The week of the Passion

[tim-from-pa]

This kind of thread comes up every year and I jokingly say I know when it's near Good Friday or Easter when this is constantly brought up.

The issue of dying and resurrection dates and days of the week is a calendar issue, right? Right!

So, what is better than Yahweh's calendar showing the "feasts of the Lord" and types and shadows? It's not my calendar, but Yahweh's.

So, I will merely report it.

Nisan 14 Passover (late in the day): Yeshua is crucified and died to fulfill the Passover
Nisan 15 Unleavened Bread: The sinless body of Yeshua interred. He was interred late in the 14th for the 15th to start (dawn) since the gospels say the Sabbath (i.e. High Sabbath of Unleavened Bread) was starting. Now, that is the end 14th/start of 15th (sundown). So far simple, right?

Yeshua said he'd be in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights, ie. 72 hours or 3 calendar days. (Matthew 12:40)

Now..... simple math....
14/15 + 3 = 17/18th, i.e. he raised late in the day on the 17th as the 18th was dawning at sundown.

Now..... the 18th is Firstfruits, signifying Yeshua's resurrection. We know that was always the "morrow after the Sabbath" or Sunday.

Now..... if the 18th on any calendar is on a Sunday, then what day of the week is the 14th, the day he was crucified? Wednesday.

So, there's Yahweh's calendar and math all making sense and perfect.

So now we all have our calendar and times straight now and can close this thread. No more arguing. :toofunny

 

[Sinthesis]

A quick point. If Jesus had been resurrected on the sabbath, then God can't be said to have rested on that day. I can think of no compelling reason for Jesus to have been resurrected before sundown Saturday night. There are plenty of reasons to accept He rose on the first day of the week.

One more reason is that Christ is First Fruit from Dead; he resurrected First Fruit Sunday

So is every Sunday a 'First Fruit Sunday'?

 

[Sparkey]

Well, perhaps there will be no more arguing but there will be (I predict) a difference of opinion.
This comes from the consideration that not all periods of time that are called a day are precisely 24 hours, starting at one second and ending 60 x 60 x 24, or 86,400 seconds total.

What day were you born on? Using our calendar, and if you state your date of birth (no need, this is for example only), you may guess my next question, "Does this mean you were born precisely at midnight at the start of that day?" Technically that would be night, but you know what I mean. Don't you?

 

[Sparkey]

A quick point. If Jesus had been resurrected on the sabbath, then God can't be said to have rested on that day. I can think of no compelling reason for Jesus to have been resurrected before sundown Saturday night. There are plenty of reasons to accept He rose on the first day of the week.

One more reason is that Christ is First Fruit from Dead; he resurrected First Fruit Sunday

So is every Sunday a 'First Fruit Sunday'?

Well that's the essence of the discussion, isn't it?

Let's look at the "Feast of First Fruits" for 2013 on our calendar. For this I turn to http://www.bethhashem.org/biblical-feasts/
Here's what they say:

These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. (Lev 23:4 KJV)

All Jewish holidays begin at sundown on the evening before the date shown.

Purim
2013: February 24 [Sunday]
2014: March 16 [Sunday]
2015: March 5 [Thursday]

Pesach/Passover
2013: March 26 [Tue]
2014: April 15 [Tue]
2015: April 4 [Sat]

Feast of Unleavened Bread
2012: April 8-14 [Sun - Sat]
2013: March 25- April 01 [Mon - Mon]
2014: April 15-21 [Tue - Mon]
2015: April 2-10 [Thu - Fri]

Feast of First Fruits
2013: March 26 [Tue]
2014: April 16 [Wed]
2015: April 3 [Fri]

Note: I've used the calendar creator found at http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/generate.html. All days were calculated for locations within the U.S. Our friends from Australia may have different days associated for some dates and days due to international date/day-lines.

 

[Slider]

Let's take the moment to actually quote what we are speaking about then.

One allegation is based on what is said in the first verse of Matthew 28

Matt.28

[1] In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

I've already explained this.... It was not after the sabbath but in the end of it.... Around 6 PM Saturday. In any sense, he was already gone.

Mark 16:9 explains when he appeared to Mary.

 

[Slider]

A quick point. If Jesus had been resurrected on the sabbath, then God can't be said to have rested on that day. I can think of no compelling reason for Jesus to have been resurrected before sundown Saturday night. There are plenty of reasons to accept He rose on the first day of the week.

God gave the sabbath day to man for the man's day of rest.

 

[Goinheix]

A quick point. If Jesus had been resurrected on the sabbath, then God can't be said to have rested on that day. I can think of no compelling reason for Jesus to have been resurrected before sundown Saturday night. There are plenty of reasons to accept He rose on the first day of the week.

One more reason is that Christ is First Fruit from Dead; he resurrected First Fruit Sunday

So is every Sunday a 'First Fruit Sunday'?

It is all the way arround. First Fruits is always, every year a Sunday.
Matthew and Mark say that Jesus resurrected the first day of the weeks. The first day of the weeks refers to the seven weeks. The fisrt day of the seven weeks (ending at Penthecost) is Fisrt Fruit.

