the removal the church isnt supportable

[jasoncran]

now then keep these verse in mind since there are two type of saints

how many ressurections?

rev 20:6

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

4

and mat 16:18-19

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

so god will override men's desire to do evil and there wont be murder of the righteous in this millennium?the saints here will believe in who and do what for salvation?

 

[Grappler]

then I guess im not a new creature since im well still have this body of death nor saved then until I die then eh?



ephesians 2:6 that is in past tense in kjv

and others http://bible.cc/ephesians/2-6.htm

the power of prayer and the authority we have Now over the devil.

Lol..you obviously don't understand allegorical language or symbolism...So you are sitting with Jesus in heaven? cool they must have the internet there.

 

[Grappler]

No need to be sorry; God forgives you.

Now if you're willing to go down my road a bit I'll ask if Revelation 4:1 is prior to the tribulation or not? Revelation 4:2 shows Jesus receiving His own throne and I say it is before the events of Daniel 9:27.
:waving

Is Revelation 4:1 prior to the tribulation?? Uh..dude John had this Revelation and was told to come up hither about 2000 years ago give or take a few years. So yeah it was WAY before the tirbulation since the tribulation hasn't happened yet. Just remember what Jesus said....he said AFTER.

 

[jasoncran]

Lol..you obviously don't understand allegorical language or symbolism...So you are sitting with Jesus in heaven? cool they must have the internet there.

I didn't say that.we have been given all that he has given now. if the church doesn't do its job what happens to the nations? they do what? become more evil that verse alludes to the gospel. with what wordview did the puritans form give this nations and also the idea of the government securing the right from what diety?

yet we can clearly see the impact America's Christianity has had on the world that is what im talking about
tell me then why do you wait to reign then since the promise is for those only in the trib., that are beheaded and refused to take the mark? if you die today then where are you in that promise. where you beheaded? when did the mark come?

 

[Grappler]

No need to be sorry; God forgives you.

Now if you're willing to go down my road a bit I'll ask if Revelation 4:1 is prior to the tribulation or not? Revelation 4:2 shows Jesus receiving His own throne and I say it is before the events of Daniel 9:27.
:waving

It never ceases to amaze and amuse me at the scriptural gymnastics that pre-tribbers will perform in order to somehow prove that their belief is true. I have been waiting for years for one to show me just scripture that plainly says Jesus is coming back to get Christians before or pre the tribulations of the last days of this age. :yes

 

[Eugene]

It never ceases to amaze and amuse me at the scriptural gymnastics that pre-tribbers will perform in order to somehow prove that their belief is true. I have been waiting for years for one to show me just scripture that plainly says Jesus is coming back to get Christians before or pre the tribulations of the last days of this age. :yes

Revelation 3:10, Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Next there is the great multitude of Revelation 7:13-14 "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." They didn't remain until the end of the tribulation, and yet are before the throne.

Revelation 12:5 shows the "Man child" caught up to God. "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

 

[Sinthesis]

I don't believe in the millennium. im amil why? because we reign now with Christ and seated in the heavenlies. I don't need to wait for a city to reign over in order to be in the kingdom.

I believe as you concerning the reign with Christ and our seating in the heavenlies, but I see it as the heavenly city and kingdom are now on earth thus we are in the millennium.

 

[Grappler]

I didn't say that.we have been given all that he has given now. if the church doesn't do its job what happens to the nations? they do what? become more evil that verse alludes to the gospel. with what wordview did the puritans form give this nations and also the idea of the government securing the right from what diety?

yet we can clearly see the impact America's Christianity has had on the world that is what im talking about
tell me then why do you wait to reign then since the promise is for those only in the trib., that are beheaded and refused to take the mark? if you die today then where are you in that promise. where you beheaded? when did the mark come?

Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth.

 

[Grappler]

I believe as you concerning the reign with Christ and our seating in the heavenlies, but I see it as the heavenly city and kingdom are now on earth thus we are in the millenium.

We are in the millenium? Wow. What year did the millenium start? so then i can add 1000 years to it and know when it will be over.

 

[jasoncran]

of course that has yet to happen. whom will we reign over then if we all have cities and are kings?oh a study and kilgs and queens and also the idea of the perfection that was before the fall.do you think men will need government after the restoration?

 

[Grappler]

Revelation 3:10, Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Next there is the great multitude of Revelation 7:13-14 "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." They didn't remain until the end of the tribulation, and yet are before the throne.

