The Trichotomy of Man (part I)

[Mysteryman]

Quote glorydaz: "I'm not the one that's confused about man's spirit.
I realize you think you have this all figured out, MM, but you just can't argue with Scripture. "


Hi gd

I think by now, you should realize that thinking one has it figured out and knowing, is like the opposite of a coin. I say heads, and you say tails.

When you quote the church epistles, the scripture in the church epistles is talking about the Spirit of his Son in our hearts. Not the spirit of man !

I don't argure with scripture, but I will debate your theories. :yes

Scripture interprets itself. But when mankind tries to interpret scripture, it becomes private interpretation. We see way too much of this on the boards.

Then how about we just study the Word and put aside this silly wrangling. I find this is a facinating topic and important to our walk with the Lord. The idea of dividing the soul and spirit is how we become the "spiritual man" that's spoken of in the Bible. Should we not seek to put aside the soulish part that ruled our lives prior to our being saved? Before we can really do that, we have to see that it needs to be done.

BTW, I don't just say, "tails", because you say "heads". I simply share what I see from the Word. When it conflicts with what you say, I speak out. I think that's what we're supposed to be doing on a discussion board. Right?

Hi gd

I know that you are sharing what you think you see from the Word. However, when someone disagrees with you, you then make them feel like they are arguing against scripture, because you just can not be wrong. So by all means, please set aside these childish comments.

Prophecy of the scriptures is of no private interpretation.

Christians are set apart from the rest of the world. In that they have not the Spirit from God in them = Christ in them. But all of mankind has the spirit of man . God talked to mankind in the OT - Spirit to spirit of man. There is no doubt about this. Nor does there seem to be any disagreement with this.

However, when you quote the church epistles and are still claiming that the church epistles are talking about the spirit of man. You could not be further from the truth ! The reason being, is because the church epistles are talking to the body of Christ and not unto the world. All of mankind has the spirit of man -- All ! And when mankind dies, the spirit of man goes back to God who is the giver.

The soul is not the spirit and the spirit is not the soul. The soul goes down to the grave with the dead body. The spirit of man goes back to the giver - God.

The "comforter" , which is Christ in you, remains with you always. John 14:16 - "abide with you forever"

The spirit of man does not abide with us forever !

 

[glorydaz]

Then how about we just study the Word and put aside this silly wrangling. I find this is a facinating topic and important to our walk with the Lord. The idea of dividing the soul and spirit is how we become the "spiritual man" that's spoken of in the Bible. Should we not seek to put aside the soulish part that ruled our lives prior to our being saved? Before we can really do that, we have to see that it needs to be done.

BTW, I don't just say, "tails", because you say "heads". I simply share what I see from the Word. When it conflicts with what you say, I speak out. I think that's what we're supposed to be doing on a discussion board. Right?

Hi gd

I know that you are sharing what you think you see from the Word. However, when someone disagrees with you, you then make them feel like they are arguing against scripture, because you just can not be wrong. So by all means, please set aside these childish comments.

Prophecy of the scriptures is of no private interpretation.

Christians are set apart from the rest of the world. In that they have not the Spirit from God in them = Christ in them. But all of mankind has the spirit of man . God talked to mankind in the OT - Spirit to spirit of man. There is no doubt about this. Nor does there seem to be any disagreement with this.

However, when you quote the church epistles and are still claiming that the church epistles are talking about the spirit of man. You could not be further from the truth ! The reason being, is because the church epistles are talking to the body of Christ and not unto the world. All of mankind has the spirit of man -- All ! And when mankind dies, the spirit of man goes back to God who is the giver.

The soul is not the spirit and the spirit is not the soul. The soul goes down to the grave with the dead body. The spirit of man goes back to the giver - God.

The "comforter" , which is Christ in you, remains with you always. John 14:16 - "abide with you forever"

The spirit of man does not abide with us forever !

Unfortunately, you choose to ignore the verses that say otherwise. Instead you choose to give your own private interpretation and can't even address the proof that's been offered. That pretty much ends any discussion, doesn't it?

 

[Ahuli]

In case you don't know it, many pagan beliefs are based upon the truth.

