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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The reason you cant lose your salvation is?.....
- Thread starter Kidron
- Start date
Sorry JLB I meant no offense. Just from what I read from your posts that is what I gather.
I see you post that we could lose salvation then you post that you ASSURE new Christians of Gods Grace. To ME, Me personally that says that Gods Grace is not for sure in your eyes.
I personally don't believe that you think Gods Grace is Sure. I get that from what you write. I could be wrong, but from what I have read that is what I have gathered so far. So far you have not written anything that would change my mind. Maybe we will get that straight someday.
But my own personal conclusion is that you do not believe Gods Grace is Sure. I get that from what you write. It is not a personal attack and I could be wrong. Maybe others see things differently but the way I interpret what you write it is my own personal opinion.
John 10:28–30 (NASB95)
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 “I and the Father are one.”
Not,"they might not perish" or " they probably won't perish." It is actually a double negative and reads more like this...." They will never, no not ever perish."
If we believe that another bible verse says the believer can perish somehow we have a contradiction of John 10:28
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chessman
Member
To fully grasp what Paul’s saying one cannot just read this one verse or chapter for that matter.
“No condemnation echoes the conclusion stated in 5:1 (“Therefore … we have peace with God”) and underscores the stunning implications of the gospel first introduced in 1:16–17.”
This comes from the ESV’s Study notes (so take it for what it’s worth). But I like (agree with) the ESV's Study notes introducing Chapter 8. It highlights many things. But broadly speaking, one thing it highlights is that picking one verse out of Romans (pretty much any chapter really) is a bad idea. Paul's logical flow and extended discussions/topics (in this case what does he mean by “therefore now no condemnation”) spans multiple chapters and is introduce then re-introduce later and conclusions are made concerning his topic(s) sometimes multiple chapters later. Paul was no slouch when it comes to a logical flowing argument. But brevity wasn’t considered that important evidently. Sometimes, the things he means to say just simply require long posts. Personally, I’m glad he spent to the time/effort.
Therefore indicates that Paul is stating an important summary and conclusion related to his preceding argument. The “therefore” is based first on the exclamation of victory that comes “through Jesus Christ our Lord” (7:23–25), which in turn is linked back to 7:6, where the idea of the “new life of the Spirit” is first mentioned. But more broadly Paul seems to be recalling his whole argument about salvation in Christ from 3:21–5:21. The now in 8:1 matches the “now” in 7:6, showing that the new era of redemptive history has “now” been inaugurated by Christ Jesus for those who are “now” in right standing before God because they are united with Christ. But the summary relates further to the whole argument presented in chs. 3, 4, and 5. No condemnation echoes the conclusion stated in 5:1 (“Therefore … we have peace with God”) and underscores the stunning implications of the gospel first introduced in 1:16–17. As Paul immediately goes on to explain, there is “no condemnation” for the Christian because God has condemned sin in the flesh by sending his own Son (8:3) to pay the penalty for sin through his death on the cross. The following verses then show that indwelling sin is overcome through the power of the indwelling Spirit, with ten references to the Spirit in vv. 4–11.
“The following verses then show that indwelling sin is overcome through the power of the indwelling Spirit” Hmm??? I wonder if they (the ESV committee) are right? I think they are.
You grace preachers always leave the best part of the verse, I mean the prominent par
Verse 27 of John 10 says My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And then comes the eternal life.
First you need to hear the voice of the lord and make a relationship with the Lord and continually follow him and then only verse from 28-30 which you quoted are applicable
jonahmano,
We are not talking about becoming a sheep. We are talking about ones who are already sheep and stay sheep.
We are talking about people who are already past verse 27 in John 10. That is why John 10:28 was quoted.
Jethro Bodine
Member
They already know that you can't be a hypocrite and still be saved. They will remind YOU of that. Trust me. To them it is ludicrous to think you can say you are, or were, one thing, and can still be that without actually being it now.
So, since it never comes up, because they already know the answer to that, I have to say, 'no', I have never had to explain to an unbeliever that they can lose a salvation that they don't even have yet.
Is one different than the other? Either you still believe, or you don't. So I guess my answer is 'yes'. I have explained to them that salvation is through believing in Christ.