Revelation 12:5 shows the "Man child" caught up to God. "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Nope. Nothing about a pre-tribulation rapture there either. God is able to keep us from danger in all kinds of matters without removing us from planet Earth. Besides Revelation 3:10 is addressed to the church of Philadelphia in Asia Minor..do you belong to that church? I would like to refer you to the recorded words of Jesus in John 1715 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. 20 “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, Are the recorded words of Jesus enough to convince you that we are not going to be removed from the earth?? And Jesus also made it clear that he was not only praying to the Father for believers in his day but for those who will believe which means future believers as well.

 

[Grappler]

of course that has yet to happen. whom will we reign over then if we all have cities and are kings?oh a study and kilgs and queens and also the idea of the perfection that was before the fall.do you think men will need government after the restoration?

Dude your posts are difficult to read. Give me a chance to cipher this one out or could you help me out a little?

 

[jasoncran]

will men after Christ return and when he hands over the throne to father need laws?did it ever occur to you that when we prove ourselves faithful that we are elevated more responsibility for Christ? thus having authority.the problem for millenialist that they forget that there will be two ressurections for the righteous then, when only one is mentioned.

 

[Grappler]

Revelation 3:10, Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Next there is the great multitude of Revelation 7:13-14 "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." They didn't remain until the end of the tribulation, and yet are before the throne.

Revelation 12:5 shows the "Man child" caught up to God. "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Uh i don't know if you are aware of this but Revelation 7:13-14 is a verse that i like to use to disprove a pre-trib. escape...so thanks for posting that one.lol And you even highlighted my favorite part! They came out of the great tribulation yes they were martyred during the great tribulation so once again no pre-trib. there either. No they didn' remain until the end of the tribulation because they were killed DURING the tribulation...so where is your pre-trib. rapture??

 

[Grappler]

will men after Christ return and when he hands over the throne to father need laws?did it ever occur to you that when we prove ourselves faithful that we are elevated more responsibility for Christ? thus having authority.the problem for millenialist that they forget that there will be two ressurections for the righteous then, when only one is mentioned.

Are you "posting" to me? If you are please get someone else to explain what you are saying. I am not trying to be rude...i really can't follow you very well.

 

[jasoncran]

sheesh, when its all said and down and all revalation is fulfilled what will be of these cities you look for to reign? whom will be your serveants? whom will you be above?sinners?

 

[Grappler]

sheesh, when its all said and down and all revalation is fulfilled what will be of these cities you look for to reign? whom will be your serveants? whom will you be above?sinners?

Ok i think i understand what you are saying. You don't believe that Jesus is going to come back like he said and rule this earth...is that it? You don't think he will literally return and rule this very earth with a rod of iron. Hmm. I don't agree. Because scripture is clear that he is literally coming back to rule this very Earth. Now when he returns is he going to rule a world where there are also sinners? I am not so sure about that. If it were not for Revelation where John said that at the end of the 1000 year reign Satan will be released to deceive again i would not believe it either. Revelation is the only place in scripture that implies that when Jesus returns and sets up his kingdom that there will be sinners present. Sort of a "gray" area there....but i will say this about Revelation...it should not take precedence over the Gospels or the Epistles of Paul...there is too much symbolism and difficulties involved with Revelation for anyone to fully understand it.

 

[Sinthesis]

We are in the millenium? Wow. What year did the millenium start? so then i can add 1000 years to it and know when it will be over.

That is not how it works. If you are in Christ, then you are in the heavenly city as well as the millennium; and it will never end. If you are not in Christ, then you are not party to the everlasting change Christ's work wrought, thus you are not in the millennium and helpless prey for Satan.

 

[Grappler]

That is not how it works. If you are in Christ, then you are in the heavenly city as well as the millennium; and it will never end. If you are not in Christ, then you are not party to the everlasting change Christ's work wrought, thus you are not in the millennium and helpless prey for Satan.

You said that is not how IT works...and this IT is your philosophy..IT is not scriptural. IT sounds very much like Preterism that you are talking about. And if IT is Preterism that you are talking about then you are not even consistent within that belief system because according to the Preterists that i have spoken with Satan is now in the lake of fire screaming for mercy. So how can anyone be helpless prey to that being?lol

 

[jasoncran]

14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.
16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering.
17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him

theres a myriad of verses like these in the tanach. when did the lord loose the control of the world? he never did.while I don't pretend to understand it all.

if theres sinners in the thousands years then what about the righteous? when is there resurrection? are they not part of the church? will they get a city?