And that is what I was waiting for. The suggestion that pagans had/have truth. Are you catholic?
If pagans had/have truth, then God did the ones in the Old Testament terrible injustice, and did the same injustice to the Jews who went awhoring after them. Read Hosea, read the prophets, read, read, read. God destroyed them and left them nothing. Not even the smallest pagan figurine. :o


Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Check on a better translation of this. Or do it yourself comparing from the original language. It is a quality feeling to do this yourself.

Ah yes, the pride of man in all it's glory.

No, I am not Catholic...neither was Watchman Nee or Andrew Murray and a host of other believers down through time. Neither was Paul and he knew we have a body, soul, and spirit.

You don't need to tell me to read....your assumptions are filled with pride, so what good has your reading done you? The fact is, even the pagans knew they needed a sacrifice...does that mean sacrifices are ungodly? I suggest you don't think more highly of yourself than you ought since the Holy Spirit will withhold understanding from such a one...lest they boast in themselves instead of the Lord.[/quote]
Ditto, feller!

 

[Ahuli]

Let me see if I can put a little light on the spirit of man and the spirit of beasts. "ruach"

The word "spirit" in both cases is the Hebrew word "ruach" , Which can be translated - spirit - or wind.

For a more precise understand, this word "ruach" should be understood to mean -- spirit wind.

In Gen. 8:1 we read - "God made a wind- "ruach" to pass over the earth" -- The same word - "ruach" is used in Gen. 1:2 - "the spirit ( ruach ) of God moved upon the face of the waters" < The reason the word "spirit" is not cap. is because it is not talking specifically about the Spirit of God. It is talking about the spirit wind God blew upon the face of the waters.

Mankind has the spirit wind blown into their nostriles from God above.

Animals (beasts) have spirit wind when they were made. God from above, did not blow into their nostriles. Eccl. 3:21 tells us that the spirit of the beast that goeth down < This word "spirit" is "ruach" which means - "spirit wind".

Let me show you all another usage of the word "ruach" in Job 7:7 - "remember that my life (is) wind" < wind, is the Hebrew word - "ruach"

Here is another usage of the Hebrew word "ruach" -- Psalm 103:15 and 16 - "As for man, his days are as grass : as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth" -- "For the wind ( "ruach" ) passeth over it , and it is gone: and the place thereof shall know it no more" < This is refering to the quickness of life here on earth.

For your interest, here is another "ruach" --- Psalms 147:18 - "He sendeth out his word, and melteth them : he causeth his wind (ruach) to blow, and the waters flow"

Jonah 4:8 - "And it came to pass when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind" < "ruach"

The word "spirit" in Prov. 20:27 - "The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord" is the Hebrew word "neshamah" < This is "spirit breath"

That spirit/breath/ruach, leaves man upon death. Dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return. Nowhere does the bible say that souls are immortal. But, it does say that God only has immortality. A soul dies. The soul that sins it shall die and we know we are all sinners. How can this be so difficult to understand?

 

[Ahuli]

Let me see if I can put a little light on the spirit of man and the spirit of beasts. "ruach"

The word "spirit" in both cases is the Hebrew word "ruach" , Which can be translated - spirit - or wind.

For a more precise understand, this word "ruach" should be understood to mean -- spirit wind.

In Gen. 8:1 we read - "God made a wind- "ruach" to pass over the earth" -- The same word - "ruach" is used in Gen. 1:2 - "the spirit ( ruach ) of God moved upon the face of the waters" < The reason the word "spirit" is not cap. is because it is not talking specifically about the Spirit of God. It is talking about the spirit wind God blew upon the face of the waters.

Mankind has the spirit wind blown into their nostriles from God above.

Animals (beasts) have spirit wind when they were made. God from above, did not blow into their nostriles. Eccl. 3:21 tells us that the spirit of the beast that goeth down < This word "spirit" is "ruach" which means - "spirit wind".

Let me show you all another usage of the word "ruach" in Job 7:7 - "remember that my life (is) wind" < wind, is the Hebrew word - "ruach"

Here is another usage of the Hebrew word "ruach" -- Psalm 103:15 and 16 - "As for man, his days are as grass : as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth" -- "For the wind ( "ruach" ) passeth over it , and it is gone: and the place thereof shall know it no more" < This is refering to the quickness of life here on earth.

