the rapture???

[for_his_glory]

All of Matthew 24 preceding when the Christians were warned to leave. Those who pierced him saw the judgement of God for crucifying Christ. After verse 31, no more great tribulation described. Jesus have more detail in Revelation. But his second coming has not occurred yet. The kingdoms of this world are becoming the kingdoms of our Lord.

There are God's judgements found throughout the Bible that have fallen on the enemy and during the sounding of the first six trumpets are more judgements against the enemy clear up to the time they are made the footstool of Christ. There have been many abominations and the last one will be the son of perdition taking his seat on the very Temple Mount of God and that is what we are to flee from so we are not forced into taking the mark of this beast out of the earth.

When Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives talking to His disciples that day in Matthew 24 there were no Christians at that time but only the Israelites/Jews as the day of Pentecost had not yet happened. The disciples asked Him three questions: Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Did the world end in 70AD.........no, so these were all future events. Even the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD

 

[Marilyn C]

"Then if anyone tells you, 'Look, here is the Messiah,' or 'There he is,' don't believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones. See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.

"So if someone tells you, 'Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,' don't bother to go and look. Or, 'Look, he is hiding here,' don't believe it! For as the lightning flashes in the east and shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near. Immediately after the anguish of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will give no light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken."
~Matthew 24:23-28 NLT

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died[h] will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.
~1 Thessalonians 4: 16 - 17 NLT

So. I was always taught that the rapture would happen, and then the tribulation, and then Jesus would return. But these verses would seem to indicate otherwise.
If, when we go to be with Jesus, Jesus will return, why would He return a second time after the tribulation? Also, the movies about the rapture always showed it as people disappearing, but these verses say that Jesus will be in the sky and everyone will see Him, then we will rise up and go with Him.

Hi evenifigoalone,

Matt. 24 relates to the nation of Israel and the Gentile nations just before the Lord returns in power and great glory with His angelic army. There are the `birth pangs,` (Matt. 24: 4 - 8) and they are just before the tribulation.

`Then they will deliver you up to tribulation...` (Matt. 24: 9)

1 Thess. 5: 3 also talks about `labour pains.` And they also are before the trib, `sudden destruction comes upon THEM.` `Them,` being the unbelieving world. However notice that the brethren are NOT in darkness and that day will NOT overtake the believers.

The Body of Christ will have come to maturity and be taken to the third heaven to rule and reign with Christ on His own throne. (Rev. 3: 21) We will be judging the world system and fallen angels from Christ`s throne in glory. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

 

[Marilyn C]

There are God's judgements found throughout the Bible that have fallen on the enemy and during the sounding of the first six trumpets are more judgements against the enemy clear up to the time they are made the footstool of Christ. There have been many abominations and the last one will be the son of perdition taking his seat on the very Temple Mount of God and that is what we are to flee from so we are not forced into taking the mark of this beast out of the earth.

When Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives talking to His disciples that day in Matthew 24 there were no Christians at that time but only the Israelites/Jews as the day of Pentecost had not yet happened. The disciples asked Him three questions: Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Did the world end in 70AD.........no, so these were all future events. Even the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD

Why does the abomination in the Temple in Jerusalem concern you?

The Body of Christ does not worship in a Jewish Temple.

 

[for_his_glory]

Why does the abomination in the Temple in Jerusalem concern you?

The Body of Christ does not worship in a Jewish Temple.

It should concern all of us as this will be the time in the end of days where the son of perdition will take his seat on the very Temple Mount of God, not a Jewish Temple, but where the Dome of the Rock is sitting as the Muslims will never give this part of the land back to the Jews.

BTW, the son of perdition will not be a Muslim and I don't believe a third Temple will ever be built, but that is another thread.

This beast, being the son of perdition will reign for 3 1/2 years causing all to takes its mark or die a martyr's death for not renouncing Christ in order to follow this beast. If we do not teach others to flee when this starts happening then they could very well be deceived by the lying signs and wonders this beast will display in the sky. But, at the same time we also need to be witnessing Christ to others so they are not taken as a thief in the night.

 

[Marilyn C]

It should concern all of us as this will be the time in the end of days where the son of perdition will take his seat on the very Temple Mount of God, not a Jewish Temple, but where the Dome of the Rock is sitting as the Muslims will never give this part of the land back to the Jews.

BTW, the son of perdition will not be a Muslim and I don't believe a third Temple will ever be built, but that is another thread.

This beast, being the son of perdition will reign for 3 1/2 years causing all to takes its mark or die a martyr's death for not renouncing Christ in order to follow this beast. If we do not teach others to flee when this starts happening then they could very well be deceived by the lying signs and wonders this beast will display in the sky. But, at the same time we also need to be witnessing Christ to others so they are not taken as a thief in the night.

