The week of the Passion

[Goinheix]

In reference to the crucifixion we have two aspects to determine: the day of the week and the date of the month.

I guess it was proven that Jesus did resurrect on Sunday.
That Jesus was dead for three days and three night, making the crucifixion day on Thursday.
That the Gospels do not mention the Friday at all.
That Matthew mention two consecutive sabbath days (thosee between Thu and Sun)

I also guess that it was proven that Jesus ended Nisan 14th alive and free.
That Jesus were not crucified on the High Sabbath Nisan 15th.
That Jesus were crucified on a preparation day for a High Sabbath of Passover.
That the two High Sabbath of Passover are the 15th and th 21st, being preparation day the 14th (wich Jesus ended alive and free) and the 20th.

Aditional I guees it was proven that Jesus were not crucified the same day of his arrest.
That the Gospels describe very long trials.
That the Gospels record several sunrises (several days)
That John states that Jesus was at pilates one day and was crucified next day.

Those are facts direct from the Bible.

This all about:
Jesus were arrested the morning of the 15th and crucified the morning of the Thursday 20th.

OK
this what really matters.
lets focus in the treath.
I am sure it will be of great blessing
Now we have the answers that christians have been searching for almost 20 centuries.

 

[Sparkey]

Well, perhaps there will be no more arguing but there will be (I predict) a difference of opinion.
This comes from the consideration that not all periods of time that are called a day are precisely 24 hours, starting at one second and ending 60 x 60 x 24, or 86,400 seconds total.

What day were you born on? Using our calendar, and if you state your date of birth (no need, this is for example only), you may guess my next question, "Does this mean you were born precisely at midnight at the start of that day?" Technically that would be night, but you know what I mean. Don't you?

I think you are dancing around the issue and creating gray areas. I think I laid out Yehweh's timeline and calendar precisely. Now, instead of the rhetorical questions to make it fit some other preconceived idea, why not state specifically what you disagree with on that timeline?

Greetings tim-from-pa,

I can see where you (and others) may get the impression that I am "dancing around" here. I do not intend to "dance" as much as I would like to facilitate your discussion. Does it really matter what I think? How may I best help you express your idea? Seems to me that it is well formed and well stated.

This kind of thread comes up every year and I jokingly say I know when it's near Good Friday or Easter when this is constantly brought up.

The issue of dying and resurrection dates and days of the week is a calendar issue, right? Right!

So, what is better than Yahweh's calendar showing the "feasts of the Lord" and types and shadows? It's not my calendar, but Yahweh's.

So, I will merely report it.

Nisan 14 Passover (late in the day): Yeshua is crucified and died to fulfill the Passover
Nisan 15 Unleavened Bread: The sinless body of Yeshua interred. He was interred late in the 14th for the 15th to start (dawn) since the gospels say the Sabbath (i.e. High Sabbath of Unleavened Bread) was starting. Now, that is the end 14th/start of 15th (sundown). So far simple, right?

Yeshua said he'd be in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights, ie. 72 hours or 3 calendar days. (Matthew 12:40)

Now..... simple math....
14/15 + 3 = 17/18th, i.e. he raised late in the day on the 17th as the 18th was dawning at sundown.

Now..... the 18th is Firstfruits, signifying Yeshua's resurrection. We know that was always the "morrow after the Sabbath" or Sunday.

Now..... if the 18th on any calendar is on a Sunday, then what day of the week is the 14th, the day he was crucified? Wednesday.

So, there's Yahweh's calendar and math all making sense and perfect.

So now we all have our calendar and times straight now and can close this thread. No more arguing. :toofunny

 

[Goinheix]

the next thing we will do is to discover what hapened from the arrest on the 15th all the way to the crucifixion on the 20th.
we will do that, day by day with the guide of the Gospels.

 

[Sparkey]

Jesus were arrested the morning of the 15th and crucified the morning of the Thursday 20th.

Now..... if the 18th on any calendar is on a Sunday, then what day of the week is the 14th, the day he was crucified? Wednesday.

Confusion comes when two conflicting ideas are taken together without attaching significant weight to one over the other. How may we resolve this apparent contradiction?

Another point of conflict has been raised (and perhaps resolved?) about what the Synoptic Gospels say, specifically what conclusion may properly be drawn from the comparison of Matthew 28:1,5-6 ("for He is not here") and Mark 16:9. Has this apparent conflict been resolved? When did Jesus rise? Was it on or before the dawn of the first day of the week? Do we have authoritative evidence to support our conclusion that there is no contradiction in Scripture? I know we do. Your thoughts, please?

