The REAL number one problem in Christian theology

[Free]

And on that note, no discussion of RCC doctrine is permitted in Apologetics and Theology anyway.

 

[smaller]

Son, I don't know who you think you are talking to, but I am not a Roman Catholic and I never have been. I think I made my meaning clear: if you deny that Christ is who he says he is, you are not Christian. It has nothing to do with my beliefs, the RCC's beliefs, or anybody on this forum's beliefs. It has to do with common sense. We are not following cleverly devised stories, we are following the Christ Himself.

You keep trying to make this about the church in Rome or about me, and it's not about me.

And I don't know where you got that "equating the Pope to God" thing.

You need to let go of some of your preconceived notions. God will not be impressed that you dislike the Pope or the church.

Just asking. You quickly quoted Aquinas and Augustine.

Don't make more of my observations than what they were. If you're not RCC you could have said so sooner.

 

[reba]

What will it take to get people who do not believe in Christianity to stop posing as Christians?

His return

 

[childeye]

No, Jesus himself said that he came to fulfill the law, not to abolish it. Jason is right.

Please note I said, destroy religion depending on how you define "religion", not destroy the law.

I've never advocated breaking the law, but I would add that Paul called the lawt the beggarly elements. Love not only fullfills the law but transcends it making it obsolete for those in Christ. It is for the sinner to be told to not steal, not murder. Whereas those abiding in love are busy giving charity with a joyful heart, and they are laying down their lives for others. They are far from stealing and murder. So Christ fufills the law in two ways; through loving others in Godly love through the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers and by being the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.

 

[childeye]

His return

Applause unto this perfectly succinct answer. I laughed out loud when I read this. Well said and so true. His light will expose all things hidden in darkness.

 

[Free]

Please note I said, destroy religion depending on how you define "religion", not destroy the law.

I am unaware of any definition of religion that would allow your argument to be true.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Are you trying to say the Christian church has no credibility?

He may not have said or implied that but let me be abundantly clear in affirming my belief that the above statement would be true were it tweaked just a little to read:

THE SO-CALLED CHRISTIAN CHURCH(es) HAVE VERY LITTLE CREDIBILITY!!!

The church is an institution born of men with the initially apparantly good intention on mimicing the Ekklesia built, redeemed, and taken by Jesus in the 1st century. The church's claim that it is (or that any one of them is) a continuation on Earth of the body and bride that Jesus as aready taken for himself is patently false and falls under the microscope of scrutiny.
So though much good in done and at times even taught in churches, let it be known that those institutions are NOT what they claim to be!!

 

[Brother Lawrence]

He may not have said or implied that but let me be abundantly clear in affirming my belief that the above statement would be true were it tweaked just a little to read:

THE SO-CALLED CHRISTIAN CHURCH(es) HAVE VERY LITTLE CREDIBILITY!!!

The church is an institution born of men with the initially apparantly good intention on mimicing the Ekklesia built, redeemed, and taken by Jesus in the 1st century. The church's claim that it is (or that any one of them is) a continuation on Earth of the body and bride that Jesus as aready taken for himself is patently false and falls under the microscope of scrutiny.
So though much good in done and at times even taught in churches, let it be known that those institutions are NOT what they claim to be!!

Personally, I don't think you or smaller know what the Church is, you have proven that much in this post, and smaller continues to prove it with his posts. Hint: the church is not an institution at all.

 

[Brother Lawrence]

Just asking. You quickly quoted Aquinas and Augustine.

Don't make more of my observations than what they were. If you're not RCC you could have said so sooner.

I am well read.

And I could have said so sooner, but I thought I would give you enough rope to see what you were going to do with it.

 

[Brother Lawrence]

It is for the sinner to be told to not steal, not murder. Whereas those abiding in love are busy giving charity with a joyful heart, and they are laying down their lives for others. They are far from stealing and murder. So Christ fufills the law in two ways; through loving others in Godly love through the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers and by being the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.

I think you are deluded, childeye. We are as close to grevious sin as any non-believer, and any day you can pass without sin is one you have to thank God for. I am particularly bad about stealing time and money from my employer, for example, not giving him a day's work for a day's pay.

And 1 John 3:15 tells us that "Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him."

Yet I see plenty of Catholic hate right here on this forum, from people who think they are doing God's will.

 

[jasoncran]

yes, to say that we christians are any better then the militiant athiest who hates god or the idea of any religion is total misunderstand of what christ did for us. we are most unworthy of his mercy.

i get reminded daily of how weak and carnal i am.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Personally, I don't think you or smaller know what the Church is, you have proven that much in this post, and smaller continues to prove it with his posts. Hint: the church is not an institution at all.

BL, you force me to be blunt, so here goes. It is you and those who have subscribed to the tenets of mainstream christendom who have it confused. The basis for what most believe about the church come from what the church teaches and THEN with the church-given preconceptions imbeded in mind both consciously as well as on a subconscious level the parishioner uses what scripture he or she can find not to discover truth, but rather to support what it is they already believe, want to believe, or have been taught.