Unbelievers know all about hypocritical, fallen believers. You don't need to explain to them about the need to be what you say you are. But, ironically, it is many in the church that need that explained to them. Interesting, huh?
Good stuff. Romans 8:1~~There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. Our union with Christ. Position.
“are” is eime in the Greek And it states the absolute status quo existence of the believer. The eternal truth that we always keep on being in union With the Lord Jesus Christ.
That what I'm trying to make the point. To become a sheep is not a one day job as today's grace preachers point. It's an ongoing process. And I'm also talking about those who are already sheep. They need to keep on having fellowship with Jesus, keep on following Him
******************** Jesus Christ himself, said the following ********************
“Whosoever believes in me will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:15
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:16
“He that believes on him is not condemned, but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Jn 3:18
“He that believes the Son has everlasting life, and he that believes not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Jn 3:36
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one that which sees the Son, and believes on him, will have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”Jn 6:40
“Truly I say unto you, he that believes on me, has everlasting life.” Jn 6:47
Have a blessed day brother.
If you can find a post of mine whereby I have stated that "I'm not sure of God's grace", then I will retract it and apologize.
God's grace is not the problem.
The main problem is bad doctrine and a lack of faith on the part of the person which is primarily caused by no relationship or little or no effort on the part of the person to sow or invest into their relationship with God.
Which is a product of bad doctrine.
Here is a saying that is worthy of acceptance -
Show me a man who will not invest in a relationship with his spouse who he can see, and I will show you a man who has a weak relationship with God who he can't see.
JLB
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after theflesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1
This lines up with what Paul taught elsewhere -
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance,emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before , as I have also told you in time past , that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
Condemnation = Not inheriting the Kingdom of God.
JLB
I think we are not communicating very well.
I said "weak relationship".
I did not say "weak believer".
You did the same thing in the last post where you accused me of saying I'm not sure of Gods grace.
So I tried to reassure you God's Grace is not the problem.
If you can find a post of mine whereby I have stated that "I'm not sure of God's grace", then I will retract it and apologize.
God's grace is not the problem.
The main problem is bad doctrine and a lack of faith on the part of the person which is primarily caused by no relationship or little or no effort on the part of the person to sow or invest into their relationship with God.
Which is a product of bad doctrine.
Here is a saying that is worthy of acceptance -
Show me a man who will not invest in a relationship with his spouse who he can see, and I will show you a man who has a weak relationship with God who he can't see.
JLB
Do you believe God wants us to invest and sow into, and put forth effort into our relationship with Him?
Do you believe our spouse wants us to invest in and put forth effort into our marriage relationship?
JLB
chessman
Member
I followed you and agree with you right up to the point where you started talking about what the primary cause of a bad relationship with God is. “Bad doctrine”??? Really? I’d think sin is the primary cause of a bad relationship with God. At times, I’ve even thought about stopping by my local RCC church and doing a little confessing there myself.
I’m including in my agreement the part that I've never seen you discount Grace and/or its power too. I thought that was a bit unfair toward your position as well. But then again, I kind of see his point as well (kind-of).
But anyway, (and it's a big but) my OSAS doctrine places the primacy of relationship squarely between a Christian and the Holy Spirit indwelling within them. Not on any external doctrine (including mine) or with other people (including my wife).
I’ve never actually seen a cogent/evidential response from the anti-OSAS side as to why Paul (who got the idea from God of course, Luke 11:13, 12:12) would say what he did here:
For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
(2 Corinthians 1:20-22 ESV)
(2 Corinthians 1:20-22 ESV)
Something about Tupperware and an earthly king’s seal being breakable, as I recall. Which misses Paul’s point entirely in my opinion. Or else, the balancing act thing that must be applied to Scripture, as if one Scripture pulls down and one pulls up and it’s our job to balance them out in the middle.
Yes, sin would defiantly be the reason people would bring forth bad doctrine.
Maybe to explain away why we can lose our salvation in light of the countless scriptures that warn us to the contrary.
The bible calls it walking in darkness as well as "holding the truth in unrighteousness".
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven againstall ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Romans 1:18
You make a good point brother.
JLB