 

[Goinheix]

Jesus were arrested the morning of the 15th and crucified the morning of the Thursday 20th.

Now..... if the 18th on any calendar is on a Sunday, then what day of the week is the 14th, the day he was crucified? Wednesday.

Confusion comes when two conflicting ideas are taken together without attaching significant weight to one over the other. How may we resolve this apparent contradiction?

Another point of conflict has been raised (and perhaps resolved?) about what the Synoptic Gospels say, specifically what conclusion may properly be drawn from the comparison of Matthew 28:1,5-6 ("for He is not here") and Mark 16:9. Has this apparent conflict been resolved? When did Jesus rise? Was it on or before the dawn of the first day of the week? Do we have authoritative evidence to support our conclusion that there is no contradiction in Scripture? I know we do. Your thoughts, please?

I will not replay to you.

 

[Goinheix]

In reference to the crucifixion we have two aspects to determine: the day of the week and the date of the month.

I guess it was proven that Jesus did resurrect on Sunday.
That Jesus was dead for three days and three night, making the crucifixion day on Thursday.
That the Gospels do not mention the Friday at all.
That Matthew mention two consecutive sabbath days (thosee between Thu and Sun)

I also guess that it was proven that Jesus ended Nisan 14th alive and free.
That Jesus were not crucified on the High Sabbath Nisan 15th.
That Jesus were crucified on a preparation day for a High Sabbath of Passover.
That the two High Sabbath of Passover are the 15th and th 21st, being preparation day the 14th (wich Jesus ended alive and free) and the 20th.

Aditional I guees it was proven that Jesus were not crucified the same day of his arrest.
That the Gospels describe very long trials.
That the Gospels record several sunrises (several days)
That John states that Jesus was at pilates one day and was crucified next day.

Those are facts direct from the Bible.

This all about:
Jesus were arrested the morning of the 15th and crucified the morning of the Thursday 20th.

OK
this what really matters.
lets focus in the treath.
I am sure it will be of great blessing
Now we have the answers that christians have been searching for almost 20 centuries.

Is it any doubt about the above?
Those are fact we can read in our Bible.
Is it any argument in contrary of what it has been proven?

 

[tim-from-pa]

the next thing we will do is to discover what hapened from the arrest on the 15th all the way to the crucifixion on the 20th.
we will do that, day by day with the guide of the Gospels.

And the $64,000 question of the day is how can Yeshua be our Passover Lamb if he did not even die on Passover? That was the whole point of the feast days in Leviticus 23--- they show Yeshua's work in the redemption of man.

To be sure, people have came up with all types of timelines in the gospels to prove their calendar of events, as you have yours as well. But when there's disagreement, these feasts are what clinch the actual dates and what really happened. Both OT and NT have to agree. Yeshua's death on a certain day was long ordained.

 

[Goinheix]

9When Jesus rose early on the first day of the weeks, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene,out of whom he had driven seven demons.

There is not room to any doubt. The Bible clearly states that Jesus rose on the first day of the weeks.
The first day of the weeks is out of any question the day of the first fruits.
The day of the first fruit we know for sure that is always in Sunday-

Jesus did resurrect on First Fruits Sunday.
If we have any doubt about that, we have doubt of our salvation.
Mark 16:9 is telling us that Jesus was resurrected. Do we have doubts?
Mark 16:9 is telling that Jesus was resurrected on First Fruits Sunday. Do we have any doubt?
If we dount of part of Mark 16:9, we can not be sure of any of Mark 16:9

By the way... we have the confirmation in Matthew 28:1.

 

[reba]

[MENTION=52486]tim-from-pa[/MENTION] a question .... I believe it to be on topic if your don't agree PM ok?

Where ,did ,does, if, the 'year of Jubilee ' fit into The life of Jesus?

 

[Goinheix]

the next thing we will do is to discover what hapened from the arrest on the 15th all the way to the crucifixion on the 20th.
we will do that, day by day with the guide of the Gospels.

And the $64,000 question of the day is how can Yeshua be our Passover Lamb if he did not even die on Passover? That was the whole point of the feast days in Leviticus 23--- they show Yeshua's work in the redemption of man.

To be sure, people have came up with all types of timelines in the gospels to prove their calendar of events, as you have yours as well. But when there's disagreement, these feasts are what clinch the actual dates and what really happened. Both OT and NT have to agree. Yeshua's death on a certain day was long ordained.

Where do I get the $64,000?

Leviticus 23 describe the Passover as a week long fest. Passover, also named IUnleavened Bread is a one week fest. In that fest, there is one passover lamb being sacrificed every day. It was not necesary for Christ to die the first day, but in any day of the seven that extend the fest.

