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The Process Of Justification

dadof10 said:
Jethro Bodine, in short, do you think your exegesis below refers to those who are described in Matt. 13? Do you think those who "last only a short time" and "quickly fall away" have "willfully trampled on the blood"?

Jethro wrote: "No faith in the blood means no more on going one-time offering of blood applied to your account (Hebrews 7:25 NIV). No more blood means no more justification. And Hebrews explains how the person who has willfully trampled on the blood has nothing to look forward to except damnation with the enemies of God, with no possibility for repentance:
Click to expand...
Maybe, maybe not. God is the judge on that. And using Israel's example, I'm of the opinion that God is very looooooooooooooooong suffering and gives the former believer lots of time and space and exhortation and chastisement to come back to his senses.

Then, after all that and they still "go on sinning" (Hebrews 10:26 NASB)--continuing to willfully reject Christ's forgiveness and ignore his outstretched hands--that is when God decides that Christ's ministry no longer covers them.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Maybe, maybe not. God is the judge on that. And using Israel's example, I'm of the opinion that God is very looooooooooooooooong suffering and gives the former believer lots of time and space and exhortation and chastisement to come back to his senses.
Click to expand...
Did you mean to say "former believer"? If you did, we agree. A believer fades away from the faith (as opposed to apostatizes) and becomes a "former believer", he can still "come back to his senses" and be justified again.

Then, after all that and they still "go on sinning" (Hebrews 10:26 NASB)--continuing to willfully reject Christ's forgiveness and ignore his outstretched hands--that is when God decides that Christ's ministry no longer covers them.
Click to expand...
I think it's more accurately stated "the former believer continues to reject Christ's grace until death". I don't believe "God decides" to reject anyone, no matter what. I couldn't ever reject my children, no matter what, and my love for my kids is minuscule compared to God's love for us
 
smaller said:
There is exactly ZERO basis to smear Abraham, as you have so insistently tried, and utterly FAILED to do.
Click to expand...
Please at least hear this one simple point. I am not trying to "smear" Abraham anymore than I'm trying to "smear" all of humanity, including my wife, my kids, my mom and myself!!! The EXAMPLE OF ABRAHAM shows that WE, ALL PEOPLE can lose justification and regain it through the Grace of God. If you hear nothing else, at least hear this.
 
dadof10 said:
Please at least hear this one simple point. I am not trying to "smear" Abraham anymore than I'm trying to "smear" all of humanity, including my wife, my kids, my mom and myself!!! The EXAMPLE OF ABRAHAM shows that WE, ALL PEOPLE can lose justification and regain it through the Grace of God. If you hear nothing else, at least hear this.
Click to expand...

When you claim Abraham lost his faith, that, at least in your dictate, potentially damns him.

And yes, that is a smear by any measure. Why you would allow yourself into that sight will remain the only question.
 
smaller said:
When you claim Abraham lost his faith, that, at least in your dictate, potentially damns him.

And yes, that is a smear by any measure. Why you would allow yourself into that sight will remain the only question.
Click to expand...
LOL...never mind...
 
dadof10 said:
Please at least hear this one simple point. I am not trying to "smear" Abraham anymore than I'm trying to "smear" all of humanity, including my wife, my kids, my mom and myself!!! The EXAMPLE OF ABRAHAM shows that WE, ALL PEOPLE can lose justification and regain it through the Grace of God. If you hear nothing else, at least hear this.
Click to expand...

Brother, please pay no attention to childish logical fallacies.

Nobody actually believes you tried to "smear" Abraham.

He has no other choice than to try and discredit you, since you have put him in Checkmate with the truth of the scriptures.

He has no scriptural response.


JLB
 
JLB said:
Brother, please pay no attention to childish logical fallacies.

Nobody actually believes you tried to "smear" Abraham.

He has no other choice than to try and discredit you, since you have put him in Checkmate with the truth of the scriptures.

He has no scriptural response.

JLB
Click to expand...

Here is his non-existing from scriptural proof claim, verbatim, speaking of Abraham:

"he lost his obedience or his faith."

So, let me hear your AMEN to this, so you're on the record as saying Abraham lost his faith.
 
JLB said:
Brother, please pay no attention to childish logical fallacies.

Nobody actually believes you tried to "smear" Abraham.

He has no other choice than to try and discredit you, since you have put him in Checkmate with the truth of the scriptures.

He has no scriptural response.


JLB
Click to expand...
I don't. Just killing time until Jethro's next post...
 
Here is what GOD said about Abraham:

Joshua 24:
2 And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.

3 And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac.

That "taking" came the instant God called him, and every step of his ways were LED by God.
 
smaller said:
Here is his non-existing from scriptural proof claim, verbatim, speaking of Abraham:

"he lost his obedience or his faith."

So, let me hear your AMEN to this, so you're on the record as saying Abraham lost his faith.
Click to expand...
I have proved that he must have either lost his obedience or his faith, because he was justified in Gen. 12, then again in Gen. 15. Now, the ball is in your court to prove this contention wrong. Anything else is simply blowing smoke.
 
dadof10 said:
I have proved that he must have either lost his obedience or his faith, because he was justified in Gen. 12, then again in Gen. 15. Now, the ball is in your court to prove this contention wrong. Anything else is simply blowing smoke.
Click to expand...

You've proved nothing and there is zero scripture stating such a thing.

It's entirely an imagination to suit what you've been sold.

Here, God TELLS us:

Isaiah 51:2
Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
 
smaller said:
You've proved nothing and there is zero scripture stating such a thing.

It's entirely an imagination to suit what you've been sold.

Here, God TELLS us:

Isaiah 51:2
Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
Click to expand...
Here is the Scriptural proof that he was justified in Gen. 12:

"By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went." (Heb. 11:8 KJV)

He had an obedient faith that justified him in Gen. 12, therefore he was justified by faith in Gen. 12.
 
God: "I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all-"

God: "I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him."

dado10: "Abraham lost his faith."

FAIL!
 
The first FAIL in dado10's sight comes in seeing ONLY Abraham in these equations. It's the same FAIL of sight that is used to condemn any person of faith. They only see the person and NEVER God in Christ.

This FAIL was noted early on in this thread. There was no "just Abraham" just as there is "NO BELIEVER" apart from Christ WORKING in their behalves. These are not just questions about the individual, but about the COMPLETE SUFFICIENCY of God in Christ.

There wasn't any reason to see Abraham apart from God working IN him to start with.
 
The second part, God in Christ working IN Abraham was also shown earlier in this thread. Abraham was a prophet, and prophets speak from the SPIRIT OF CHRIST in them to speak.

So, we KNOW that THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST HIMSELF was IN ABRAHAM.
 
smaller said:
God: "I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all-"

God: "I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him."

dado10: "Abraham lost his faith."

FAIL!
Click to expand...
I never said he "lost his faith". You are taking my words out of context. Do you have any logical reason as to why you think the author of Hebrews is lying about Abraham's justification in Gen. 12?
 
Well, this has been fun, but I have to get to work now and I'm sure Jethro will post before tomorrow morning. Take care, Smaller...
 
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