Bible Study The Work of God: Terminal Agitation Ending in Silence

[smaller]

Where does it say Jesus lusted?

Chapter and verse please.

James linked temptation to lust:

James 1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

I didn't claim Jesus lusted.

Jethro is claiming that Jesus was sexually attracted to women and had to resist His natural sexual inclinations towards women with whom He desired to engage, sexually, in His Mind, via (what Jethro terms natural temptations) temptations to have sex with women in His Mind.

 

[smaller]

I'm sorry old friend, but I know what Smaller believes, and have spent the last year in discussion after discussion with him.

Smaller believes:

I'd thank you to refrain from speaking for me as you are typically not all that accurate, and you are not accurate in ANY of the below statements whatsoever. I honestly don't know what either you or Jethro hear in your own heads claiming to be what I'm writing about, but NONE of the below is remotely truthful or accurate.

• Satan dwells in our flesh, and is the one doing the sinning, and not the person.
• God made Adam sin because that was God's plan all along.
• No one has the ability to choose right or wrong. No Freewill.

Shame on your misrepresentations.

 

[smaller]

Can you show me one post where someone has tried to justify sin?

You got quite lost on the subject matter quite a few posts back when you claimed Paul was not a sinner.

Why your positions continue to try to justify indwelling sin/evil present which are hard line scriptural facts for all of us, is beyond me. IF Romans 7:17-21 was a fact for Paul then it is likewise for all of us. And as such there is absolutely NO WAY to justify indwelling sin or evil present, PERIOD. Not by choices or actions.

Indwelling sin/evil present are never obedient, never legal, and never cooperative with the Gospel or Gods Word/Works and Ways in general. But these working facts of INDWELLING SIN/EVIL PRESENT with us actually work CONVERSELY or against and contrary to Gods Word/Works/Ways. Which confirms the reality of Mark 4:15 for the believer. And theft of Word from believers is one of many adverse to God SINS of Satan that transpires IN the flesh of believers.

The instant anyone realizes that internal temptations transpire (ding) internally and are of the TEMPTER, that places the TEMPTER internally in their MIND to do so. And yes, the TEMPTER is a sinner. 1 John 3:8.

We know that Jesus was tempted, but I do not consider Jesus' temptations were "internal." The prince of this world had nothing "IN HIM." Therefore there is a differentiation in His Temptations to our own. Being tempted like we are with the massive exception of being without SIN is a huge difference in temptation. We also know that Satan, the devil, DID tempt Jesus. His Temptations were external via an entity that was not Him nor in Him.

We also know that the SPIRIT led Jesus to be TEMPTED by the devil, Satan.

Our temptations are from the same source as Jesus' Temptations, Satan, who is compelled and moved IN MAN to resist/steal/blind/destroy/kill/buffet/tempt Gods Words/Works/Ways.

When scriptures observe man, scripture sees TWO PARTIES, mankind and Satan/devils. This fact is shown throughout the N.T. in scriptures such as Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2, Romans 11:32, 1 John 3:8 and many many others.

I don't honestly know how ANY reader could miss this obvious TWO PARTY FACT as it is sooo pronounced throughout the N.T. unless those facts are in fact STOLEN from their minds, proving the principle of Mark 4:15. Jesus DIVIDED or DIFFERENTIATED man from devil on nearly every page of the Gospels.

Paul saw these matters as scriptures propose as well, and even laid that same understanding on his own flesh. Romans 7:21, Romans 11:32, 2 Cor. 12:7, Gal. 4:13-14, Gal. 4:29, Gal. 5:17, 1 Tim. 2:20-21 etc. etc.

 

[JLB]

I'd thank you to refrain from speaking for me as you are typically not all that accurate, and you are not accurate in ANY of the below statements whatsoever. I honestly don't know what either you or Jethro hear in your own heads claiming to be what I'm writing about, but NONE of the below is remotely truthful or accurate.



Shame on your misrepresentations.

Nice try, but you have made it clear that you believe and teach that Satan dwells in our flesh, which you contrive from 2 Corinthians 12:7.

And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 1 Corinthians 12:7

From this scripture you have created a doctrine that Satan dwells in our flesh, even though it was thoroughly explained to you, that this condition was unique to Paul... because of the abundant revelations given to him, lest he be exalted above measure.