 

[Slider]

My mistake
Matthew 28 say that when the women arrived it was early Sunday
Mark 16:9 is saying that Jesus did resurrect on Sunday.
Jesus did resurrect on Sunday

Now prove me wrong

I just did..... THe Bible says it was before the sabbath ended when they found the tomb empty in Mat 28. So no he didn't rise on SUnday.... I

NO. the Bible is not saying that Jesus resurrected BEFORE THE SABBATH ENDED.
Mark is saying that Jesus resurrected on Sunday.

Once again, Matthew says:

Matt.28

[1] In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. (KJV)

It was not after the sabbath. Jesus was already gone.

In Mark 16:9, this is when he appeared to Mary and the others. When you take in everything, it cannot work any other way except a Wednesday crucifixion and a Saturday ressurection. You have to ignore stuff in the Bible (like the roman soldiers guarding and like when the women bought and prepared the spices) or you have to say stuff like, "3 days and 3 nights doesn't really mean 3 twenty-four hour periods".

 

[Goinheix]

New International Version (©2011)
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Early on Sunday morning, as the new day was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went out to visit the tomb.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to view the tomb.
International Standard Version (©2012)
After the Sabbaths, around dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to take a look at the burial site.
NET Bible (©2006)
Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
But on the eve of the Sabbath, when the first of the week was dawning, Maryam Magdalitha and the other Maryam came to see the tomb.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
After the day of worship, as the sun rose Sunday morning, Mary from Magdala and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
At the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.
American King James Version
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.
American Standard Version
Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Douay-Rheims Bible
AND in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.
Darby Bible Translation
Now late on sabbath, as it was the dusk of the next day after sabbath, came Mary of Magdala and the other Mary to look at the sepulchre.
English Revised Version
Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Webster's Bible Translation
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.
Weymouth New Testament
After the Sabbath, in the early dawn of the first day of the week, Mary of Magdala and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre.
World English Bible
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.Young's Literal Translation
And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
In the end of the sabbath - The word "end" here means the same as "after" the Sabbath - that is, after the Sabbath was fully completed or finished, and may be expressed in this manner: "In the night following the Sabbath, for the Sabbath closed at sunset, as it began to dawn," etc.As it began to dawn toward the first day of the week - The word "dawn" is not of necessity in the original. The word there properly means as the first day "approached," or drew on, without specifying the precise time. Mark says Mark 16:1-2 that it was after "the sabbath was past, and very early in the morning, at the rising of the sun" - that is, not that the sun "was risen," but that it was about to rise, or at the early break of day. Luke says Luke 24:1 that it was "very early in the morning;" in the Greek text, "deep twilight," or when there was scarcely any light. John Joh 20:1 says it was "very early, while it was yet dark" - that is, it was not yet full daylight, or the sun had not yet risen. The time when they came, therefore, was at the break of day, when the sun was about to rise, but while it was yet so dark as to render objects obscure, or not distinctly visible.

 

[Sparkey]

First Fruits is always, every year a Sunday.

There is some controversy here too, my friend.


Click image above to follow link to source

The article accompanying the picture above goes on to state:

The article accompanying the picture above goes on to state:

Reproduced under "Fair Use". Author and Copyright holder: John J. Parsons of Hebrew for Christians

We may see that although there are differences between the calendars that are used, and that they may be resolved, we might not be able to find such resolution on this controversial subject.

Certainly each Member has their opinion about it. Suffice it to say that what we can agree on is of much greater import than what is being disputed.

The important matter is settled. Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and was raised on the third day (1 Cor 15:3-4). Our Members are free to discuss the issues raised while trying to resolve controversy, but let us each keep in mind the very fact that we are here, talking about this is only substantiated by the statement:

HE IS RISEN! This is the message that Mary of Magdala heard and spoke that fine day not that long ago.

 

[Goinheix]

New International Version (©2011)
When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene,out of whom he had driven seven demons.

New Living Translation (©2007)
After Jesus rose from the dead early on Sunday morning, the first person who saw him was Mary Magdalene, the woman from whom he had cast out seven demons.
English Standard Version (©2001)
[[Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had driven seven demons.
International Standard Version (©2012)
After Jesus had risen early on the first day of that week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had driven out seven demons.
NET Bible (©2006)
[[Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had driven out seven demons.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
But at dawn, on the first day of the week, he arose and appeared first to Maryam Magdalitha, from whom he had cast out seven demons.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
After Jesus came back to life early on Sunday, he appeared first to Mary from Magdala, from whom he had forced out seven demons.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven demons.
American King James Version
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
American Standard Version
Now when he was risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.
Douay-Rheims Bible
But he rising early the first day of the week, appeared first to Mary Magdalen, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Darby Bible Translation
Now when he had risen very early, the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary of Magdala, out of whom he had cast seven demons.
English Revised Version
Now when he was risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven devils.
Webster's Bible Translation
Now when Jesus was risen early, the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven demons.
Weymouth New Testament
But He rose to life early on the first day of the week, and appeared first to Mary of Magdala from whom He had expelled seven demons.
World English Bible
Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.Young's Literal Translation
And he, having risen in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, did appear first to Mary the Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven demons;

 

[Goinheix]

The important matter is that we have to understand all details of the crucifixion and resurrection.
The matter is so important that brother will continue to participate in a very active manner.
Some of us are seeking for the trith; ...
But the matter is so greately importasnd that both will do whatever to achieve the goal: ... .

