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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The rapture
- Thread starter josefnospam
- Start date
B
Brother Mike
Guest
just messing with JLB......... It's another rapture thread, like that has never been done before anywhere, right?
Just here to mess with JLB........... That's all.
While Antichrist name stuck only being used by John to say that there are spirits now in the Word that do whatever they can to diminish the anointing of God on our lives though strife, deceit, and what not. The name had been used for what Paul called the Son of Perdition.
So while the number of the beast is a number of "A" man and one sets up somewhere to make himself God. I don't believe that dots are being connected in a erroneous way denoting a end time bad guy.
1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Johns supposition was that there are spirits that deny the father and son, Spirits that confesses not Jesus the anointed has come in the flesh. It's not a big thing to swallow that there is some man who has some authority that is motivated by these spirits of anti anointing.
2Th_2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God
I am one that believes all this temple rebuilding is a bunch of nonsense for those end time folk who have nothing better to do with their time. They found this blue dye that bla, bla, bla whatever.
However, a temple or specific temple does not need built. Heck, we have lots of temples already and could be anyone, right? Same with a Holy Place, Jesus told that women we worship God in truth and Spirit so what would be considered a holy place anymore by God?
Paul said a temple of God, so some temple dedicated to God and not really a holy place but someplace. We have lots of those ready to go.
Mike.
Sinthesis
Member
Fortunately your word isn't the authority here.
Jhn 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Aren't we as believers included as them in the above?
Our hope in Christ is not that we avoid a physical death, but that we may as believers serve His purposes in the world as strangers to it, but protected from it's evil through His gift of spiritual life. The good news is that even though our physical bodies will eventually die, perhaps even gruesomely as with most all of the apostles, we are promised resurrected bodies and an avoidance of the second death.
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
Now we're getting some light shed. I have always suspected that the Antichrist men speak of has absolutely nothing to do with what John wrote and that the moniker was simply co-opted from 1 John to describe the individuals spoken of in Daniel 9, perhaps Daniel 7, Matthew 24, in Thessalonians, and in Revelation.
The problem with connecting these verses and calling the person 'The Antichrist" is that the Bible doesn't do that. If we look at Daniel we do not see an end of the world picture depicted. We see a picture about ancient Israel's later days. These days were most likely either referencing the time of Antichus Epiphanes IV or the time of Jesus. In Matthew the writer explicedly speaks of the last days of the Jerusalem Temple that Herod had rebuilt. In both Thesalonians and Revelation there is an imminance in the tone of the writers. John in Rev 1:19 talks about things that are to come to pass shortly.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
For many believers the following, the work, the preaching must in some way end with a final judgment. There is a rushed feeling in John and Paul's Writings that believers must prepare and get things right. "The Antichrist" is very clear by Johns writings a spirit that had pervaded the area and was effect people as we don't wrestle against flesh and blood. To say that it was just "A" man would mean mean making connections that are simple not there as John is the only one to flag these types of spirits and their operations.
So, while there was a imminence in the tone of the writers, certainly a "Stay Ready, Serve the Lord and all is well." There are other passages of scriptures I personally would have issue with in comparison to write off a end of the World, God judges.............. Happy ever after ending.
The scriptures that would cause me to shy from a "Already done, already occurred" position have been discussed by JLB and a few others, myself included in many other threads. While we are told these things must come to pass shortly, I hear the echo of the Lord and what the Lord considers his timing of things. Short to the Lord does not mean in our lifetime or even several lifetimes thereafter. It denotes a start of things which all things wrap up.
In the last days God has sent his son to speak to us.........
Well, that was about 2K years ago, so I can't take the position that more is not to come. Peter said things do not continue as they always have, and since the Lord Jesus they have.
Yes we are, but you did not understand a thing when I explained the scripture to you. One more time......... Jesus said to His father, that his 12 are not of this world, the World hated me and will hate them, because they are not of this World (Not belonging here on earth) I am not asking you to take them out of the World but keep the from evil.
Your making stuff up here.............. Keep them in the World!!! that is physical protection like the Word Salvation and saved mean. If something evil kills you here then you are removed from the world. There is nothing else for you under the sun.
Also one scripture where any apostle died in a gruesome way. Just one.
I already told you by the scripture you brought up that it best you address other folks. Same old stuff and worse you twist it around to some spiritual protection saying that most of the apostles died a gruesome death.
I have a scripture for you.
Heb_11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Our hope in Christ is not that we avoid a physical death...................
Luk_10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
What does nothing mean to you?
Isa_54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
What does no weapon shall prosper mean to you?
All that must just spiritual........... In the land of clouds right?
Where is your faith?
2Ti_4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
Who has to be ready to go?
Enough..........
Your scripture where just one apostle's death is recorded and how gruesome it was. We will go from there when you produce that. You will get my attention when that is produced as I sure can't find it myself.
Mike.
Luke 17:26-36;
We see in verse 26 that God saved Noah and then destroyed the wicked.
Noah did not have to go through the tribulation.
In verse 28, we see that God saved Lot and then destroyed Sodom.
Lot did not have to go through the tribulation.
