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Is there some connection here to the topic?I thank you all for your comments. :biglol
Sorry, but this is good; tell me all you know. :toofunny
The reason the so-called Rapture has been turned into a nonsensical fantasy is because it has been seen through the wisdom of "natural man" and the "carnal eyes" of EARTHLY thinking religious men (THE EARTH), rather than through spiritual eyes of a spiritual mind (HEAVEN). The secular, godless realm of humanity (THE SEA) sees any and all of this talk as being foolishness.
These days, Christendom is so lost that, to them, Jesus has become a disembodied spirit floating around somewhere, waiting to take us to a floating city in the sky. The Plan of God is not about an escape out of this world, it is about the transformation of mankind from a creature of the dust into a creature of spirit life.
I thank you all for your comments. :biglol
Sorry, but this is good; tell me all you know. :toofunny
I would not disagree with any of your observations. As to the final construct, I might see it somewhat differently.
We know for example that the renewal or the 'final product' so to speak entails putting off of the dishonor, corruption, weakness and the natural body that we all have for a fact presently.
We also know that the creation itself still suffers from similar corruption:
Romans 8:
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
We also know that there will be no more death, which also implies that death that exists in creation itself, the primary cause of the groaning and pain, will pass off and away.
This to me implies a required renewal of the earth where these matters no longer exist:
Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
It is just as likely that there will be both removal and renewal for the creation itself. And that the wicked will remain for a cleansing of fire.
Jeremiah 51:
43 Her cities are a desolation, a dry land, and a wilderness, a land wherein no man dwelleth, neither doth any son of man pass thereby.
44 And I will punish Bel in Babylon, and I will bring forth out of his mouth that which he hath swallowed up: and the nations shall not flow together any more unto him: yea, the wall of Babylon shall fall.
45 My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the Lord.
2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
May not be the place to hang out while that is going on?
That being said, I totally agree with you on the 'separation' matters being 'personal' and to the 'flesh/carnal' man, though the real matters behind that I would see as the wickedness of Satan in the hearts of men. It does not pay me to blame the blinded themselves where there is a cause that is not them that is upon them.
It is that CAUSE that is the fulcrum of final division, of Revelation, of destruction, of required renewal.
Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
s
Good morning. The Church is going to heaven; those unbelievers of the world will remain. We see the evidence of them in heaven in Revelation 4:4, 4:6, 7:9, and 14:1. God's throne is in heaven.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
I will just say that there are some alive that will be caught up according to the following scripture.Good morning to you as well
Revelation 7:10 "And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."
In other words, these great numbers of people, came from all races and nations and languages on the face of the earth, and each and every one of them have been saved.
This is not part of the "rapture" as many teachers teach. No; but it is the people who have died in the Lord's work, and have gone to be with Him. It is my father who died twelve years age, and my uncle Ron who has passed on; It's my grandmother Knecht, who passed on when I was a child, and every other saint of God, who lived a life on this earth, and died and went to be with the Lord; from any century in this earth age. Those are the ones John sees standing before the Lord in their white robes, washed in the blood of the Lamb, and their sins made white as snow.
Though we laid their fleshly bodies in the ground, Praise God their souls went immediately to be with the Father. [Ecclesiastes 12:7] From Adam and Eve to this present time, all these saints of God are now angelic soul beings; though they sinned in the flesh, each has repented of their sins, and God is faithful and just to forgive all those sins, and make them white and pure as snow.
I don't see a rapture in any of those verses.....Christ comes here,only those who have died are in heaven,thats how He brings them here
I will just say that there are some alive that will be caught up according to the following scripture.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
What is the order? The dead first, and them those that are alive. 1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order (Such as a rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. When is Jesus' coming?
Revelation Chapters Two and Three show the judgment of the Church. There are five of these churches that are told to repent, and two are commended; Smyrna and Philadelphia. These two have crowns, and one is told to be faithful unto death and the other to patiently keep the word. Of the first rank Smyrna the dead in Christ, and Philadelphia representing those alive to be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. If you're interested in going further with this just tell me, or debate it. If not that is fine too. God bless you in Jesus' name.