 

[Sparkey]

You know, I've tried nicely to discourage you from making comments about the man, to encourage you to keep your comments on the subject directed to the subject. You have crossed this line with me before and I have warned you, informally, Zeleste. This time, your post will be edited (or deleted) as I now look to enforce the warning. Cease the activity you are being corrected for and desist (do not take it up again, not with me, not with any other).

Cordially,
Sparrowhawke

 

[tim-from-pa]

Well, perhaps there will be no more arguing but there will be (I predict) a difference of opinion.
This comes from the consideration that not all periods of time that are called a day are precisely 24 hours, starting at one second and ending 60 x 60 x 24, or 86,400 seconds total.

What day were you born on? Using our calendar, and if you state your date of birth (no need, this is for example only), you may guess my next question, "Does this mean you were born precisely at midnight at the start of that day?" Technically that would be night, but you know what I mean. Don't you?

I think you are dancing around the issue and creating gray areas. I think I laid out Yehweh's timeline and calendar precisely. Now, instead of the rhetorical questions to make it fit some other preconceived idea, why not state specifically what you disagree with on that timeline?

 

[Goinheix]

Proceeding forward to the goal of the truth:

Opsy mean the first of four parts of the night.
35“Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn.

 

[Sparkey]

You know, I've tried nicely to discourage you from making comments about the man, to encourage you to keep your comments on the subject directed to the subject. You have crossed this line with me before and I have warned you, informally, Zeleste. This time, your post will be edited (or deleted) as I now look to enforce the warning. Cease the activity you are being corrected for and desist (do not take it up again, not with me, not with any other).

Cordially,
Sparrowhawke

I can notice how extremely important for you is to silence this treath.

You are new, and I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here. That's all. If you have further observations that you would like to make you may PM (send me a Private Message). You are also invited to start a thread in the "Talk With The Staff" forum. This is a more formal remedy path that is typically reserved for formal warnings and infractions given by a Moderator.

In the meantime, and while you consider your options, I will remind you to read the Terms of Service.

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NOTE: From your top blue menu bar, click [Quick Links] for the Drop Down Menu and then choose "Terms of Service" to view.

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The Terms that you have agreed to also include prohibitions against making public replies to Moderator Actions. Kindly keep this in mind as I do not wish to see these rules act to limit your conversation here in an undue fashion. Again, you are free to speak as you wish, but your assertion that you alone possess the truth may very well provoke replies. These replies will be welcomed as we strive together toward peace.

 

[reba]

Seems we are writing at the same time, only that I type slower.

I didnt know you are a moderator.
Now I know and I quit talking to you.
But I will continue to post the truth of how it was the real pasion of Christ as we can read in the Bible.

Does not matter that Sparrow is a moderator your rudeness has not gone unnoticed. Being rude to members is not acceptable. Staff

 

[Goinheix]

In reference to the crucifixion we have two aspects to determine: the day of the week and the date of the month.

I guess it was proven that Jesus did resurrect on Sunday.
That Jesus was dead for three days and three night, making the crucifixion day on Thursday.
That the Gospels do not mention the Friday at all.
That Matthew mention two consecutive sabbath days (thosee between Thu and Sun)

I also guess that it was proven that Jesus ended Nisan 14th alive and free.
That Jesus were not crucified on the High Sabbath Nisan 15th.
That Jesus were crucified on a preparation day for a High Sabbath of Passover.
That the two High Sabbath of Passover are the 15th and th 21st, being preparation day the 14th (wich Jesus ended alive and free) and the 20th.

Aditional I guees it was proven that Jesus were not crucified the same day of his arrest.
That the Gospels describe very long trials.
That the Gospels record several sunrises (several days)
That John states that Jesus was at pilates one day and was crucified next day.

Those are facts direct from the Bible.

This all about:
Jesus were arrested the morning of the 15th and crucified the morning of the Thursday 20th.

 

[Sparkey]

I didnt know you are a moderator.

The fact that I am a moderator has nothing to do with the respect that I demand to be given to each and every MEMBER here. There are many brothers and sisters in the Lord that are present and it is the respect that is due to HIM (our Risen Lord) that must be insisted on. This is the same respect that I give to you, sir. No more, no less.

 

[Sparkey]

You may answer to the thread and continue your discussion. You are correct to use restraint and the PM direct replies to Moderator correction. I do appreciate your willingness to be corrected here. We've discussed "clarity" before and in the future, with you, I will post my "Moderator" thoughts in red color and sign them with "Your Moderator" so that they are unmistakable.

Signed,
Your Moderator

PS Let me again apologize for my part of the confusion and encourage you to resume your discussion.