Any how, the synoptics are absolutely clear that Jesus ended alive and free that day you supose he shall be crucified. Do you denay the synoptics?

 

[Goinheix]

9When Jesus rose early on the first day of the weeks, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene,out of whom he had driven seven demons.

There is not room to any doubt. The Bible clearly states that Jesus rose on the first day of the weeks.
The first day of the weeks is out of any question the day of the first fruits.
The day of the first fruit we know for sure that is always in Sunday-

Jesus did resurrect on First Fruits Sunday.
If we have any doubt about that, we have doubt of our salvation.
Mark 16:9 is telling us that Jesus was resurrected. Do we have doubts?
Mark 16:9 is telling that Jesus was resurrected on First Fruits Sunday. Do we have any doubt?
If we dount of part of Mark 16:9, we can not be sure of any of Mark 16:9

By the way... we have the confirmation in Matthew 28:1.

1After the Sabbaths, at dawn on the first day of the weeks, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

Matthew 28:1 is not only telling us that Jesus resurrected the first day of the weeks (first fruiot sunday). It also tell us about some sabbaths (more than one) preceding that resurrection Sunday. One of those sabbaths was the Saturday (according to Matthew) and the other was the High Sabbath of Passover (according to Mathew).

The Gospels are very clear that Jesus was crucified on Thu and resurrected on Sun

 

[Sparkey]

I will not replay to you.

That's okay. I'm not really asking for your reply. I'm speaking to the thread. There is no need for your to reply to me directly but as you have so frequently said this is a subject of some import.

Shall we continue the discussion then? May I suggest that you simply assume that there is no need to say again what has been said as you go forward. You will notice (as I do) though, that the others who have spoken in thread have questions that remain unanswered.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Leviticus 23 describe the Passover as a week long fest. Passover, also named IUnleavened Bread is a one week fest. In that fest, there is one passover lamb being sacrificed every day. It was not necesary for Christ to die the first day, but in any day of the seven that extend the fest.

Any how, the synoptics are absolutely clear that Jesus ended alive and free that day you supose he shall be crucified. Do you denay the synoptics?

No, my friend. Go back to the first Passover out of Egypt. What day of the month was the Lamb killed? What day of the month was Unleavened Bread started? And what about Firstfruits? (they celebrated that later in the land). Does the burial and resurrection come before his death? A lamb every day does not cut it. There were constant offerings morning and evening. There were all types of offerings of meat, grain, peace, sin and trespass, there were new moon offerings, and there were many during the other feasts as well. They were offering constantly. So, one cannot claim that fact to take liberty to fit Yeshua's death on any day they choose. I think the bible is more than abundantly clear that the lamb was slain on the evening of the 14th.

 

[Goinheix]

I will not replay to you.

That's okay. I'm not really asking for your reply. I'm speaking to the thread. There is no need for your to reply to me directly but as you have so frequently said this is a subject of some import.

Shall we continue the discussion then? May I suggest that you simply assume that there is no need to say again what has been said as you go forward. You will notice (as I do) though, that the others who have spoken in thread have questions that remain unanswered.

I dont know of any question remaining unaswered. All questions were well adressed and answered. The subject is so far very clear.

 

[Sparkey]

question of the day is how can Yeshua be our Passover Lamb if he did not even die on Passover? That was the whole point of the feast days in Leviticus 23--- they show Yeshua's work in the redemption of man.

Here is the Scripture quoted:

Feasts of the Lord

Lev 23:1 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, These are the appointed feasts of the Lord that you shall proclaim as holy convocations; they are my appointed feasts.

The Sabbath

Lev 3:3 “Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work. It is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwelling places.

The Passover

Lev 3:4-8 “These are the appointed feasts of the Lord, the holy convocations, which you shall proclaim at the time appointed for them. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight,[a] is the Lord's Passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work. But you shall present a food offering to the Lord for seven days. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work.”

The Feast of Firstfruits

Lev 3:9-14 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When you come into the land that I give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest, and he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, so that you may be accepted. On the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. And on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb a year old without blemish as a burnt offering to the Lord. And the grain offering with it shall be two tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, a food offering to the Lord with a pleasing aroma, and the drink offering with it shall be of wine, a fourth of a hin.[c] And you shall eat neither bread nor grain parched or fresh until this same day, until you have brought the offering of your God: it is a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

Footnotes:

[a] Leviticus 23:5 Hebrew between the two evenings
Leviticus 23:13 An ephah was about 3/5 bushel or 22 liters
[c] Leviticus 23:13 A hin was about 4 quarts or 3.5 liters

 

[Goinheix]

Leviticus 23 describe the Passover as a week long fest. Passover, also named IUnleavened Bread is a one week fest. In that fest, there is one passover lamb being sacrificed every day. It was not necesary for Christ to die the first day, but in any day of the seven that extend the fest.

