itself) will have works attached.

So it is in that sense that the faith that justifies is the faith that works. John says it this way: "9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." (1 John 3:9 NIV). Works follow the born again experience, because that's what born again people who now have the righteous nature of Christ in them through their faith do.

:amen

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So, if a person stops believing, he ceases to be justified.

That is what I believe because Hebrews speaks of the effectiveness of Jesus' ministry being in the fact that "he always lives to intercede for them" (Hebrews 7:25 NIV). The implication from the passage being that if his ministry ever ceased, so would that which it accomplishes cease. So if Christ's ministry which is applied to our account by our faith stops because we don't believe and trust in it anymore, so will what it accomplishes for us also cease. Just as if he had stopped living and was not able to continue to intercede on our behalf.

Will mere lack of faith be enough to never be able to be justified again

If you mean the common struggle of the weak and/or ignorant believer, 'no', that will not stop the work of Christ's justifying blood on our behalf (thank God). When we are faithless (but still believing) Christ remains faithful (2 Timothy 2:13). As opposed to actually denying him. In which case Christ will deny us (2 Timothy 2:12). In that case we don't belong to him anymore that he would have some kind of an obligation to not deny his own body as he did when we did belong to him.

or does it have to be blatant apostasy...or do you not see a difference?

Yes, it has to be a blatant and willing and knowledgeable denial of Christ, whether that occurs through careless neglect, or an outright rejection of the blood that sanctified the person. So, yes, I see a BIG difference. There is the sin of our daily struggles and doubts, and then there is the entirely different matter of rejecting the grace of God in Christ altogether.

If a person loses his faith, and therefore his justification because the "care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word", for example, would that be enough to fall under the warnings in Hebrews...

No. He doesn't categorically lose his justification because of the cares of this world, riches, etc. The reason the cares of the world have overcome the person is what determines if he has lost his justification. If he is overcome because of a rejection of Christ, he will indeed lose his justification. If he is overcome because of weakness and ignorance he remains Christ's and Christ remains faithful to his own.

...or would the person have to reject Christ outright?

He would have to reject Christ outright to lose his justification. And IMO that's a long hard road to go down before Christ finally turns you over to your decision to not trust his blood anymore. A loooooong hard road. That journey is pitiful enough, but seeing it through to the end and being lost is even more pitiful. Beyond my comprehension, but the Bible does speak of it, so some must really do that. There is no possibility provided for their return to the grace of God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The gospel is so awesome.
It's like a beautiful song that fills the soul.
Thank you, God, for the greatest news mankind has ever heard.

 

[JLB]

Faith does that all by itself.

Faith all by itself does nothing, because it's dead.

Believing all by itself does nothing.

It takes believing in your heart and confessing with your mouth to be saved.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If faith has to have "works attached" to justify, doesn't that simply mean that if there are no "works" there is no justification, even if there is faith?

In regard to the emboldened part: No works signify there WAS no justification, not 'will be no' justification. John says it this way: "8 the one who practices sin is of the devil" (1 John 3:8 NASB).
IOW, the unrighteous person is simply showing himself to have never been justified by the blood of Christ, while the person growing up into the righteous acts of Christ (even if ever so slowly) is showing himself to have indeed already been justified and made righteous by the blood of Christ.

In regard to "even if there is faith", the person who says they have faith but has no discernible pattern or lifestyle of righteous works is deceived. They do not have the faith that justifies even though they may claim they do. Faith without works is like saying you went swimming but remain bone dry. Those who have been baptized into the Christ via the Holy Spirit will exhibit some kind of evidence of that submersion, even if it's only negligible in the beginning. Don't be deceived: You can't become a new creation without that new nature becoming evident somewhere somehow: "Make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil" (1 John 3:7-8 NASB bold mine)

 

[ezra]

Faith all by itself does nothing, because it's dead.

Believing all by itself does nothing.

It takes believing in your heart and confessing with your mouth to be saved.

Romans 10: 10 one thing man does good is takes scriptures and makes them fit his belief

3 Ways We Create Our Own Jesus
1. A Jesus Who Likes Our Behavior
We like a Jesus who comfortably comes alongside our lifestyle and behavior, affirming the way we already live so we can do two things at once: have Jesus as our BFF and also continue to live as we please.

