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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The reason you cant lose your salvation is?.....
- Thread starter Kidron
- Start date
Thus says the Lord: "Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool. Where is the house that you will build Me? And where is the place of My rest? Isaiah 66:1
and again -
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. Zechariah 14:4
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
It depends on how you interpret the predestination passages.
If you interpret them in light of the full context and counsel of the Bible it is the person's prerogative as to whether or not they will participate in, and continue to participate in God's plan "to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds" (Titus 2:14 NASB).
Why does Paul counsel the believers at the Roman church to stand fast in God's kindness or be cut off from the tree if it's not man's decision whether he will do that, or not do that? That's really the big question I need OSAS to answer for me. Why the many warnings concerning salvation to not do what some OSAS teachings say you can't do anyway, and what other OSAS teachings say doesn't matter toward salvation anyway? In those teachings I'm only left with one alternative--that the passages are written to unbelievers, those who never believed. But the passages say they are written to believers.
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6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.Jude 6-7
Angels who are called sons of God are reserved in chains to suffer everlasting fire.
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4
These angels were cast down to hell... making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
The example for us is sons of God, can lose there place with God and be cast into hell, because of sexual immorality.
Paul reiterates this truth for us by using old testament types.
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,.. Just because we are baptized does not mean we can not lose our salvation.
And do not become idolaters as were some of them... as Paul writes in this same letter - 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Paul is writing to the Church in Corinth and exhorting them not to BECOME idolaters...
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God...
Let's heed what the scriptures teach us and turn away from any of these things that may plague us, and teach others as well, rather than disputing what the scriptures clearly say.
JLB
chessman
Member
You post the actual Text, then turn right around and ... the part out that conflicts with your ideas. You interpret the Text into text that you desire!
2 Peter 2:6 if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them (the cites, the ancient world and the angels that sinned) examples of what is going to happen to the ungodly; [not examples of those with His promise]
Was Sodom/Gomorrah once called righteous cities? No! The righteous lot was rescued out of that unrighteousness (via The pre-incarnate Lord). That's Peter's point.
Genesis 13:13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked, great sinners against the Lord.
Was "the ancient world" of Noah's day once a righteous world? No. The herald of righteousness (Noah) was preserved (via the ark) out of a world full of unrighteousness. That's Peter's point.
Genesis 6:11-12 Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence. And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.
Were these angels that sinned His angels or Satan's? I think Satan's. Were they ever called righteous, either way? No. Their example was that God chained them and keeps them for a day of judgment, yet to come. This happens to unrighteous men as well (all of them) when they die. And they ALL (not just ALL but one or two) are judged on that day.
And we must not forget (or ignore) Peter's opening and closing remarks to these people. These people were called righteous in Christ (and were being rescued by Him just like Lot and Noah were):
2 Peter 1:1-4:To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.
... (Examples in Chapter 2)
2 Peter 3:13, 15 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation,
... (Examples in Chapter 2)
2 Peter 3:13, 15 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation,
The Lord is gracious and compassionate, ready to restore and heal and save.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:17-19
He is full of Grace and Truth.
As we walk in the crucified life, He will express this Grace and Truth out of each of us.
Both Grace and Truth.
What is the Truth?
he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
What is Grace?
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world.
You can see this balance weave its way through the scriptures, so that it appears to some that the bible contradicts itself.
We are called to walk, not looking to the right hand or the left.
We are called to walk the path of righteousness down the middle...
We don't know the Way to walk this path, that is why... He leads us in the paths of righteousness for His Name sake.
He alone is the Way...
He alone can walk this path of life, this path of righteousness through us as we yield to the crucified life...
As we walk in His presence, that is to say walk before Him, we will be blameless...
Our effort or work is to learn the way of dwelling in the secret place...
To labor to enter His Rest.
To learn the way of walking and living in the Spirit, as Christ is formed in us.
We are called to be conformed to the Image of God's son.
We are called to to grow up into Him, even the fullness and the stature and measure of the complete and mature Son of God, that we can do the works that He did...
JLB
Yes brother, that is the point.
That is my point.
... that is the point that Peter makes.
That is the example.
That is why these two truths are tied together. Angels and those at Sodom and Gomorrah.
That is why I used this example.
The unrighteous one's at Sodom and Gomorrah are now associated with those who are called sons of God [angels].
There is no difference, because the both have been declared unrighteous and both now share the same fate...
... suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Thank God you now see this!
Now you can use your talents to teach the truth, rather than dispute it.
JLB
chessman
Member
Yes, I know that is why you used that example. Thank you for pointing me to the truth in God's Word through your error in teaching about it. You realize that God's Word says the men of Sodom were wicked, right?
"Associated with those who are called sons of God [angels]"?????
Scared to say what you really mean by "associated"? It's banned on this Forum, you know.
Fortunately posting the fact that God's Word says "the men" of Sodom were wicked and "the flesh" of Noah's day is not banned. Ignored by some, but God's Word none the less.
And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 6-7
Angels who are sons of God and the men of Sodom and Gomorrah BOTH are now examples of sexual immorality and are BOTH set for as an example of eternal fire.
and again -
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-6
if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell... and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly...
Both Jude and Peter say the same things and associate the angels with those of Sodom and Gomorrah as an example.
JLB
Why sin in the first place and become lost from that state of grace, needing to be born again? Do people not regard hell as a determinant, or is it the fact oh yeah Father, I'll just lie, or commit adultery with that woman because I'll just ask forgiveness and all is right so that grace may abound?
I will ask if you believe the sins you commit are accidental or on purpose, and if on purpose why do you; do you enjoy sinning? As Paul said in Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season. I will add to that; can that sin you enjoy be for one moment of indiscretion. Do you not know that whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Oh my . . . .
BTW - I just thought of this, maybe you can sell all you have, give it to the poor, and just follow Jesus; He didn't sin.
Go and sin no more.
Why sin in the first place and become lost from that state of grace, needing to be born again? Do people not regard hell as a determinant, or is it the fact oh yeah Father, I'll just lie, or commit adultery with that woman because I'll just ask forgiveness and all is right so that grace may abound?
I will ask if you believe the sins you commit are accidental or on purpose, and if on purpose why do you; do you enjoy sinning? As Paul said in Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season. I will add to that; can that sin you enjoy be for one moment of indiscretion. Do you not know that whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Oh my . . . .
Go and sin no more.
Thanks for the word Brother.
JLB
Please don't change the subject.
And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 6-7
Angels who are sons of God and the men of Sodom and Gomorrah BOTH are now examples of sexual immorality and are BOTH set for as an example of eternal fire.
and again -
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-6
if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell... and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly...
Both Jude and Peter say the same things and associate the angels with those of Sodom and Gomorrah as an example.
JLB
Were these two groups redeemed to begin with? To me your linking both the angels and Sodom are more in need of salvation if a created angel is to be redeemed. Again they should not have sinned on purpose just as we should not. Go and sin no more; you seemed to just blow me off as to an answer on a previous post and so do you think one sin did these angels and men to everlasting fire?
Yes
I answered your question.
Pease answer mine.
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4
Angels who are declared to be sons of God, were cast down to the bottom of Hell and chained.
I ask you honestly to answer from your heart...
If God were to allow you to visit one of these angels down in hell, what do you suppose they would say to you about sexual immorality?
JLB