Any how, the synoptics are absolutely clear that Jesus ended alive and free that day you supose he shall be crucified. Do you denay the synoptics?

No, my friend. Go back to the first Passover out of Egypt. What day of the month was the Lamb killed? What day of the month was Unleavened Bread started? And what about Firstfruits? (they celebrated that later in the land). Does the burial and resurrection come before his death? A lamb every day does not cut it. There were constant offerings morning and evening. There were all types of offerings of meat, grain, peace, sin and trespass, there were new moon offerings, and there were many during the other feasts as well. They were offering constantly. So, one cannot claim that fact to take liberty to fit Yeshua's death on any day they choose. I think the bible is more than abundantly clear that the lamb was slain on the evening of the 14th.

16“ ‘On the fourteenth day of the first month the Lord’s Passover is to be held. 17On the fifteenth day of this month there is to be a festival; for seven days eat bread made without yeast. 18On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 19Present to the Lord a food offering consisting of a burnt offering of two young bulls, one ram and seven male lambs a year old, all without defect. 20With each bull offer a grain offering of three-tenths of an ephah of the finest flour mixed with oil; with the ram, two-tenths; 21and with each of the seven lambs, one-tenth. 22Include one male goat as a sin offering to make atonement for you. 23Offer these in addition to the regular morning burnt offering. 24In this way present the food offering every day for seven days as an aroma pleasing to the Lord; it is to be offered in addition to the regular burnt offering and its drink offering. 25On the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.

The Passover is a seven days fest, with a passover lamb being affered each of the seven days.

You own me $64,000

 

[Goinheix]

question of the day is how can Yeshua be our Passover Lamb if he did not even die on Passover? That was the whole point of the feast days in Leviticus 23--- they show Yeshua's work in the redemption of man.

Here is the Scripture quoted:

Feasts of the Lord

Lev 23:1 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, These are the appointed feasts of the Lord that you shall proclaim as holy convocations; they are my appointed feasts.

The Sabbath

Lev 3:3 “Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work. It is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwelling places.

The Passover

Lev 3:4-8 “These are the appointed feasts of the Lord, the holy convocations, which you shall proclaim at the time appointed for them. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight,[a] is the Lord's Passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work. But you shall present a food offering to the Lord for seven days. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work.â€

The Feast of Firstfruits

Lev 3:9-14 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When you come into the land that I give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest, and he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, so that you may be accepted. On the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. And on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb a year old without blemish as a burnt offering to the Lord. And the grain offering with it shall be two tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, a food offering to the Lord with a pleasing aroma, and the drink offering with it shall be of wine, a fourth of a hin.[c] And you shall eat neither bread nor grain parched or fresh until this same day, until you have brought the offering of your God: it is a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

Footnotes:

[a] Leviticus 23:5 Hebrew between the two evenings
Leviticus 23:13 An ephah was about 3/5 bushel or 22 liters
[c] Leviticus 23:13 A hin was about 4 quarts or 3.5 liters

Seven days.
$64,000

 

[tim-from-pa]

The Passover is a seven days fest, with a passover lamb being affered each of the seven days.

You own me $64,000

Yeah, right. OK. You say the 20th he was crucified. I say it was the 17th. No, the 19th. Whatever. So, now whose right? All 7 days are valid. You said so yourself. You just left what I stated go into one ear and out the other beause you have this idea in your head that it's not the 14th so you convolute the gospels to support your view.

I'm not even going to debate any more such nonsense. The Passover Lamb death started with Egypt, and that was not on any day except the 14th. Take it up with Yahweh. It's his calendar, not mine.

 

[reba]

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

 

[Goinheix]

The Passover is a seven days fest, with a passover lamb being affered each of the seven days.

You own me $64,000

Yeah, right. OK. You say the 20th he was crucified. I say it was the 17th. No, the 19th. Whatever. So, now whose right? All 7 days are valid. You said so yourself. You just left what I stated go into one ear and out the other beause you have this idea in your head that it's not the 14th so you convolute the gospels to support your view.

I'm not even going to debate any more such nonsense. The Passover Lamb death started with Egypt, and that was not on any day except the 14th. Take it up with Yahweh. It's his calendar, not mine.

If you did run out of arguments it is OK to quit this debate. What we surely know is that the 14th, Jesus was not crucified.

17On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”
12On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus’ disciples asked him, “Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”
7Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.”

$64,000