For your interest, here is another "ruach" --- Psalms 147:18 - "He sendeth out his word, and melteth them : he causeth his wind (ruach) to blow, and the waters flow"

Jonah 4:8 - "And it came to pass when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind" < "ruach"

The word "spirit" in Prov. 20:27 - "The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord" is the Hebrew word "neshamah" < This is "spirit breath"

Sorry, but "spirit wind" does not fit in the verses I gave...therefore you're wrong. :halo

Roll on the floor laughing my butt off! :biglol

 

[Mysteryman]

Then how about we just study the Word and put aside this silly wrangling. I find this is a facinating topic and important to our walk with the Lord. The idea of dividing the soul and spirit is how we become the "spiritual man" that's spoken of in the Bible. Should we not seek to put aside the soulish part that ruled our lives prior to our being saved? Before we can really do that, we have to see that it needs to be done.

BTW, I don't just say, "tails", because you say "heads". I simply share what I see from the Word. When it conflicts with what you say, I speak out. I think that's what we're supposed to be doing on a discussion board. Right?

Hi gd

I know that you are sharing what you think you see from the Word. However, when someone disagrees with you, you then make them feel like they are arguing against scripture, because you just can not be wrong. So by all means, please set aside these childish comments.

Prophecy of the scriptures is of no private interpretation.

Christians are set apart from the rest of the world. In that they have not the Spirit from God in them = Christ in them. But all of mankind has the spirit of man . God talked to mankind in the OT - Spirit to spirit of man. There is no doubt about this. Nor does there seem to be any disagreement with this.

However, when you quote the church epistles and are still claiming that the church epistles are talking about the spirit of man. You could not be further from the truth ! The reason being, is because the church epistles are talking to the body of Christ and not unto the world. All of mankind has the spirit of man -- All ! And when mankind dies, the spirit of man goes back to God who is the giver.

The soul is not the spirit and the spirit is not the soul. The soul goes down to the grave with the dead body. The spirit of man goes back to the giver - God.

The "comforter" , which is Christ in you, remains with you always. John 14:16 - "abide with you forever"

The spirit of man does not abide with us forever !

Unfortunately, you choose to ignore the verses that say otherwise. Instead you choose to give your own private interpretation and can't even address the proof that's been offered. That pretty much ends any discussion, doesn't it?

Any discussion ends quickly , when someone makes these kind of unwarrented comments such as this !

You know better than to say I ignore anything that you have brought to any conversation !

I refute your comments with scripture and you babble. Not much of a conversation is it ?

 

[Danus]

Quote Danus: "However, your defense was one sentence of Psalm 44 that you are suggesting means we have no spirit, only a soul and body; and when we die our souls are laid to rest in the ground with our body. It deserves to be looked at in it's entirety. So, here it is KJ Psalm 44"


Hi Danus

Its interesting how you took my comment out of context in order to try and make your point.

First - The context of Psalm 44 is talking about death !

Second - Mankind is body, soul, and spirit. The spirit of man goes back to God after one dies. Ecc. 12:7. - goes back to the giver. God gave man the spirit of man. God didn't make man a spirit !

Psalm 30:3 - "O Lord, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: "

Psalm 49:15 - "But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave"

God made mankind body and soul. God did not make man body, soul and spirit !

Well, let me address two fronts. ether your not communicating enough or I'm misunderstanding you.
I thought I did your post justice in my response.

1st front. Psalms 44 is not at all speaking of death. Nothing at all about death in that Psalm; especially verse 25. We'll just have to disagree on that.

2nd front. Your saying mankind has a body, soul and spirit

Mankind is body, soul, and spirit. The spirit of man goes back to God after one dies. Ecc. 12:7. - goes back to the giver. God gave man the spirit of man. God didn't make man a spirit !

Further you say man's body and soul goes to the grave and his spirit goes to be with God. You further state that God gave man a spirit, I assume you mean when he created man. You even quote Ecclesiastes 12:7. Good verse by the way. Here is the NIV of that one: 7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Notice however, that is does not specifically say that his soul goes to the ground. In fact it does not mention the soul. But, just to make sure let's look at the KJ version. 7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Nope, nothing about the soul going to the ground there

So, on that note I think we are in agreement about the "tricotomy of man" I must have misunderstood you, and for that I do apologize. Anything else you might add on the trichotomy of man? I will be posting part II in a few weeks.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Danus: "1st front. Psalms 44 is not at all speaking of death. Nothing at all about death in that Psalm; especially verse 25. We'll just have to disagree on that. "


Hi Danus

Just for reference purposes, I said that the 44 Psalm is talking about death, and now again you say it is not.