I will just say that there are some alive that will be caught up according to the following scripture.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
What is the order? The dead first, and them those that are alive. 1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order (Such as a rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. When is Jesus' coming?
Revelation Chapters Two and Three show the judgment of the Church. There are five of these churches that are told to repent, and two are commended; Smyrna and Philadelphia. These two have crowns, and one is told to be faithful unto death and the other to patiently keep the word. Of the first rank Smyrna the dead in Christ, and Philadelphia representing those alive to be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. If you're interested in going further with this just tell me, or debate it. If not that is fine too. God bless you in Jesus' name.
Sinthesis said:Given this interpretation, supposing you pass away this evening, what do you believe will happen to your soul since your body didn't made it to the 'rapture'?
I will just say that there are some alive that will be caught up according to the following scripture.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
What is the order? The dead first, and them those that are alive. 1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order (Such as a rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. When is Jesus' coming?
Revelation Chapters Two and Three show the judgment of the Church. There are five of these churches that are told to repent, and two are commended; Smyrna and Philadelphia. These two have crowns, and one is told to be faithful unto death and the other to patiently keep the word. Of the first rank Smyrna the dead in Christ, and Philadelphia representing those alive to be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. If you're interested in going further with this just tell me, or debate it. If not that is fine too. God bless you in Jesus' name.
Eugene said:I will just say that there are some alive that will be caught up according to the following scripture.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Thenwe which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
What is the order? The dead first, and them those that are alive. 1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order (Such as a rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. When is Jesus' coming?
Revelation Chapters Two and Three show the judgment of the Church. There are five of these churches that are told to repent, and two are commended; Smyrna and Philadelphia. These two have crowns, and one is told to be faithful unto death and the other to patiently keep the word. Of the first rank Smyrna the dead in Christ, and Philadelphia representing those alive to be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. If you're interested in going further with this just tell me, or debate it. If not that is fine too. God bless you in Jesus' name.
per matthew 24
in the flood, noah remained on the earth and the wicked were removed.
so it will be when he returns. we will be renewed and the earthed.
Dear n2thelight, we are spreading in so many different directions we're getting nowhere. If you will permit, let’s see if we can dwell on one part of this at a time; we must establish time frames.
Let's note something about the last trump.
1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
There will be death during the millennium. Isaiah 65:20 . . the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
Today we hear graveside sermons: "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?" Look around at the tears; there is still much sting as our enemy death is still with us.
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end (The end of what?), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
My thoughts.
Hey Eugene
I will first try and show why the last trump is the 7th,and we can go from there.........
I Corinthians 15:52 clearly says that the "last trump"will signal the return of Jesus Christ for His saints.
Regardless of what we think that really means, it is nevertheless a fact that this "last trump" does signal the event.
The problem for those who interpret this according to current end-time theories is this: In the Book of Revelation, there are seven seals, the last of which is comprised of seven trumpets.The seventh of these seven trumpets is the last trump. So if we insist upon a timeline in these seals and trumpets, the last trump comes AFTER all of the other events which the seals and trumps represent. So how can Jesus come for His saints BEFORE events like the great tribulation if the last trump occurs AFTER them?
The problem is inescapable. If the last trump is really the last trump, then there aren't any others after it. And if there aren't any others after it, then the return of Christ for His saints the event the last trump announces must come LAST.Everything else, great tribulation included, must come before it.
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In your opinion, when will this occur; pre or post millennium. To me the last trump is describing the end.n2thelight said:I Corinthians 15:52 clearly says that the "last trump" will signal the return of Jesus Christ for His saints.
Regardless of what we think that really means, it is nevertheless a fact that this "last trump" does signal the event.
In your opinion, when will this occur; pre or post millennium. To me the last trump is describing the end.
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies (beast, false prophet, Satan, and death) under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. Prior to this Satan is done away with according to Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Now the seventh angel sounds at the end of the second woe below, and this is during the tribulation, so to me this does not fit the description of the last trump.
Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.