The true teachings of Jesus

[journeymanisnothing]

God is king of eternity. Jesus had to be appointed as king of Gods kingdom( Daniel 7:13-15)--Then he must hand it back to his God and Father and subject himself-1Cor 15:24-28--This is what the bible teaches.

I took the time to explain those two passages you cited, so they make sense with all of scripture, but again, you ignore where God says he will be King of his people.....referring to their earthly King.
You ignore it, because you can't reconcile it.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Firstly, don't forget that Jesus ministered to non-Jews as well, so it is quite possible that some of them became followers. Just because the twelve were Jews doesn't mean that all who followed him were Jews. Secondly, you said "decades" and three years is not even one decade. Pentecost occurred 50 days after Jesus's resurrection, when some "converts to Judaism," that is, Gentiles, became followers of Christ. And, given that Acts covers about 30 years, the events in chapter 10 would not have been that long after Pentecost.

While I am making some assumptions, they are more likely than your assumptions based on what Scripture says.

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say as I don't even know what this has to do with the topic.

Agreed, we drop it.

 

[keiw1]

If it is, then, as I have shown, it refers to Jesus as ho theos, which means that it does teach that Jesus is truly God and "a god" is incorrect.


No reputable scholar would say that.

You mean no scholar that believes in a trinity. Jesus is not called Ho Theos in the last line at John 1:1--a god is correct for plain Theos when God is called Ho Theos in the same paragraph.

 

[keiw1]

I took the time to explain those two passages you cited, so they make sense with all of scripture, but again, you ignor where God says he will be King of his people.....referring to their earthly King.
You ignore it, because you can't reconcile it.

Your religions twist reality to fit their false teachings. Like only begotten translates-Created direct first and last. But your religions twist it.

 

[Free]

Jesus is not called Ho Theos in the last line at John 1:1

I never said he was.

--a god is correct for plain Theos when God is called Ho Theos in the same paragraph.

But why do you not address my point? You previously claimed: "Only in trinity translation is Ho Theos at those 2 spots you mentioned if it is. Because if Jesus was HoTheos that would have been in the last line at John 1:1 as well but it wasnt."

And: "I know its fact about Ho Theos--Only the Father is called that in the NT." https://christianforums.net/threads/how-to-defend-the-trinity.87711/page-21#post-1688610

But I have posted more than once now that the Watchtower's Interlinear Translation shows that Jesus is called ho theos in at least two verses. Why don't you address this contradiction in your beliefs? Who is right, you or the Watchtower?

 

[pierac]

The teachings of Jesus who many claim to serve, found in every translation on earth. Its a 100% guarantee the teachers who have Jesus teach exactly what he taught.

1) Matthew 6:33-- Therefore, keep on seeking-FIRST- the kingdom and his( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality-Matt 6)

2) Matthew 5:5-- Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth( the great crowd which no man can number(Rev 7:9) this is to) The little flock( Luke 12:32) are numbered=144,000-Rev 14:3) these are promised heaven

3) The Lords prayer--Hallowed be thy( Father) name-YHWH(Jehovah)--Some translations, last line-The kingdom, power and glory belong to the Father.

4)John 20:17, Rev 3:12--Jesus teaches, the Father is his God just like ours--Paul and Peter( his real teachers) teach the same- Coll 1:3, Ephesians 1:13,17, 2Cor 1:3--1Peter 1:3

5) John 17:1-6,26--A prayer to his Father-- verse 3-This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father)( Father sent Jesus) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and knowing Jesus-- verse 6= YHWH(Jehovah) verse 26= YHWH(Jehovah)

6) John 15:20-21) Jesus warns that on account of his name( thinking are standing up for it) will do things against the true followers because they do not know the one who sent him= Father= YHWH(Jehovah)

7) Luke 18:19-- Jesus tells all, no one good but God, after they called him good, clearly showing he is not God.

8) John 4:22-24-- Jesus begins by warning about the false gods being served, then makes it clear--The true followers will worship the Father in spirit and truth--not Father, Son and holy spirit.

Again i say its 100% fact-The real teachers that have Jesus teach exactly what he taught.

Nice... BUT... What did Jesus Teach???
Not what you think!!!

Luk 4:43 But He said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, for I was sent for this purpose."
Luk 8:1 Soon afterwards, He began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him,
Luk 9:1 And He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases. 2 And He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to perform healing.

Now...What did the twelve proclaim????

Luk 18:31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things which are written through the prophets about the Son of Man will be accomplished. 32 "For He will be handed over to the Gentiles, and will be mocked and mistreated and spit upon, 33 and after they have scourged Him, they will kill Him; and the third day He will rise again." 34 But the disciples understood none of these things, and the meaning of this statement was hidden from them, and they did not comprehend the things that were said.