Have you read Psalm 44:19 - 25 ?

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Danus: "Further you say man's body and soul goes to the grave and his spirit goes to be with God. You further state that God gave man a spirit, I assume you mean when he created man."


Hi Danus

No , not when he created man. When he breathed into the nostriles of man, man received the spirit of man .

 

[Danus]

Quote Danus: "1st front. Psalms 44 is not at all speaking of death. Nothing at all about death in that Psalm; especially verse 25. We'll just have to disagree on that. "


Hi Danus

Just for reference purposes, I said that the 44 Psalm is talking about death, and now again you say it is not.

Have you read Psalm 44:19 - 25 ?

I even printed it out on my original response. here it is again, and again it's not speaking about death.

Psalm 44 (New International Version)
1 We have heard with our ears, O God;
our fathers have told us
what you did in their days,
in days long ago.

2 With your hand you drove out the nations
and planted our fathers;
you crushed the peoples
and made our fathers flourish.

3 It was not by their sword that they won the land,
nor did their arm bring them victory;
it was your right hand, your arm,
and the light of your face, for you loved them.

4 You are my King and my God,
who decrees victories for Jacob.

5 Through you we push back our enemies;
through your name we trample our foes.

6 I do not trust in my bow,
my sword does not bring me victory;

7 but you give us victory over our enemies,
you put our adversaries to shame.

8 In God we make our boast all day long,
and we will praise your name forever.
Selah

9 But now you have rejected and humbled us;
you no longer go out with our armies.

10 You made us retreat before the enemy,
and our adversaries have plundered us.

11 You gave us up to be devoured like sheep
and have scattered us among the nations.

12 You sold your people for a pittance,
gaining nothing from their sale.

13 You have made us a reproach to our neighbors,
the scorn and derision of those around us.

14 You have made us a byword among the nations;
the peoples shake their heads at us.

15 My disgrace is before me all day long,
and my face is covered with shame

16 at the taunts of those who reproach and revile me,
because of the enemy, who is bent on revenge.

17 All this happened to us,
though we had not forgotten you
or been false to your covenant.

18 Our hearts had not turned back;
our feet had not strayed from your path.

19 But you crushed us and made us a haunt for jackals
and covered us over with deep darkness.

20 If we had forgotten the name of our God
or spread out our hands to a foreign god,

21 would not God have discovered it,
since he knows the secrets of the heart?

22 Yet for your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.

23 Awake, O Lord! Why do you sleep?
Rouse yourself! Do not reject us forever.

24 Why do you hide your face
and forget our misery and oppression?

25 We are brought down to the dust;
our bodies cling to the ground.

26 Rise up and help us;
redeem us because of your unfailing love.

 

[glorydaz]

Danus, it's a waste of your "spirit breath" talking to some people. LOL
The reason they see every verse pertaining to the soul in such a skewed manner is because they don't believe the soul can cry out, be afflicted, mourn, rejoice, etc. They simply ignore those verses or turn them into death. They refuse to address any of the verses that disprove their theory, but there are others that don't come with preconceived notions, so I'd encourage you to continue your thread despite the nay-sayers.

Here, he is worried about being overrun by his enemies

For our soul is bowed down to the dust: our belly cleaveth unto the earth.

Same here.

They have prepared a net for my steps; my soul is bowed down: they have digged a pit before me, into the midst whereof they are fallen themselves. Selah.

This gives a good picture of what's going on.

Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?

 

[glorydaz]

The soul is not the spirit and the spirit is not the soul. The soul goes down to the grave with the dead body. The spirit of man goes back to the giver - God.

"To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." :yes

So my soul won't be going to the grave with my dead body.

My soul has been atoned for, and redeemed and will remain with my "quickened" spirit.
My soul and body will go to be with the Lord... awaiting only my resurrected body.

If the soul goes to the grave with the body, why did this boy's soul depart and then return when Elijah prayed to God? If he'd died, the soul should have remained to be buried with the boy.

And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son? And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived. And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth.

The soul is the essence of man. The soul sins and is atoned for, and redeemed; it is saved.