In verses 30-36, Jesus tells us it will be the same for us.
We will not have to go through the tribulation.
The best answer for everything is Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour"....
We cannot have a 7 year tribulation so we can count down the hours.
The church is gone.
Those who are beheaded in the tribulation period are not those "saved by grace".
We see in verse 26 that God saved Noah and then destroyed the wicked.
Noah did not have to go through the tribulation.
In verse 28, we see that God saved Lot and then destroyed Sodom.
Lot did not have to go through the tribulation.
In verses 30-36, Jesus tells us it will be the same for us.
We will not have to go through the tribulation.
The best answer for everything is Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour"....
We cannot have a 7 year tribulation so we can count down the hours.
The church is gone.
Those who are beheaded in the tribulation period are not those "saved by grace".
How about the marriage supper of the Lamb?
Revelation 19:7-9;
Without a doubt, the marriage supper and His prepared bride takes place before He returns to destroy the enemy, before the thousand years.
How can you interpret this any other way?
Revelation 19:7-9;
Without a doubt, the marriage supper and His prepared bride takes place before He returns to destroy the enemy, before the thousand years.
How can you interpret this any other way?
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Brother Mike
Guest
right, God has always gotten his folk up out of there!!! So if we get taken out of there (Out of the way) then we won't be much use hanging around on earth during tribulation time. In fact God does not need us around for the trumpets or vials as the only tribulation going on is things God is doing and the little piddly stuff Satan can muster up and we certainly are not subject to anything the devil can do because of the greater one in us.
Jesus did talk about the flood and tells how Noah was rescued.
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Noah got in the boat, we are taken by the Lord. Just as in Noah's day nobody is going to know a thing when the day of Christ (God's anointed) is at hand. Same with the folks in Noah's day, all clueless until that Ark door closes.
Nobody is going to be plowing fields once that first trumpet sounds. Nobody will even be in a field when that 6th seal is released and 1/2 hour of silence following because it will be DARK!!!!! who plows fields in the dark?
The thought is people are working as if nothing else has happened on the earth prior to this taking of the people of God.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Only those that call Jesus Lord and Master qualify for this event and only if found faithful doing what they are suppose to do. The rest will have to wait until God puts out the sun and remove the stars to set the stage for Jesus to come in power and glory that every eye will see.
allenwynne don't look complicated to me either. We can't stay here because with the anointed church in the way, Satan don't stand a chance and we can't be here when God is bringing the pain on everyone else as we would not have anything to do but just watch.
Mike.
The marriage supper of the lamb takes place on earth, when the resurrection of the dead takes place.
The bride will have her Glorified Righteous body that will never die.
In heaven she is given fine linen.
They are headed to earth.
There is no mention or description of the marriage supper in heaven.
Jesus said -
31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
... inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
This is on earth.
There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. 29 They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God.Luke 13:28-29
On earth is where the marriage supper takes place.
JLB
7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready." 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9 Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' " And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God." 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." 11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Revelation 19:7-15
The reason it is time for Him to return, here in this scripture, is because THE BRIDE HAS MADE HERSELF READY!
Are honestly trying to convince us that the marriage supper that you say is 7 years long happens between verse 9 and verse 11.
That is funny!!
Just what is it about verse 10 that gives the impression that the 7 year marriage supper takes place?
I have heard alot better things from the Jehovah's Witness's!
JLB
No offense, bro.
Just facts.
Please answer what you see in verse 10 of Revelation 19 that gives the impression of a 7 year marriage supper.
JLB
I look at your verses and I don't see the earth mentioned anywhere.
You are assuming answers as much as I am.
But I see the end of Revelation in chronological order.
And the bride of Christ has been prepared before the King of Kings and Lord of Lords defeats the enemy.
Before the thousand years, before satan's doom, before the dead are judged, and before the New Jerusalem.
And as such, we cannot be subject to sin if we are already prepared for the marriage supper.
I never said the marriage supper of the Lamb is 7 years, but who is to say it isn't?
B
Brother Mike
Guest
OH my.......... I always liked that JLB guy, but knew something was off................ Post trib rapture, Hates Greek females...... It all adds up now. What a shame.
Mike.
9 Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' " And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God."
Verse 9 Marriage supper of the Lamb has not taken place yet.
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
verse 10, no indication of marriage supper taking place.
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Jesus returns to earth to strike the nations and rule them with a rod of iron.
Unless you are going to try and convince us that the nations Jesus intends to rule are on Mars, then Jesus, according to the word of the Lord, is heading to earth to do just that, which means the marriage supper is on earth.
JLB
B
Brother Mike
Guest
The marriage supper has never been the real issue. There are like 4 key scriptures that shift the church to the end of tribulation or they shift the church out of tribulation. It's just 4 scriptures........... All 4 need to be post or pre trib or else the whole system is off.
Spitting Matthew into two events not one.
Paul's order of resurrection.
Paul saying departure or Paul saying Apostasy (English version)
Day of the Lord, Day of Christ. The same or different.
Now what's this I hear about being JW? Please tell.
