The true teachings of Jesus

[keiw1]

Firstly, none of that addresses the point I was making. Why don't you even try to address my points? Secondly, that LORD replaces YHWH has nothing to do with God's name being removed; it's because we speak English and the OT was written in Hebrew. Thirdly, God's name isn't Yahweh or Jehovah either. Those are transliterations whose pronunciations are probably not accurate. It is absolutely irrelevant whether translations say LORD, Yahweh, or Jehovah, since the Hebrew is YHWH and that is what they are all referring to.


But JWs teach that the Word was "a god." That is another god or, to be consistent, do you want to now say that the Word is a false god? JWs have two choices: 1) the Word is another god, and so believe in polytheism, or 2) the Word is a false god, in which case, John 1:1 makes no sense.


What does the Bible say about who is to be worshiped? I think we can both agree that it is blasphemous to worship false gods:

Exo 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Exo 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

Exo 34:14 (for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God),

Mat 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
Mat 4:9 And he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me."
Mat 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"


But then we see many instances of Jesus being worshiped:

Mat 2:11 And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

Mat 14:31 Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?"
Mat 14:32 And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased.
Mat 14:33 And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."
(It is very important to also note here the use of "the Son of God".)

Mat 28:8 So they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples.
Mat 28:9 And behold, Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.
...
Mat 28:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.

Luk 24:50 Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them.
Luk 24:51 While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven.
Luk 24:52 And they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy,

Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"
Joh 9:36 He answered, "And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?"
Joh 9:37 Jesus said to him, "You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you."
Joh 9:38 He said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.
(Note that the context begins with Jesus miraculously healing of a man born blind and then asking the man if he believed "in the Son of Man.)

Heb 1:6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."


But what happens when other people or angels are worshiped?

Act 10:25 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him.
Act 10:26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am a man."

Rev 19:9 And the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These are the true words of God."
Rev 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God." For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Neither Peter nor the angel (rightly) accepted worship from people. Interestingly, though, Jesus accepted worship that was due to God alone, and didn't correct people when they did that, which would be blasphemy if he wasn't also truly God. Which brings me to 1 Cor 8:6:

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

That is Paul expanding on the Shema, with both the Father and the Son included:

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

You will also notice that "all things came" from the Father and "all things came" through Jesus, the Son. Again, like John 1:3 and Col 1:16-17, there is only one logical conclusion: Jesus cannot be one of those things or those verses are lying.

The bible is clear--you are wrong-Small g god is not calling that one the true God-Satan is called god-he is not God correct?
You wont believe Paul or Jesus-You quote 1Cor 8:6 where Paul tells all who the true God is and only the Father is called God. Deut-the word LORD does not belong there. YHWH belongs. You see how the removal of Gods name has caused confusion on matters. To mislead by satans will. His false religions keep it that way by not supporting Gods will who wants his name in every spot he put it.
Jehovah is his name. No matter what men say.

 

[keiw1]

Koine NT Greek originally was in capital letters.

Your argument the definite article THE GOD is missing in John 1:1 is contradicted by John 20:28 even in the Watch Tower's own Greek Text:

ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς, καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ, Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου.-John 20:28, Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, Produced by the New World Translation Committee, 1969 (Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society of Pennsylvania, 1969 )

John 20:28 says my Lord and my God--- I believe this--Thomas was obviously confused to begin with. He refused to believe it was Jesus without it being proven to him. When Jesus proved it to him, i believe he called Jesus Lord and called the Father his God because Jesus proved to him he was brought back to life by the only true God.
Jesus would be a liar at John 17:3 where he calls his Father( one who sent him) THE ONLY TRUE GOD-- if Jesus were God. Jesus told truth. Thus the only real explanation for Thomas statement is what i have shown, otherwise Jesus is a liar about his Father and we all know he did not lie.

 

[Free]

The bible is clear--you are wrong-Small g god is not calling that one the true God-Satan is called god-he is not God correct?

You are not at all following what I am saying. My whole point is that in John 1:1c, the NWT is in error for saying “the Word was a god.” Not once have I made the argument that “god” refers to the one true God.

You wont believe Paul or Jesus-You quote 1Cor 8:6 where Paul tells all who the true God is and only the Father is called God. Deut-the word LORD does not belong there. YHWH belongs. You see how the removal of Gods name has caused confusion on matters. To mislead by satans will. His false religions keep it that way by not supporting Gods will who wants his name in every spot he put it.
Jehovah is his name. No matter what men say.

No, his name is YHWH, not Jehovah. The OT was written in Hebrew, not English. What I said about 1 Cor 8:6 stands.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That's your opinion. But I don't recall anyone at the Kingdom Hall feeling pride because they alone "had the truth." Rather they spend many hours going door to door, and standing on street corners, to publish what they believe is the truth, wanting to share it.

But believe what you will.

You can believe they aren't
proud if you want, it’s obvious a biased opinion as you were or are one. Being one makes it hard to see pride. But I’ve dealt with them and they are very proud of belonging to God’s ONLY true church on earth and that when Jesus comes, he is taking the JWs ONLY, no one else.

Look at the title of this JW thread, the “true” (everyone else is false) teachings….pride pure.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well, not all Jews rejected our Lord. Not seeing Jesus until we learn to say, "Blessed is he who comes in his name", is true of all of us. It's an admission of humility.