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

The spirit of man is "quickened", but the soul is "converted".

The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

It's the soul that is delivered from hell.

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.....Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

The soul crys out, "Redeem me...gather not my soul with sinner."

Gather not my soul with sinners, nor my life with bloody men: In whose hands is mischief, and their right hand is full of bribes. But as for me, I will walk in mine integrity: redeem me, and be merciful unto me.

The flesh feels pain, but the soul "mourns".

But his flesh upon him shall have pain, and his soul within him shall mourn.

The "comforter" , which is Christ in you, remains with you always. John 14:16 - "abide with you forever"

The spirit of man does not abide with us forever !

God formed Adam's spirit in the beginning. It wasn't mankind's spirit, but each person's individual spirit...it needs to be quickened by the Spirit of God, so we can hear God's voice and commune with Him. Our spirit certainly does abide with us forever...it will return to God along with our soul (who we are...our "self")..either to everlasting life or everlasting condemnation.

The Holy Spirit abides in the whole of man...body, soul, and spirit.
We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Do you ever read any of the verses, or do you just talk?

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote glorydaz: "So my soul won't be going to the grave with my dead body."


Hi gd

Lets look at a few verses within the book of Psalms shall we ?

Psalm 22:29 - "and none can keep alive his own soul"

Psalm 33:19 - "To deliver their soul from death "

Psalm 49:15 - "But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave : "


Psalm 89:48 - "What man liveth, and shall not see death ? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave ? "

And to think, that these are just a small handfull of verses for you to read and consider as the truth.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote glorydaz: "If the soul goes to the grave with the body, why did this boy's soul depart and then return when Elijah prayed to God? If he'd died, the soul should have remained to be buried with the boy.
1 Kings 17: 20-23 wrote:
And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son? And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived. And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth."



Hi gd

Have you not read the book of Psalms ? When the body dies, the soul dies. It does not go anywhere !

The words - "came into him again" > means >> came alive within him again

God revived his soul from the dead . There is no such thing as an out of body experience ! Your soul is not floating around somewhere after one dies ! Stop reading science fiction books and stick your nose back into the Word of God. And especially on this paticular subject, back into the book of Psalms !

 

[Danus]

Quote Danus: "Further you say man's body and soul goes to the grave and his spirit goes to be with God. You further state that God gave man a spirit, I assume you mean when he created man."


Hi Danus

No , not when he created man. When he breathed into the nostriles of man, man received the spirit of man .

Thanks for that clarification.....that's kind of the finishing touches of the creation of man to me, but again your description on the trichotomy of man and creation seem to be matching up with the OP. So, I'm marking you down for seeing the trichotomy of man.

Danus, it's a waste of your "spirit breath" talking to some people. LOL
The reason they see every verse pertaining to the soul in such a skewed manner is because they don't believe the soul can cry out, be afflicted, mourn, rejoice, etc. They simply ignore those verses or turn them into death. They refuse to address any of the verses that disprove their theory, but there are others that don't come with preconceived notions, so I'd encourage you to continue your thread despite the nay-sayers.

You are absolutely right.
My goal in the beginning was to further define and pull out of scripture the trichotomy of man, to which you have added quite a bit. Then when I saw the whole thing getting attacked in the most bizarre manner possible, so I started looking through other translations thinking "OK I'll bite. Heck I'm a Christian and open to exploring the word". However, I can't find any reputable theology that matches up to not understanding the trichotomy or the trinity of God (which (the trinity of God)is essential Christian doctrine). To that end, I'm not sure what these other views are, but I'm starting to think we have wolves dressed as sheep in here ; that or "Happy Hills church" is trying to spread it's message.

 

[Mysteryman]

Let me see if I can put a little light on the spirit of man and the spirit of beasts. "ruach"

The word "spirit" in both cases is the Hebrew word "ruach" , Which can be translated - spirit - or wind.

For a more precise understand, this word "ruach" should be understood to mean -- spirit wind.

In Gen. 8:1 we read - "God made a wind- "ruach" to pass over the earth" -- The same word - "ruach" is used in Gen. 1:2 - "the spirit ( ruach ) of God moved upon the face of the waters" < The reason the word "spirit" is not cap. is because it is not talking specifically about the Spirit of God. It is talking about the spirit wind God blew upon the face of the waters.