So we say things like: “Jesus never mentioned __________ therefore it’s ok to do.” Not only does this sound strangely like something my 6-year old son would say—Daddy, you never said we couldn’t climb on top of the refrigerator—it is also really poor exegesis. Christ himself affirmed the Old Testament Scriptures (Matthew 5:17-19; John 10:35). He also promised the coming of the Holy Spirit who would inspire the writers of the New Testament to complete the canon (John 14-16).

When we say things like, “Jesus didn’t say this in the red letters” we demonstrate a small, paltry view of Jesus. But the Christ of Scripture didn’t come to clean up the mess from the supposedly angry deity of the Old Testament, the Christ of Scripture is God and as Creator, Lord, King, and one with the Father and the Spirit, is the author of all of Scripture. All the letters in the Bible are red, not just the ones highlighted in the gospel by the Bible publishers.

When we adapt Jesus to fit our behavior, it seems beneficial at first, but ultimately we find in this Jesus an impartial Jesus, a false Jesus. We come away empty, unsatisfied, and incomplete. Only the real Christ of Scripture, who came to old us unto His image, will satisfy the deepest longings of the human soul.

2. A Jesus Who Agrees with our Beliefs
We also like a Jesus who is an easy proof-text for our ideology. People on all sides of the spectrum fall prey to this, myself as the chief one. Its easy to pick and choose statements that either make Jesus a card-carrying member of the GOP or a union rep for the progressive caucus. But Jesus doesn’t easily fit into our political boxes. On some level, Jesus crushes conservatives in so much that he forces us to think beyond just moral categories towards redemption and gospel transformation of the soul. Love of country and checking all the right political boxes leads people to Hell as fast as hedonism.

But Jesus also wasn’t a free-range socialist mascot for left-wing causes. Jesus spoke often about the poor, in line with the Old Testament prophets, but only partisans could turn him into a champion for the nanny state.

In other words, Jesus didn’t come to be a bumper sticker for our pet causes; He came preaching repentance and the coming of the Kingdom of God, a kingdom that upends the existing social order. He both preached the creational and mosaic view of marriage and offered sanctifying grace to adulterers. He spoke of a literal Hell and told deeply religious people that their outward conformity wasn’t enough to keep them from judgment. He was silent before his accusers and he told the leading rulers of his day that their mini-kingdoms were subject to the authority of God.

We’re better off leaving our pre-conceived Jesus notions to the side when we study the real Jesus because Jesus is way better than the proof-texted Jesus who endorses our paltry ideologies.

3. A Jesus Who Seems Boring to Moderns
Lastly, we conform Jesus to our own image because Jesus has become . . . well . . boring to us. But we’re not falling asleep because the real Christ is yawningly pedestrian, but because we’ve forsaken a pursuit of the real Christ for a Christ who entertains and delights, a Christ for all of our senses. Jesus is not boring, it is we who have, in the words of C.S. Lewis, exchanged vacations at the sea for mud pies. This might be why many evangelicals who gather to worship every Sunday find themselves strangely empty on Monday morning. We’re thirsty for transcendence, but we’re drinking from the dry wells of narcissism.

The real Christ, the Christ of Scripture, the Christ who is building His church and calling out his people, this is the Christ we need. Jesus doesn’t need new PR, he pursues relationship with those he came to save. We don’t need a new Jesus for a new day, we need the ever-relevant Ancient of Days. A Christ who doesn’t titillate and entertain, but who transforms and sanctifies. It is not Jesus who needs to change, it is us who will find lasting peace and personal glory only in knowing, following, and loving the original Jesus.

{ http://www.millennialevangelical.com/3-ways-we-create-our-own-jesus/}

 

[Kidron]

Faith all by itself does nothing, because it's dead.

Believing all by itself does nothing.

It takes believing in your heart and confessing with your mouth to be saved.


JLB

What if there is no God?......then, what does your confessing and believing get you then?
NOTHING. <
So, here is the reality check..,

Grace THROUGH Faith.
Mercy THROUGH Faith.

So the misunderstanding you are having, is that Faith or Believing is doing the saving.
And that is error.
The SAVING is done by GOD, and He ACCEPTS your faith = to SAVE YOU.