Again... What did the twelve proclaim???? The Gospel was announced and taught all before anyone knew of Jesus' death and dying for the sins of the world!

Mar 1:14 Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
Mar 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

Mat 4:23 Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people.
Mat 9:35 Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

Even after Jesus' resurrection what about the gospel...

Act 1:3 To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Act 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"

Act 19:8 And he entered the synagogue and continued speaking out boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.
Act 20:25 "And now, behold, I know that all of you, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, will no longer see my face.
Act 28:23 When they had set a day for Paul, they came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening.

Now..... What's added to the Kingdom/Gospel???

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
Act 28:31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness, unhindered.

KNOW THIS... The Twelve preached the gosple and healed the sick for years.... All with out knowing about Jesus dying for the sins of the world! What is the only thing you hear in Church today??? You never hear... about the Kingdom of God... just Jesus saves!

Luk 8:1 Soon afterwards, He began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him,
Luk 9:1 And He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases. 2 And He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to perform healing.

The gosple is Sooo much more than Jesus saves!! That's about 10% of the Kingdom of God!
How do you not know these things???

Here's a hint.... The risen from the dead Jesus spent 40 days... 40 Days...!!!
Act 1:3 To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

After 40 days of speaking with the risen Christ...what was their last question?

Act 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"

It's all about the 1000yr reign that's coming!!!
Paul

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Your religions twist reality to fit their false teachings. Like only begotten translates-Created direct first and last. But your religions twist it.

Begotten doesn't mean created. It means born and that means people are what their parents are. So teaching Jesus isn't God is wrong from the get go.

 

[keiw1]

I never said he was.


But why do you not address my point? You previously claimed: "Only in trinity translation is Ho Theos at those 2 spots you mentioned if it is. Because if Jesus was HoTheos that would have been in the last line at John 1:1 as well but it wasnt."

And: "I know its fact about Ho Theos--Only the Father is called that in the NT." https://christianforums.net/threads/how-to-defend-the-trinity.87711/page-21#post-1688610

But I have posted more than once now that the Watchtower's Interlinear Translation shows that Jesus is called ho theos in at least two verses. Why don't you address this contradiction in your beliefs? Who is right, you or the Watchtower?

Thomas didnt call Jesus his God, he was calling the Father that. Once he knew it was Jesus who was resurrected he accepted Jesus and called The Father his God. Where is the other spot so i can look it up?

 

[keiw1]

Nice... BUT... What did Jesus Teach???
Not what you think!!!

Luk 4:43 But He said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, for I was sent for this purpose."
Luk 8:1 Soon afterwards, He began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him,
Luk 9:1 And He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases. 2 And He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to perform healing.

Now...What did the twelve proclaim????

Luk 18:31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things which are written through the prophets about the Son of Man will be accomplished. 32 "For He will be handed over to the Gentiles, and will be mocked and mistreated and spit upon, 33 and after they have scourged Him, they will kill Him; and the third day He will rise again." 34 But the disciples understood none of these things, and the meaning of this statement was hidden from them, and they did not comprehend the things that were said.

Again... What did the twelve proclaim???? The Gospel was announced and taught all before anyone knew of Jesus' death and dying for the sins of the world!

Mar 1:14 Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
Mar 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

Mat 4:23 Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people.
Mat 9:35 Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

Even after Jesus' resurrection what about the gospel...

Act 1:3 To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Act 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"

Act 19:8 And he entered the synagogue and continued speaking out boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.
Act 20:25 "And now, behold, I know that all of you, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, will no longer see my face.
Act 28:23 When they had set a day for Paul, they came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening.

Now..... What's added to the Kingdom/Gospel???

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
Act 28:31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness, unhindered.

KNOW THIS... The Twelve preached the gosple and healed the sick for years.... All with out knowing about Jesus dying for the sins of the world! What is the only thing you hear in Church today??? You never hear... about the Kingdom of God... just Jesus saves!

Luk 8:1 Soon afterwards, He began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him,
Luk 9:1 And He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases. 2 And He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to perform healing.

The gosple is Sooo much more than Jesus saves!! That's about 10% of the Kingdom of God!
How do you not know these things???

Here's a hint.... The risen from the dead Jesus spent 40 days... 40 Days...!!!
Act 1:3 To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

After 40 days of speaking with the risen Christ...what was their last question?