Mike.
n2thelight
Member
I Thessalonians 4:13
13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
The topic at hand is concerning where the dead are. If we believe Christ is risen, so then are the ones who have passed on before us. They are risen with Him (II Corinthians 5:8).
How can He bring them with Him if they are not already there with Him?
I Thessalonians 4:15
"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep."
We can’t prevent them because they have already passed on and are with Christ. Risen as He has.
Now let’s take a look at Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians.
II Thessalonians 2:1
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"
The topic here is the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we gather back together with Him.
II Thessalonians 2:2
"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."
II Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
What day shall not come? The Day of the Lord, our gathering back unto Him. What “falling away?†The “falling away†from God’s Word. “Falling away†is Strong’s word 646 which means “defection from truthâ€. We see that becoming more prevalent day by day. Who is the man of sin, the son of perdition? It’s none other than Satan himself. He is the only one that has been condemned to death by name (Revelation 20:10, Ezekiel 28:18-19).
This is saying very clearly that the Day of the Lord, His return, will NOT happen until Satan who plays the role of the false messiah, who pretends to be Jesus Christ has been revealed. This makes it utterly impossible for there to be a rapture.
II Thessalonians 2:4
"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
The "son of perdition", Satan, is going to put on the best acting job you ever witnessed. He will claim to be our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is why Christ would tell us, 'if they say I am here or there believe it not', this is why he warned us of false Christs.
II Thessalonians 2:5
5 "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?"
6 "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time."
Who will be revealed? Satan, who will set himself up as, and claim to be Jesus Christ.
II Thessalonians 2:7
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."
Who is he that letteth? It is Michael the archangel. Until who be taken out of the way? The subject is still Satan. Michael is holding Satan in heaven until it’s time for Michael to cast him and HIS ANGELS out (Revelation 12:7-9), then Satan will be here on earth claiming to be Christ.
II Thessalonians 2:8
"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"
What wicked? Satan, who will appear first at the sixth trump, claiming to be Jesus Christ as verse four states. Then our Lord will return at the seventh trump to destroy him. Remember, there are a total of seven trumps and they are all in order. Follow the sequence.
II Thessalonians 2:9
"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"
Once again, Jesus coming is after the workings of Satan, not before. What power and signs is verse nine referring to? Satan will “doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men†(Revelation 13:13). He does this right in the sight of men! This is very deceptive is it not?
Jesus is returning to the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 1:1-4, Acts 1:11-12) and he is bringing many of those who passed on before us with him. Once again this leaves absolutely no room for a rapture my friends. Quite the contrary, our job is going to be to prophesy against the false messiah, Satan (Luke 21:12-18).
13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
The topic at hand is concerning where the dead are. If we believe Christ is risen, so then are the ones who have passed on before us. They are risen with Him (II Corinthians 5:8).
How can He bring them with Him if they are not already there with Him?
I Thessalonians 4:15
"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep."
We can’t prevent them because they have already passed on and are with Christ. Risen as He has.
Now let’s take a look at Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians.
II Thessalonians 2:1
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"
The topic here is the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we gather back together with Him.
II Thessalonians 2:2
"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."
II Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
What day shall not come? The Day of the Lord, our gathering back unto Him. What “falling away?†The “falling away†from God’s Word. “Falling away†is Strong’s word 646 which means “defection from truthâ€. We see that becoming more prevalent day by day. Who is the man of sin, the son of perdition? It’s none other than Satan himself. He is the only one that has been condemned to death by name (Revelation 20:10, Ezekiel 28:18-19).
This is saying very clearly that the Day of the Lord, His return, will NOT happen until Satan who plays the role of the false messiah, who pretends to be Jesus Christ has been revealed. This makes it utterly impossible for there to be a rapture.
II Thessalonians 2:4
"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
The "son of perdition", Satan, is going to put on the best acting job you ever witnessed. He will claim to be our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is why Christ would tell us, 'if they say I am here or there believe it not', this is why he warned us of false Christs.
II Thessalonians 2:5
5 "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?"
6 "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time."
Who will be revealed? Satan, who will set himself up as, and claim to be Jesus Christ.
II Thessalonians 2:7
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."
Who is he that letteth? It is Michael the archangel. Until who be taken out of the way? The subject is still Satan. Michael is holding Satan in heaven until it’s time for Michael to cast him and HIS ANGELS out (Revelation 12:7-9), then Satan will be here on earth claiming to be Christ.
II Thessalonians 2:8
"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"
What wicked? Satan, who will appear first at the sixth trump, claiming to be Jesus Christ as verse four states. Then our Lord will return at the seventh trump to destroy him. Remember, there are a total of seven trumps and they are all in order. Follow the sequence.
II Thessalonians 2:9
"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"
Once again, Jesus coming is after the workings of Satan, not before. What power and signs is verse nine referring to? Satan will “doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men†(Revelation 13:13). He does this right in the sight of men! This is very deceptive is it not?
Jesus is returning to the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 1:1-4, Acts 1:11-12) and he is bringing many of those who passed on before us with him. Once again this leaves absolutely no room for a rapture my friends. Quite the contrary, our job is going to be to prophesy against the false messiah, Satan (Luke 21:12-18).