So are you Jewish? What does the Temple in Jerusalem have to do with Christians?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

There are God's judgements found throughout the Bible that have fallen on the enemy and during the sounding of the first six trumpets are more judgements against the enemy clear up to the time they are made the footstool of Christ. There have been many abominations and the last one will be the son of perdition taking his seat on the very Temple Mount of God and that is what we are to flee from so we are not forced into taking the mark of this beast out of the earth.

When Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives talking to His disciples that day in Matthew 24 there were no Christians at that time but only the Israelites/Jews as the day of Pentecost had not yet happened. The disciples asked Him three questions: Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Did the world end in 70AD.........no, so these were all future events. Even the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD

Dear Sister,
You do not understand my viewpoint and so attack a straw man.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Rev 12:1-17

The focus in Revelations would seem to center around Israel only and the nations that come against her for this is how John would recognize it to be since all the nations were not yet developed in his time. Revelations is about all of us, Jew and Gentile, past, present and future that by faith keep Gods commandments. We are Gods witnesses that testify of His mercy and grace as we take His word out into the world to those who have ears to hear.​

Where is Israel in that verse? Please do a word search and find me “Israel.”Jerusalem is mentioned and called “Egypt” and “Sodom” which are not compliments.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You need to search the history on the Apostle John as he was 98 years old while on the isle of Patmos when he wrote these letters to the seven churches in Asia. When the Roman guards set him free he died two years later in Emphasis at the age of 100.

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

John was born in 6AD and after the crucifixion John, taking Mary with him traveled to Emphasis between 38 and 47AD as he lived there the rest of his life establishing the seven churches there.

I did. John was told by Jesus (Rev 10:11) that he personally still has ministry years left. In your view, Jesus, again, didn’t tell his disciple the truth same as “soon” wasn’t soon and that generation didn’t see the fulfillment as he promised it would.

John was exiled under Nero who had Peter and Paul killed around the same time which makes sense. After Nero died he was released being around 60 and still able to work, he did. The evidence for an early dating is very strong, but futurist don’t like it as the history of Josephus matches too closely the description in Revelation.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So are you Jewish? What does the Temple in Jerusalem have to do with Christians?

They need it to be rebuilt just so an abomination can take place in it. The temple needs to be there so that Matthew 24 can be applied to it as well as the temple mentioned in Revelation. The jews need to build it again so it can, again, be destroyed and so Jesus can come in the clouds.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

There are God's judgements found throughout the Bible that have fallen on the enemy and during the sounding of the first six trumpets are more judgements against the enemy clear up to the time they are made the footstool of Christ. There have been many abominations and the last one will be the son of perdition taking his seat on the very Temple Mount of God and that is what we are to flee from so we are not forced into taking the mark of this beast out of the earth.

When Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives talking to His disciples that day in Matthew 24 there were no Christians at that time but only the Israelites/Jews as the day of Pentecost had not yet happened. The disciples asked Him three questions: Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Did the world end in 70AD.........no, so these were all future events. Even the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD

If this man is controlling the earth, where are you fleeing to?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well then please explain what you mean by coming soon. Other than the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD that Jesus told the disciples about that day He sat with them what else has been fulfilled.

Jesus said he’s coming soon, not me. And I told you, he came soon in judgement of Israel for crucifying him and killing all he prophets sent to her as Jesus said.

The whole destruction leading up to the temple demolition is in Matthew 24. It’s not just the temple. “Coming in clouds” means Gods judgement for great evil that wipes out a nation. The description of the blood that flowed matches Revelation. These are different.

And you know, killing all the prophets and murdering The Son of God is a whole lot worse that not becoming a Christian believer. That’s the only evil you charge the world with in your theory. It sounds rather petty. “You reject me so I’m gong to blast you.” In my view God blasts them for murdering all the prophets sent to help them not to mention 100’s of Christians the Jews murdered. That’s not petty.

 

[for_his_glory]

I did. John was told by Jesus (Rev 10:11) that he personally still has ministry years left. In your view, Jesus, again, didn’t tell his disciple the truth same as “soon” wasn’t soon and that generation didn’t see the fulfillment as he promised it would.

John was exiled under Nero who had Peter and Paul killed around the same time which makes sense. After Nero died he was released being around 60 and still able to work, he did. The evidence for an early dating is very strong, but futurist don’t like it as the history of Josephus matches too closely the description in Revelation.

Rev 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Says nothing about having many years left or anything about the word "soon", but that he must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings as this is what he did on the isle of Patmos within the letters he wrote to the seven churches in Asia.

BTW, it was the Roman Emperor Titus Flavius Domitianus that had exiled John to Patmos in 95AD as he was there around 2 years before returning back to Emphasis at the age of 98 where he died two years later.