"to him that worketh not....(that is you not working to be saved).....but believeth on Him.....( Gospel = that is you believing on Christ), who JUSTIFIES the UNGODLY.....(that is GOD saving you ), ..... your FAITH is COUNTED.....(that is your faith being accepted) for Righteousness".....(that is God accepting your faith and then GIVING YOU righteousness).

Romans 4:5

 

[ezra]

What if there is no God?......then, what does your confessing and believing get you then?
NOTHING. <
So, here is the reality check..,

Grace THROUGH Faith.
Mercy THROUGH Faith.

So the misunderstanding you are having, is that Faith or Believing is doing the saving.
And that is error.
The SAVING is done by GOD, and He ACCEPTS your faith = to SAVE YOU.

"to him that worketh not....(that is you not working to be saved).....but believeth on Him.....( Gospel = that is you believing on Christ), who JUSTIFIES the UNGODLY.....(that is GOD saving you ), ..... your FAITH is COUNTED.....(that is your faith being accepted) for Righteousness".....(that is God accepting your faith and then GIVING YOU righteousness).

Romans 4:5

i have a hard time even to begin to understand all this multiple justification. all most sound like the 12 step program in alcoholics anonymous

 

[JLB]

Romans 10: 10 one thing man does good is takes scriptures and makes them fit his belief

3 Ways We Create Our Own Jesus
1. A Jesus Who Likes Our Behavior
We like a Jesus who comfortably comes alongside our lifestyle and behavior, affirming the way we already live so we can do two things at once: have Jesus as our BFF and also continue to live as we please.

So we say things like: “Jesus never mentioned __________ therefore it’s ok to do.” Not only does this sound strangely like something my 6-year old son would say—Daddy, you never said we couldn’t climb on top of the refrigerator—it is also really poor exegesis. Christ himself affirmed the Old Testament Scriptures (Matthew 5:17-19; John 10:35). He also promised the coming of the Holy Spirit who would inspire the writers of the New Testament to complete the canon (John 14-16).

When we say things like, “Jesus didn’t say this in the red letters” we demonstrate a small, paltry view of Jesus. But the Christ of Scripture didn’t come to clean up the mess from the supposedly angry deity of the Old Testament, the Christ of Scripture is God and as Creator, Lord, King, and one with the Father and the Spirit, is the author of all of Scripture. All the letters in the Bible are red, not just the ones highlighted in the gospel by the Bible publishers.

When we adapt Jesus to fit our behavior, it seems beneficial at first, but ultimately we find in this Jesus an impartial Jesus, a false Jesus. We come away empty, unsatisfied, and incomplete. Only the real Christ of Scripture, who came to old us unto His image, will satisfy the deepest longings of the human soul.

2. A Jesus Who Agrees with our Beliefs
We also like a Jesus who is an easy proof-text for our ideology. People on all sides of the spectrum fall prey to this, myself as the chief one. Its easy to pick and choose statements that either make Jesus a card-carrying member of the GOP or a union rep for the progressive caucus. But Jesus doesn’t easily fit into our political boxes. On some level, Jesus crushes conservatives in so much that he forces us to think beyond just moral categories towards redemption and gospel transformation of the soul. Love of country and checking all the right political boxes leads people to Hell as fast as hedonism.

But Jesus also wasn’t a free-range socialist mascot for left-wing causes. Jesus spoke often about the poor, in line with the Old Testament prophets, but only partisans could turn him into a champion for the nanny state.

In other words, Jesus didn’t come to be a bumper sticker for our pet causes; He came preaching repentance and the coming of the Kingdom of God, a kingdom that upends the existing social order. He both preached the creational and mosaic view of marriage and offered sanctifying grace to adulterers. He spoke of a literal Hell and told deeply religious people that their outward conformity wasn’t enough to keep them from judgment. He was silent before his accusers and he told the leading rulers of his day that their mini-kingdoms were subject to the authority of God.

We’re better off leaving our pre-conceived Jesus notions to the side when we study the real Jesus because Jesus is way better than the proof-texted Jesus who endorses our paltry ideologies.