Act 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"

It's all about the 1000yr reign that's coming!!!
Paul

Jesus went around preaching to the Jews. Yes the good news of Gods kingdom is what Jesus preached. That Gods govt rule will be a cure all for mankind. It will do away with satan and all wicked things and the wicked. All will live forever on earth in harmony. Only 144,000 were promised heaven=The little flock( Luke 12:32)= the bride of Christ. No where is the great crowd promised heaven. Yes during the 1000 year reign, Earth will be transformed into Eden(paradise)-mortals will return to perfection. The resurrection, then satan loosed for a little while, then destroyed. Then Jesus hands back the kingdom to his God and Father and subjects himself-1Cor 15:24-28

 

[keiw1]

Begotten doesn't mean created. It means born and that means people are what their parents are. So teaching Jesus isn't God is wrong from the get go.

Only begotten=firstborn of all creation-created direct first and last.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Only begotten=firstborn of all creation-created direct first and last.

No keiw1. Firstborn speaks of birthright, position of authority, "because he created all things." I think even the green monster says that.

 

[Free]

Thomas didnt call Jesus his God, he was calling the Father that. Once he knew it was Jesus who was resurrected he accepted Jesus and called The Father his God. Where is the other spot so i can look it up?

Thomas very clearly called Jesus his Lord and his God. In context, this interaction is only between Jesus and Thomas, the Father is never mentioned.

Joh 20:24 Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.
Joh 20:25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”
Joh 20:26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”
Joh 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
Joh 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

The Kingdom Interlinear Translation is just as clear: "Answered Thomas and he said to him The Lord of me and the God of me!" That is stated directly to Jesus, having just seen him alive again. I have provided you with these two verses--Matt 1:23 and John 20:28--multiple times and even provided both the English and Greek of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation.

 

[Free]

Only begotten=firstborn of all creation-created direct first and last.

Not at all. "Only begotten" is the Greek word monogenes, and is used only nine times in the NT. It means "unique" or "only" or something along those lines. It is also used of Jesus only five times--John 1:14, 18, 3:16, 18, and 1 John 4:9--and is translated as "only begotten" in each instance. The other four times--Luke 7:12, 8:42, 9:38, and Heb 11:17--it is translated as "only."

Each instance of monogenes is speaking of the relationship of parents to the their children.

"Firstborn," on the other hand, is the Greek word prototokos, which can literally mean the firstborn child, or metaphorically refer to one having the rights of being firstborn, even though they're not, or having the place of preeminence or sovereignty.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Only begotten=firstborn of all creation-created direct first and last.

A simple check reveals "only begotten" doesn't mean CREATED DIRECT FIRST AND LAST. When we put your suggested meaning into verses where "only begotten" appears, they no longer make sense:

And when He came near the gate of the city, behold, a dead man was being carried out, the only (3439 μονογενής monogenes) son of his mother; and she was a widow. And a large crowd from the city was with her. NKJ Lk. 7:12

And when He came near the gate of the city, behold, a dead man was being carried out, the CREATED DIRECT FIRST AND LAST (3439 μονογενής monogenes) son of his mother; and she was a widow. And a large crowd from the city was with her. NKJ Lk. 7:12



for he had an only (3439 μονογενής monogenes) daughter about twelve years of age, and she was dying. But as He went, the multitudes thronged Him.

for he had an CREATED DIRECT FIRST AND LAST (3439 μονογενής monogenes) daughter about twelve years of age, and she was dying. But as He went, the multitudes thronged Him.



Suddenly a man from the multitude cried out, saying, "Teacher, I implore You, look on my son, for he is my only child (3439 μονογενής monogenes). NKJ Lk. 9:38

Suddenly a man from the multitude cried out, saying, "Teacher, I implore You, look on my son, for he is my CREATED DIRECT FIRST AND LAST (3439 μονογενής monogenes). NKJ Lk. 9:38


Target text:
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten (3439 μονογενής monogenes) Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (Jn. 1:18 NKJ)



By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten (3439 μονογενής monogenes) son, NKJ Heb. 11:17

By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his CREATED DIRECT FIRST AND LAST (3439 μονογενής monogenes) son, NKJ Heb. 11:17

Just as Abraham's only Son was not a sub-human creation, the Father's only Son is not "sub-God creation".

Words mean what they mean, Jesus is the Son of God, not a creation by God. John was very clear, not one thing was created without Jesus doing the creation with His Father:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (Jn. 1:1-3 NKJ)

 

[gordon777]

Jesus Christ is not the same as Abraham having a son called Isaac.

Jesus Christ gives the Holy Spirit to us, because He is the Spirit.

That is the way to think of the Son of God, in the flesh on earth, then received up to glory, and we know Him then no more after the flesh ( as God was with us.)