Mankind has the spirit wind blown into their nostriles from God above.

Animals (beasts) have spirit wind when they were made. God from above, did not blow into their nostriles. Eccl. 3:21 tells us that the spirit of the beast that goeth down < This word "spirit" is "ruach" which means - "spirit wind".

Let me show you all another usage of the word "ruach" in Job 7:7 - "remember that my life (is) wind" < wind, is the Hebrew word - "ruach"

Here is another usage of the Hebrew word "ruach" -- Psalm 103:15 and 16 - "As for man, his days are as grass : as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth" -- "For the wind ( "ruach" ) passeth over it , and it is gone: and the place thereof shall know it no more" < This is refering to the quickness of life here on earth.

For your interest, here is another "ruach" --- Psalms 147:18 - "He sendeth out his word, and melteth them : he causeth his wind (ruach) to blow, and the waters flow"

Jonah 4:8 - "And it came to pass when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind" < "ruach"

The word "spirit" in Prov. 20:27 - "The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord" is the Hebrew word "neshamah" < This is "spirit breath"

That spirit/breath/ruach, leaves man upon death. Dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return. Nowhere does the bible say that souls are immortal. But, it does say that God only has immortality. A soul dies. The soul that sins it shall die and we know we are all sinners. How can this be so difficult to understand?

Hi

It shouldn't be that difficult to understand. Scripture is quit clear about this. The soul dies and goes to the grave with the dead body. However, some have been indoctrinated with false teachings and they will not let go of those false teachings.

 

[Ahuli]

Let me see if I can put a little light on the spirit of man and the spirit of beasts. "ruach"

The word "spirit" in both cases is the Hebrew word "ruach" , Which can be translated - spirit - or wind.

For a more precise understand, this word "ruach" should be understood to mean -- spirit wind.

In Gen. 8:1 we read - "God made a wind- "ruach" to pass over the earth" -- The same word - "ruach" is used in Gen. 1:2 - "the spirit ( ruach ) of God moved upon the face of the waters" < The reason the word "spirit" is not cap. is because it is not talking specifically about the Spirit of God. It is talking about the spirit wind God blew upon the face of the waters.

Mankind has the spirit wind blown into their nostriles from God above.

Animals (beasts) have spirit wind when they were made. God from above, did not blow into their nostriles. Eccl. 3:21 tells us that the spirit of the beast that goeth down < This word "spirit" is "ruach" which means - "spirit wind".

Let me show you all another usage of the word "ruach" in Job 7:7 - "remember that my life (is) wind" < wind, is the Hebrew word - "ruach"

Here is another usage of the Hebrew word "ruach" -- Psalm 103:15 and 16 - "As for man, his days are as grass : as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth" -- "For the wind ( "ruach" ) passeth over it , and it is gone: and the place thereof shall know it no more" < This is refering to the quickness of life here on earth.

For your interest, here is another "ruach" --- Psalms 147:18 - "He sendeth out his word, and melteth them : he causeth his wind (ruach) to blow, and the waters flow"

Jonah 4:8 - "And it came to pass when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind" < "ruach"

The word "spirit" in Prov. 20:27 - "The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord" is the Hebrew word "neshamah" < This is "spirit breath"

That spirit/breath/ruach, leaves man upon death. Dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return. Nowhere does the bible say that souls are immortal. But, it does say that God only has immortality. A soul dies. The soul that sins it shall die and we know we are all sinners. How can this be so difficult to understand?

Hi

It shouldn't be that difficult to understand. Scripture is quit clear about this. The soul dies and goes to the grave with the dead body. However, some have been indoctrinated with false teachings and they will not let go of those false teachings.

What's more, they make all kinds of excuses to defend those teachings, including scandalizing our God to make HIM look ambivalent/despotic. In the Old Testament, God punishes for adopting/adapting to pagan influences. Today, people say that pagans have some truth ignoring the fact that God never mentions it and moreso razes them from the planet. No, that is NOT difficult to understand. Except that I have difficulty understanding how those who say they love HIM, can malign HIM so deeply.

Thank you for your words.

 

[Ahuli]

Then how about we just study the Word and put aside this silly wrangling. I find this is a facinating topic and important to our walk with the Lord. The idea of dividing the soul and spirit is how we become the "spiritual man" that's spoken of in the Bible. Should we not seek to put aside the soulish part that ruled our lives prior to our being saved? Before we can really do that, we have to see that it needs to be done.