As far as what the Church is, you may in fact be better qualified to define it than I since it appears that you are a stunch member of one of the many thousands that put forth their own brand of doctrine LOOSELY derived from the scriptures. Virtually ALL of them make the claim that they are the "gateway" that individuals must go through or betteryet the "vessel" that one must get in so that the individual can get to God and the blessings promised to those who belong to God's Anointed One. Such doctrine in light of what is actually taught in scripture is both borderline idolatrous and blasphemous against the message of scripture.

Now instead of me continuing on what the church is or claims, let's consider reality as layed out by scripture so that what the so called church can be seen in scripture's light thus showing the masses what it is not!

A. The Church is NOT what Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 18:16 despite the fact the translators decided or were prompted to use the word 'church' in the passage.
B. The Church does not exhibit signs of being filled with God's Holy Breath any more than any other benevolent organization that exists.
C. The Church is divided, what Jesus established in both indivisible and invulnerable to curse of sin and death.
D. The Church is not in Heaven.
E. The Church began AFTER the time of Jesus fulfilling what he promised and his apostles had no part in the formation of the "early church".
F. The Church is not spoken of in the Bible directly.
G. The word "church" has a different meaning than the words Jesus and his envoys used to describe what Jesus had established.

 

[darrell]

A. The Church is NOT what Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 18:16 despite the fact the translators decided or were prompted to use the word 'church' in the passage.
B. The Church does not exhibit signs of being filled with God's Holy Breath any more than any other benevolent organization that exists.
C. The Church is divided, what Jesus established in both indivisible and invulnerable to curse of sin and death.
D. The Church is not in Heaven.
E. The Church began AFTER the time of Jesus fulfilling what he promised and his apostles had no part in the formation of the "early church".
F. The Church is not spoken of in the Bible directly.
G. The word "church" has a different meaning than the words Jesus and his envoys used to describe what Jesus had established.

That's quite some claim. Now how about some documentation to back it up? Otherwise it's just baseless argument.

 

[childeye]

I am unaware of any definition of religion that would allow your argument to be true.

An image of God made by men.

 

[Free]

An image of God made by men.

How is that a definition of religion?

 

[childeye]

sigh. no christianity is judiasm for the gentile. all visions of God were of the messiah. no man hath seen god the father at any time. moses didnt see the father nor did isaih and the prophets.

"for if ye knew moses ye would know me for he spoke of me" christianity is a contuation of judaism

one of the names of our lord is the good shepard, that name comes from the word el-shaddai which is linked by numerology in the talmud from oral traditions prior to christ to malachi YHWH. angel unto the lord a christophone. therefore if you gentiles are grafted into a most jewish faith.

the name jesus is greek for yeshua(yahweh saves) so how can it be that the hebrews had it last?

The Jews are the only people who exist as both a religion and an ethnicity. According to their religion they exist to bring forth the Messiah, and their rejection of the Messiah was in part necessary so that the rest of the world would receive him. Judaism is over, as you notice the temple is destroyed and there is only one place according to Mosaic Law that sacrifice can be accepted. You've done your job and thank you by the way or rather thank God for you. My deepest respects.

 

[childeye]

How is that a definition of religion?

Religion is the belief in God and all that it entails, yet there are many different religions and only one God. Therefore the only conclusion that can be made is not all these religions actually know Who or how God is since they do not agree. Hence they are men's images of God. The Christ is the True Image of God sent by God. Hence I said it could be said Christ came to end all religions.

 

[Free]

Religion is the belief in God and all that entails, yet there are many different religions and only one God. Therefore the only conclusion that can be made is not all these religions actually know Who or how God is since they do not agree. Hence they are men's images of God.

But in the context the discussion was about Christianity and Judaism. So why confuse the matter by bringing in your own definition that doesn't really pertain?

 

[childeye]

But in the context the discussion was about Christianity and Judaism. So why confuse the matter by bringing in your own definition that doesn't really pertain?

How does the coming of the Christ the True Image of God not pertain to Judaism, or all religions for that matter? It is salvation unto mankind of which regardless of religion we all are a part of. Am I violating this thread by answering your questions?

 

[jasoncran]

The Jews are the only people who exist as both a religion and an ethnicity. According to their religion they exist to bring forth the Messiah, and their rejection of the Messiah was in part necessary so that the rest of the world would receive him. Judaism is over, as you notice the temple is destroyed and there is only one place according to Mosaic Law that sacrifice can be accepted. You've done your job and thank you by the way or rather thank God for you. My deepest respects.

you are wrong,we are grafted in the jewish faith.our very bible is written from a very jewish perspective!

that is what the whole argument over revalation is about.,proper understanding of jewish thoughts as they original twelve were all jews not gentiles.

sadly you make the mistake of many a churches today. its the gentiles now not the jews.no we are doing what they should have when we come in to the plan. judaism while not we we do but if you really read the ot and what the nt says they mirror each other.paul quotes the ot all day long and its expanded upon when he talks about it.
our God isnt a gentile god but a jewish god. to whom did he reveal himself the most to in the ot? the isrealites! yes the gentiles aka noahides,ie nahor,abel, seth , enoch were used but God made a nation from abraham. and used that nation just as you said.,but your statement doesnt negate what the jews did FIRST.