God is a mystery, is that not why you guys are forever talking about something you can never know.





2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[keiw1]

No keiw1. Firstborn speaks of birthright, position of authority, "because he created all things." I think even the green monster says that.

He tells all he was created at Proverbs 8-He is Gods master worker. Who else would be beside God but the one whom God created all other things through. He is the Firstborn of all creation. All creation occurred at the beginning.

 

[keiw1]

Thomas very clearly called Jesus his Lord and his God. In context, this interaction is only between Jesus and Thomas, the Father is never mentioned.

Joh 20:24 Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.
Joh 20:25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”
Joh 20:26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”
Joh 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
Joh 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

The Kingdom Interlinear Translation is just as clear: "Answered Thomas and he said to him The Lord of me and the God of me!" That is stated directly to Jesus, having just seen him alive again. I have provided you with these two verses--Matt 1:23 and John 20:28--multiple times and even provided both the English and Greek of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation.

When was Jesus called Immanuel? And that was talking about the true God, because it was God who did it all through Jesus-Acts 2:22-1Cor 8:5-6- That is how God was with us, not in being, He was still in heaven. If Thomas was Jewish, he knew the messiah has a God and would not call him the God. It may look like in reading Thomas called Jesus God, but he did not. He most likely looked to heaven when he said that. Whether one wants to accept truth-Jesus has a God just like us-Psalm 45:7, John 20:17--God does not have a God.

 

[keiw1]

Not at all. "Only begotten" is the Greek word monogenes, and is used only nine times in the NT. It means "unique" or "only" or something along those lines. It is also used of Jesus only five times--John 1:14, 18, 3:16, 18, and 1 John 4:9--and is translated as "only begotten" in each instance. The other four times--Luke 7:12, 8:42, 9:38, and Heb 11:17--it is translated as "only."

Each instance of monogenes is speaking of the relationship of parents to the their children.

"Firstborn," on the other hand, is the Greek word prototokos, which can literally mean the firstborn child, or metaphorically refer to one having the rights of being firstborn, even though they're not, or having the place of preeminence or sovereignty.

Thats right-the only one created direct-first and last-He tells all that fact in Prov 8-he is the one who was by God as his master worker.

 

[keiw1]

A simple check reveals "only begotten" doesn't mean CREATED DIRECT FIRST AND LAST. When we put your suggested meaning into verses where "only begotten" appears, they no longer make sense:

And when He came near the gate of the city, behold, a dead man was being carried out, the only (3439 μονογενής monogenes) son of his mother; and she was a widow. And a large crowd from the city was with her. NKJ Lk. 7:12

And when He came near the gate of the city, behold, a dead man was being carried out, the CREATED DIRECT FIRST AND LAST (3439 μονογενής monogenes) son of his mother; and she was a widow. And a large crowd from the city was with her. NKJ Lk. 7:12



for he had an only (3439 μονογενής monogenes) daughter about twelve years of age, and she was dying. But as He went, the multitudes thronged Him.

for he had an CREATED DIRECT FIRST AND LAST (3439 μονογενής monogenes) daughter about twelve years of age, and she was dying. But as He went, the multitudes thronged Him.



Suddenly a man from the multitude cried out, saying, "Teacher, I implore You, look on my son, for he is my only child (3439 μονογενής monogenes). NKJ Lk. 9:38

Suddenly a man from the multitude cried out, saying, "Teacher, I implore You, look on my son, for he is my CREATED DIRECT FIRST AND LAST (3439 μονογενής monogenes). NKJ Lk. 9:38


Target text:
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten (3439 μονογενής monogenes) Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (Jn. 1:18 NKJ)



By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten (3439 μονογενής monogenes) son, NKJ Heb. 11:17

By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his CREATED DIRECT FIRST AND LAST (3439 μονογενής monogenes) son, NKJ Heb. 11:17

Just as Abraham's only Son was not a sub-human creation, the Father's only Son is not "sub-God creation".

Words mean what they mean, Jesus is the Son of God, not a creation by God. John was very clear, not one thing was created without Jesus doing the creation with His Father:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (Jn. 1:1-3 NKJ)

In the case of Jesus, he tells all he was created at Prov 8 . He was the one beside God as his master worker. Coll 1:15=The firstborn of all creation--All creation occurred at the beginning.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

He tells all he was created at Proverbs 8-He is Gods master worker. Who else would be beside God but the one whom God created all other things through. He is the Firstborn of all creation. All creation occurred at the beginning.

God didn't "create" his own wisdom. I'm only suggesting you consider what I'm saying. I learned thing in church that weren't true also.