Indeed, for decades the christians were all Jews. All of the apostles were. They had no problem with being a Jew and a Christian.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Yes, but it speaks of the real Jesus. there are about 4 different ones being taught in this world. And Israel has outright refused to bless him. Spiritual Israel is Gods chosen now, not Literal Israel.

Believers have always been Gods' chosen, regardless of race.
I wish you would consider this,

they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. 1Sam.8:7

This is when they wanted a human king, but later God said,

I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes? Hos.13:10

That's our King Jesus!

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Indeed, for decades the christians were all Jews. All of the apostles were. They had no problem with being a Jew and a Christian.

Right. Those Jews still teach the world about God through their writings.

 

[gordon777]

All who know how it works--YHWH does it all through Jesus. Rev 22 :16 is Jesus, but the Alpha and Omega part is not. You see at Acts 3:19, 1 Cor 8:5-6--It was God who did all the things through Jesus-That is how it works. So it can say God sent an angel as well as Jesus sent an angel.
It also says in The OT that YHWH alone created all things. But he created those things through Jesus. Thus alone means. YHWH is the only power source, it was by his will and power all things were created. Just showing Jesus didnt deserve credit for what only God could do. It worked the same with Moses. YHWH(Jehovah_ parted the red sea, Moses didnt. Moses couldnt without YHWH doing it through him. Moses doesnt deserve the credit, YHWH does. And that is how Jesus felt as well-John 5:30--He could do 0 of his own inititive.

Of course Jesus is the first and the last, He is the Amen.( everything is about Jesus, nothing is not.)

You are not honouring the Son by denying Him as the first and the last, that is doshnouring Him and we are warned to hopnour the Son EVEN AS THE FATHER.




John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

[gordon777]

You also forget that Christ is revealed as our High Priest after the order of Melchizedek to be without beginning of days, nor end of life( He is the first and the last the Alpha and the Omega.)



Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

They didn’t think that there are Jews, Christians and “messianic jews,” although they knew what price they’d pay for being christians at the hands of the jews.

Right. Those Jews still teach the world about God through their writings.

 

[gordon777]

The believers heard the Apostle to the Gentiles Apostle Paul, and took the name Christians because that is whose name God came to have, named on the Gentiles.




Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

 

[journeymanisnothing]

They didn’t think that there are Jews, Christians and “messianic jews,” although they knew what price they’d pay for being christians at the hands of the jews.

Not to mention being fed to lions, or burned at the stake.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Not to mention being fed to lions, or burned at the stake.

Or stoned like Steven. But I think the lion feed was the Romans. Burned at the stake came later.

 

[Free]

Indeed, for decades the christians were all Jews.

Not so. Right from the start, there were non-Jewish believers:

Act 2:10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome
Act 2:11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"

Act 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
Act 10:45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,
Act 10:47 "Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."
Act 10:48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Not so. Right from the start, there were non-Jewish believers:

Act 2:10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome
Act 2:11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"

Act 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
Act 10:45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,
Act 10:47 "Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."
Act 10:48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

You assume that was the start. Just because it appears in the Bible soon doesn’t mean years weren’t between the events. The first three years with Jesus was only Jews.

 

[Free]

You assume that was the start. Just because it appears in the Bible soon doesn’t mean years weren’t between the events. The first three years with Jesus was only Jews.

Firstly, don't forget that Jesus ministered to non-Jews as well, so it is quite possible that some of them became followers. Just because the twelve were Jews doesn't mean that all who followed him were Jews. Secondly, you said "decades" and three years is not even one decade. Pentecost occurred 50 days after Jesus's resurrection, when some "converts to Judaism," that is, Gentiles, became followers of Christ. And, given that Acts covers about 30 years, the events in chapter 10 would not have been that long after Pentecost.

While I am making some assumptions, they are more likely than your assumptions based on what Scripture says.

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say as I don't even know what this has to do with the topic.

 

[keiw1]

You are not at all following what I am saying. My whole point is that in John 1:1c, the NWT is in error for saying “the Word was a god.” Not once have I made the argument that “god” refers to the one true God.


No, his name is YHWH, not Jehovah. The OT was written in Hebrew, not English. What I said about 1 Cor 8:6 stands.

The NWT is correct. Some Greek scholars say its the best translation ever.

 

[keiw1]

Believers have always been Gods' chosen, regardless of race.
I wish you would consider this,

they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. 1Sam.8:7

This is when they wanted a human king, but later God said,

I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes? Hos.13:10

That's our King Jesus!

God is king of eternity. Jesus had to be appointed as king of Gods kingdom( Daniel 7:13-15)--Then he must hand it back to his God and Father and subject himself-1Cor 15:24-28--This is what the bible teaches.

 

[keiw1]

Of course Jesus is the first and the last, He is the Amen.( everything is about Jesus, nothing is not.)

You are not honouring the Son by denying Him as the first and the last, that is doshnouring Him and we are warned to hopnour the Son EVEN AS THE FATHER.




John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Jesus is first and last in a few things. But he is not God. Yes Jesus gets honor, and bowed to in obeisance as Gods appointed king.

 

[Free]

The NWT is correct.

If it is, then, as I have shown, it refers to Jesus as ho theos, which means that it does teach that Jesus is truly God and "a god" is incorrect.

Some Greek scholars say its the best translation ever.

No reputable scholar would say that.