the rapture???

[jerry63935]

Hi fhg,

Why Rev. 4: 1 -2?

the church is not mentioned after 3 things must take place after this which i personally see as close to legit there is

 

[Marilyn C]

the church is not mentioned after 3 things must take place after this which i personally see as close to legit there is

Hi jerry,

Actually I do see the `Body of Christ,` (church/called out ones) mentioned during the trib, for they are to judge the world System and fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 1 & 2) They are represented by the 24 Elders.` (Rev. 11: 16 & 17, 19: 4 & 5)

 

[jerry63935]

Actually I do see the `Body of Christ,` (church/called out ones) mentioned during the trib

why would God appoint us to wrath ? things here after is all judgment ya all can go through the great tribulation all you want.. but i aint is this popular dunno.. reckon it just depends on who you ask on what answer you will get

 

[Marilyn C]

why would God appoint us to wrath ? things here after is all judgment ya all can go through the great tribulation all you want.. but i aint is this popular dunno.. reckon it just depends on who you ask on what answer you will get

The Body of Christ will be in glory with the Lord on His own throne, (Rev. 3: 21). As you so rightly said we will not be under God`s wrath.

 

[jerry63935]

The Body of Christ will be in glory with the Lord on His own throne, (Rev. 3: 21). As you so rightly said we will not be under God`s wrath.

that is why i am pre trib . there will tribulation we face .but not the wrath of GOD great trib

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I am not talking about the resurrection of the dead in judgement, but that Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather His own to Him that includes those who have died that are God's own as they will be gathered/swept/caught up to Him.

The verse you quote say the nations are gathered (not swept up) to stand in judgement. That is not at all in the Matthew quote where his messengers gather the elect. That is not the judgement which comes later in Matthew.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I was hitting my head against the bricks because Dorothy Mae kept asking me for scriptures that I gave her about three or four times. That is not an argument, but frustration of the situation. Dorothy and I are good, even if we disagree with each other.

None of those scriptures address the matter being discussed. This you will not see, but I’ve noticed you do this. You’ll throw out tons of scriptures, none of which address the issue. It’s a blind spot that you have. Ive pointed this out in detail where they don’t address the issue, but you refuse to see it. But I know I’m not the only one to experience this.

I think we’re done because the verses you pull don’t address it (they discuss the Resurrection not a gathering of believers.)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

if you say so

No, it’s common sense that says so.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You never gave book, chapter and verse. I will reject the metaphor if it is not proven in scripture.

“And he will send out his angels (messengers)with a loud trumpet (metaphor) call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, (metaphor) from one end of heaven to the other.” You want a scripture with no metaphors or else you don’t believe the obvious. That is not the Resurrection.

Where.................I gave it to you three different times

And I answered. Those verses talk about the Resurrection and judgement. The verse in Matthew does not.

Darby was one of those in the 1800's that preached the false Rapture theory. Why would I follow his false teachings. Everything that I have pointed to is found in the word of God, not man.

There is a problem when someone thinks and says that every idea they teach is in the Bible and they cannot be wrong. What you teach is based on what Darby taught. That you believe there is a rapture IS what came from him. The church didn’t think of a “rapture” before him. His influence on your thinking, you don’t see.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Would you not be curious seeing something that never existed before being built in your town and possibly questioning what that thing is, especially seeing all the different animals and birds of the air being gathered into it? We have to remember that God had never caused it to rain on earth before the flood as He watered the ground by a mist/dew coming up out of the ground, Genesis 2:5 so this would take everyone by surprise, but would also be to late for them, Matthew 24:36-39.

We read in 2 Peter 2:5 Noah was a preacher of righteousness, yet everyone rejected his teachings. I would think seeing something built that no one knew what it was is a sign for something that is going to happen

Nice post! Yes I see your point and it maybe gave Noah a chance to speak although I don’t recall God told him a flood is coming. He was told God was going to destroy mankind, but not how, but I’d have to check. It’s not unlike God to give instructions for today without telling his servant why these particular deeds need to be done, right?

But a man building something is not a sign from God. Anyone could claim what they are doing is a sign. A teaching by what we do? yes. A divine sign? no.

But you got me thinking about why there was no sign. I will ponder this.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I am not talking about the resurrection of the dead in judgement, but that Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather His own to Him that includes those who have died that are God's own as they will be gathered/swept/caught up to Him.

That’s the Rapture as understood commonly today. It does not fit with that verse in Matthew though.

I do know futurism quite well and so understand why this is a necessary part of that eschatology, in light of the tribulation theology. But notice that this verse comes AFTER all those terrible times. The verses and chapters following that have no woes, no wrath, no suffering. That’s all before.

Now this fits in nicely with you post -trib view, and we sort of agree except I think there’s millennia between.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well I would think that the specifics given to Noah in how to build the ark that he nor anyone ever heard of before and then seeing every animal and birds just up and entering it without a man gathering them to it, would be a very big sign of something that could only come from God.