3. A Jesus Who Seems Boring to Moderns
Lastly, we conform Jesus to our own image because Jesus has become . . . well . . boring to us. But we’re not falling asleep because the real Christ is yawningly pedestrian, but because we’ve forsaken a pursuit of the real Christ for a Christ who entertains and delights, a Christ for all of our senses. Jesus is not boring, it is we who have, in the words of C.S. Lewis, exchanged vacations at the sea for mud pies. This might be why many evangelicals who gather to worship every Sunday find themselves strangely empty on Monday morning. We’re thirsty for transcendence, but we’re drinking from the dry wells of narcissism.

The real Christ, the Christ of Scripture, the Christ who is building His church and calling out his people, this is the Christ we need. Jesus doesn’t need new PR, he pursues relationship with those he came to save. We don’t need a new Jesus for a new day, we need the ever-relevant Ancient of Days. A Christ who doesn’t titillate and entertain, but who transforms and sanctifies. It is not Jesus who needs to change, it is us who will find lasting peace and personal glory only in knowing, following, and loving the original Jesus.

{ http://www.millennialevangelical.com/3-ways-we-create-our-own-jesus/}

More deceitful logical fallacy.

Man must obey to be saved.

Here's what the scripture says.

...confession is made unto salvation

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:10


It's called SUBMISSION!

We bow our heart, we bow our life, we bow our knee to our LORD, and confess with our mouth Jesus as Lord!

It's called Repent!

It's called the obedience of faith!

Jesus Christ is LORD, YHWH, The Lord God Almighty!


JLB

 

[ezra]

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:10

and this is our justification declared righteous not guilty by Grace through faith one time deal

 

[Kidron]

i have a hard time even to begin to understand all this multiple justification. all most sound like the 12 step program in alcoholics anonymous

It appears that some of the posters here have divided Justification and Salvation into separate categories, as if they are not the same thing.

Its as if they are saying this....."well, Jesus saved me, but now if i want to go to heaven i have to justify myself by holding onto my faith and keeping the commandments of Christ, while i endure to the end, being careful not to willfully sin.""
So, that gospel, is what Paul refers to in . Galatians 1:8

 

[JLB]

i have a hard time even to begin to understand all this multiple justification. all most sound like the 12 step program in alcoholics anonymous

Abraham was justified in Genesis 12 for the first time. Irrefutable.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8-9

This is a reference to Genesis 12, when Abraham first believed, and he obeyed.

He was justified again in Genesis 22.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21
(Edited, ToS 2.4, personal attack. Obadiah.)

JLB

 

[ezra]

Abraham was justified in Genesis 12 for the first time. Irrefutable.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8-9

This is a reference to Genesis 12, when Abraham first believed, and he obeyed.

He was justified again in Genesis 22.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

(Edited, ToS 2.4, personal attack. Obadiah.)

JLB

Abraham used prove his justification .this was explained in another post . justification when we get saved is NOT BY WORKS if your saying justification declared righteous just as we had never sinned THE ANSWER IS NO NOT NOPE NOT EVEN james is speaking about faith w/o works.. a simple way to say it faith works. . sorry but saving justification does not come by works. in fact Abraham was all ready justified. . there is no work based salvation. works follow .after we are saved.your cherry picking scriptures

 

[JLB]

Abraham used prove his justification .this was explained in another post

????

 

[JLB]

justification when we get saved is NOT BY WORKS

Never said it was.

 

[JLB]

Abraham used prove his justification .this was explained in another post . justification when we get saved is NOT BY WORKS if your saying justification declared righteous just as we had never sinned THE ANSWER IS NO NOT NOPE NOT EVEN james is speaking about faith w/o works.. a simple way to say it faith works. . sorry but saving justification does not come by works. in fact Abraham was all ready justified. . there is no work based salvation. works follow .after we are saved.your cherry picking scriptures

Here's what I said -

Abraham was justified in Genesis 12 for the first time. Irrefutable.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8-9

This phrase is from Genesis 12.

Now if you have a scripture that shows us Abraham was not justified by his obedient faith in Genesis 12.

JLB

 

[ezra]

Here's what I said -

Abraham was justified in Genesis 12 for the first time. Irrefutable.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8-9

This phrase is from Genesis 12.

Now if you have a scripture that shows us Abraham was not justified by his obedient faith in Genesis 12.

JLB