 

[for_his_glory]

If this man is controlling the earth, where are you fleeing to?

Have you ever heard of the vast wilderness where God has a place prepared for us as He will supply our need.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

 

[for_his_glory]

So are you Jewish? What does the Temple in Jerusalem have to do with Christians?

No I am not Jewish and there will never be a third temple built as the Muslims will never give that part of the land back to the Jews, but like I said this probably needs to be another thread about the temple as I have much to show others about that and it would derail this thread.

 

[for_his_glory]

Dear Sister,
You do not understand my viewpoint and so attack a straw man.

Just because I do not accept your viewpoint does not mean I am attacking you, but trying to discuss our understandings. It's not personal attacks against you.

 

[for_his_glory]

Where is Israel in that verse? Please do a word search and find me “Israel.”Jerusalem is mentioned and called “Egypt” and “Sodom” which are not compliments.

Rev 12 the woman is Israel as in both Jew and Gentile being the body of Christ in the end of days that Satan will try to destroy when he is finally cast out of heaven with his hoard of angels to the earth. Just because it does not say Israel the woman represents the body of Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus said he’s coming soon, not me. And I told you, he came soon in judgement of Israel for crucifying him and killing all he prophets sent to her as Jesus said.

The whole destruction leading up to the temple demolition is in Matthew 24. It’s not just the temple. “Coming in clouds” means Gods judgement for great evil that wipes out a nation. The description of the blood that flowed matches Revelation. These are different.

And you know, killing all the prophets and murdering The Son of God is a whole lot worse that not becoming a Christian believer. That’s the only evil you charge the world with in your theory. It sounds rather petty. “You reject me so I’m gong to blast you.” In my view God blasts them for murdering all the prophets sent to help them not to mention 100’s of Christians the Jews murdered. That’s not petty.

Wow!!! .............Throughout the whole Bible it has been written that Jesus will come soon, but we are all still waiting for that great and terrible day of His return. Great for us who are His own, but terrible for those who have rejected Him. God's judgement is throughout the whole Bible as in the OT God sent judgement destroying the enemy, just as He will when Christ returns.

In 70AD the Jews brought on their own destruction of Jerusalem as they were not obedient to God's commands and the enemy overtook them and the city. This was not God's judgement, but the consequences of their rebellion against God as they went after other god's just like all the other times Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

This is why I ask people to give the scripture references for what they are trying to teach others as you have balled up so many scriptures there to make your point of view.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

They need it to be rebuilt just so an abomination can take place in it. The temple needs to be there so that Matthew 24 can be applied to it as well as the temple mentioned in Revelation. The jews need to build it again so it can, again, be destroyed and so Jesus can come in the clouds.

This is what some believe, I’ve heard them. If this is new to you then you’ve learned something new.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Wow!!! .............Throughout the whole Bible it has been written that Jesus will come soon, but we are all still waiting for that great and terrible day of His return. Great for us who are His own, but terrible for those who have rejected Him. God's judgement is throughout the whole Bible as in the OT God sent judgement destroying the enemy, just as He will when Christ returns.

In 70AD the Jews brought on their own destruction of Jerusalem as they were not obedient to God's commands and the enemy overtook them and the city. This was not God's judgement, but the consequences of their rebellion against God as they went after other god's just like all the other times Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

This is why I ask people to give the scripture references for what they are trying to teach others as you have balled up so many scriptures there to make your point of view.

Actually I read the scriptures understanding the Hebrew ediom which you do not. You think in western concreteness. “Clouds” means cumulus and so a fluffy elevator ride for Jesus.

I also know “soon” means soon and “this generation” means those standing there as Jesus said. Jesus sent the Revelation so his servants would understand. I do and it’s very freeing. No tribulation coming in our lifetime or ever.

I think I’ll move on. You don’t recognize scripture unless the fonts are large and it’s in color and so accuse me of using none. You don’t understand my position but continue to attack a straw man. I actually understand positions I don’t actually believe very well. You seem have difficulties doing so and I have to continually point out these errors. It’s wearing.

 

[for_his_glory]

Actually I read the scriptures understanding the Hebrew ediom which you do not. You think in western concreteness. “Clouds” means cumulus and so a fluffy elevator ride for Jesus.

I also know “soon” means soon and “this generation” means those standing there as Jesus said. Jesus sent the Revelation so his servants would understand. I do and it’s very freeing. No tribulation coming in our lifetime or ever.

I think I’ll move on. You don’t recognize scripture unless the fonts are large and it’s in color and so accuse me of using none. You don’t understand my position but continue to attack a straw man. I actually understand positions I don’t actually believe very well. You seem have difficulties doing so and I have to continually point out these errors. It’s wearing.

Think I too will move on because of your arrogance and rudeness towards me because I do not agree with your views. You have a good day.