Yes I can see that, but neither Jesus nor God credited that as a sign. Jonah was a sign. Noah’s boat was not in their eyes.

But you’ve got me thinking. Why no sign? Sodom and G. weren’t given a sign either. Must be reasons. That’s off topic so I’ll just mention it.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I never said the Christians will stand with the lost as the sheep and the goats are separated when Christ comes in all His glory and sits on His throne as the sheep stand at His right hand and are told, well done thou good and faithful servant. This is the great White Throne judgement when all the books are opened and everyone judged out of them. Rev 20:11-12.

The Bema seat is that of God's righteous judgement given to Jesus when He comes in all His glory and sits on His throne to judge everyone as He will tell the sheep on His right hand, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:" and to the goats He will say, "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Matthew 25:31-46. Also referenced to John 5:28-29 and John 6:40.

This is off topic but it’s not taught very often that we will stand before Christ and give an answer as to the deeds (choices) done while in the body. Paul was keenly aware of this and wrote of it.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

no sign shall be given we have had all the sign s we need bible prophecy is being fulfilled as we speak .they mystery of inequity is having hay day another mass shooting at 4 th July parade .38Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.” 39 Jesus replied, “A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.… they missed it .
1As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, His disciples came up to Him to point out its buildings. 2“ Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” 3While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”…

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. deception is here. soon Christ will return and take the church out / sigh**** yes i know this will not win me a popularity contest call me a dreamer call me what you want but call me gone

I’ve heard newspaper escatology for over 40 years…”signs that He’s coming” and He didn’t come. That’s because there will be no signs BUT there is a kind of description as to how it might be. We are not there yet.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That’s all you can do? Why can’t you see the Resurrection scripture that’s in plain sight? Why do you insist it’s a rapture no resurrection? Why do you insist a single scripture supports your rapture theology? Why are they gathered? No mention of where they go in Jesus’ teaching in Matthew.

 

[n2thelight]

that is why i am pre trib . there will tribulation we face .but not the wrath of GOD great trib

To be in Christ means that you will not face His wrath, you can be in the middle of a million people who's God's wrath is poured out on and it would not touch one hair on your head .

God's wrath is not directed at those who kept His Word .

He's a consuming fire ,that same fire that destroys the wicked warms the hearts of those whom are His .

You remember the plagues of Egypt ? Those with the blood had no fear of that wrath, although it was all around them .

That's a type

 

[Dorothy Mae]

why would God appoint us to wrath ? things here after is all judgment ya all can go through the great tribulation all you want.. but i aint is this popular dunno.. reckon it just depends on who you ask on what answer you will get

What is interesting is that God has never just quietly taken away the righteous when his wrath is about to be poured out. Jesus warned his followers to leave or else. Noah had to board the boat or else. Lot and family had to go with or else. Revelation itself tells the believers to leave “Babylon” or else. The believers are required to leave of their own free will, a sign of them really believing. They are NEVER whisked out before the trouble starts.

 

[jerry63935]

We are not there yet.

that is obvious were still here. facts are we are one day closer he told is to watch

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jesus Himself informed us that as far as Christians are concerned that there would be no sign whatsoever given as to His return:
Luke 12:40
"Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."

Yet in His detailing the anti-christ assuming world power and establishing a covenant with Israel, Jesus gives clear indication that the future Temple in Jerusalem will already be built and active in the offering of sacrifices.
( Matt.24:15 ).

It is not a mere coincidence that in this thread and in all others on the subject post-trib advocates avoid these specifics, both in terms of the Christian being able to set their watch to the exact day Jesus's coming again, ( which Christ said you could not do), and the emphasis given in both old and new testament to this period being exclusively about the nation Israel in the " time of Jacob's distress" ( Jer.30:7) .
Never in this thread or in any other dealing with the post-trib theory will you find the advocates of it dealing with these scriptural specifics of their own initiative .
They have to be dragged kicking and screaming to deal with these scriptures.
Just search through this thread?
You will find none of it being delt with .
None!
Only when forced or pressed too will they begin their tap dance on these scriptural specifics .
Just as certain portions of the book of Isiah are never read, if not forbidden to be read in Jewish Synagogues today
the post-trib advocates consistantly avoid these vital congruent old & new testament teachings on the tribulation at all costs.
Go ahead and search through this thread or any other on the subject , and you will find them bringing up NONE of it unless pressed against their will to do so.
Anytime you are forced to avoid the Word of God to promote a point you are on the shakiest of ground.
Now let the tap-dancing begin !

 

[for_his_glory]

The verse you quote say the nations are gathered (not swept up) to stand in judgement. That is not at all in the Matthew quote where his messengers gather the elect. That is not the judgement which comes later in Matthew.

I am only talking about Matthew 24:29-31, not Matthew 25:31-33.