BTW, I don't just say, "tails", because you say "heads". I simply share what I see from the Word. When it conflicts with what you say, I speak out. I think that's what we're supposed to be doing on a discussion board. Right?

Hi gd

I know that you are sharing what you think you see from the Word. However, when someone disagrees with you, you then make them feel like they are arguing against scripture, because you just can not be wrong. So by all means, please set aside these childish comments.

Prophecy of the scriptures is of no private interpretation.

Christians are set apart from the rest of the world. In that they have not the Spirit from God in them = Christ in them. But all of mankind has the spirit of man . God talked to mankind in the OT - Spirit to spirit of man. There is no doubt about this. Nor does there seem to be any disagreement with this.

However, when you quote the church epistles and are still claiming that the church epistles are talking about the spirit of man. You could not be further from the truth ! The reason being, is because the church epistles are talking to the body of Christ and not unto the world. All of mankind has the spirit of man -- All ! And when mankind dies, the spirit of man goes back to God who is the giver.

The soul is not the spirit and the spirit is not the soul. The soul goes down to the grave with the dead body. The spirit of man goes back to the giver - God.

The "comforter" , which is Christ in you, remains with you always. John 14:16 - "abide with you forever"

The spirit of man does not abide with us forever !

Unfortunately, you choose to ignore the verses that say otherwise. Instead you choose to give your own private interpretation and can't even address the proof that's been offered. That pretty much ends any discussion, doesn't it?

What I have found here is the bully accusing the brethren and his agenda is to bully. This is a fine place to visit, with ... from what I read ... exceptional people to witness for God, with dignity, respect, and Christlike love, which is healing.

 

[Danus]

OK, back to the trichotomy of man.

Thank you all for contributing to my post. Especially, glorydaz, Mysteryman and Ahuli.
I’m sure it will continue, but I got to say I’m a little disappointed in the direction.

I was hoping to get more substantive detail to form my study, and while I did get some, (thank you glorydaze) I see some hurt feelings here that are perhaps normal when someone like me stirs the pot up a bit and pushes buttons to purposefully get more detail from people on their views. However, I have found that more often then not when discussing doctrine it’s not always easy to get someone to share everything they know. Often times I fine myself having to read between the lines to get it, usually because of misunderstandings or lack of clear communications, and I’m just as guilty. However, if I added any discontent to anyone’s heart, please accept my apology up front. I am not hear to beat on anyone or misrepresent my views.

This is a study I am working on, and one I find quite festinating. It’s also a view that while beautiful in many regards; I recognize could also be dangerous in others depending on how someone internalizes it. To me the trichotomy of man view is a beautiful illustration at best. I don’t know that I would consider it solid doctrine. So, I’d like to share what I think so far about the trichotomy of man and perhaps put this thread back on track a little.

One thing I would just ask is that we not be too caught up in beating each other over the head with our convictions, but that we try to explain our positions more for the benefit of everyone. There are going to be times when our convictions will cross, but it might be due to miscommunication, misunderstanding, more so that good old-fashion craziness.

So with that………I have a couple of views I’d like to hear detail on……..

1. The bible does clearly describe mankind as a unitary being. That description in its most basic form seems more weighted to a dichotomy view of material and immaterial. Clearly the trichotmy view seems to hold the body as the material, the spirit as the immaterial and the soul as ambiguous to both in some way. (part of the material but in an immaterial existence) ….Like to hear views on this

2. Consider this; the bible does specifically recognize mankind as body, soul and sprit among many verses. I think it does this to cover all the basis of both the material and immaterial aspects of mankind, and further more I seem to notice that this specific language is more so found in the NT. …….Why?

The answer might be found in who the NT was written for. It was not just written for Christians, but for all. There is room in the word as a whole for all. That would include pagans of the time.

Thanks in advance to anyone who would like to jump in on this.

 

[JamesG]

.
Danus

““The answer might be found in who the NT was written for. It was not just written for Christians, but for all. There is room in the word as a whole for all. That would include pagans of the time.â€â€

Perhaps you should begin by considering who the NT was written to, before you consider who the NT was written for.

JamesG