Furthermore, you claimed it is Satan in our flesh, who does the sinning and not the person themselves, resulting in Satan, the one sinning going to hell, and the person himself, through which the sinning was done remains innocent and welcomed into heaven.

You refer to this phenomenon as the "parties", which is a reference to devils dwelling in the flesh of everyone, including Adam, even before he sinned.

To further establish this doctrine you cite 1 John 3:8, as "proof" that we all have Satan dwelling in our flesh, "doing the sinning".

You strongly argue that "sin is of the devil", who dwells in or flesh, and post this scripture reference as proof. 1 John 3:8

8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

When I pointed out that it was "he" who sins is of the devil, and not "sin is of the devil" you strongly argued, talking in circles and claimed I was blinded by Satan, and couldn't see the truth of your mysterious "doctrine".


Then you also cite 2 Timothy 2:20 to validate your "doctrine", claiming that within each of us is a vessel of honor and a vessel of dishonor.

One being the Christian himself, and the other being Satan who dwells in our flesh, and does the sinning.

When I point out to you, that we are members of a great house, and are either a vessel of honor or a vessel of dishonor, you just say i"m deceive and Satan has blinded me.

19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:19-21

We are called to "cleanse ourself" from being a vessel of dishonor, so that we will be a vessel of honor, fit for the master's use.



There are many more scriptures that you have misquoted in this manner, in which you claim all of what you teach is "from the bible".

Anytime I ask you to answer a question, or to post a scripture, you "make up" something I didn't say, and create an argument about what I didn't say, which is a Strawman tactic, that comes from a logical fallacy.


JLB

 

[smaller]

Nice try, but you have made it clear that you believe and teach that Satan dwells in our flesh, which you contrive from 2 Corinthians 12:7.

Sorry JLB, your statements (below) claiming to be what I write about are NOT TRUE.

• Satan dwells in our flesh, and is the one doing the sinning, and not the person.
• God made Adam sin because that was God's plan all along.
• No one has the ability to choose right or wrong. No Freewill.

I'd thank you to refrain from speaking for me, as me, when such statements from YOU claiming to be what I'm writing about are LIES and HALF TRUTHS.

Go start a thread in Apologetics about it if you want to distort matters further.

 

[JLB]

Our temptations are from the same source as Jesus' Temptations, Satan, who is compelled and moved IN MAN to resist/steal/blind/destroy/kill/buffet/tempt Gods Words/Works/Ways.

So you are claiming that it was Satan, dwelling in Paul, that was doing the sinning, and not Paul himself?




JLB

 

[JLB]

Sorry JLB, your statements claiming to be what I write about are NOT TRUE.

I'd thank you to refrain from speaking for me, as me, when such statements from YOU claiming to be what I'm writing about are LIES and HALF TRUTHS.

The instant anyone realizes that internal temptations transpire (ding) internally and are of the TEMPTER, that places the TEMPTER internally in their MIND to do so. And yes, the TEMPTER is a sinner. 1 John 3:8.

Which is what I wrote, about what you believe that 1 John 3:8 says.

You are claiming that it is Satan in the mind of Paul doing the sinning.



JLB

 

[JLB]

You got quite lost on the subject matter quite a few posts back when you claimed Paul was not a sinner.

Was it Satan sinning or Paul sinning?

 

[JLB]

When scriptures observe man, scripture sees TWO PARTIES, mankind and Satan/devils. This fact is shown throughout the N.T. in scriptures such as Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2, Romans 11:32, 1 John 3:8 and many many others.

I see, so the "parties" are man and Satan/devils dwelling in the flesh.

 

[smaller]

Which is what I wrote, about what you believe that 1 John 3:8 says.

You are claiming that it is Satan in the mind of Paul doing the sinning.

JLB

Is the devil involved with sin according to 1 John 3:8 or not?

I'm pretty sure I see the devil and sin in the same sentence if I'm not mistaken:

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[JLB]

Indwelling sin/evil present are never obedient, never legal, and never cooperative with the Gospel

29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”30 Now a good way off from them there was a herd of many swine feeding. 31 So the demons begged Him, saying, “If You cast us out, permit us to go away into the herd of swine.”32 And He said to them, “Go.” So when they had come out, they went into the herd of swine. And suddenly the whole herd of swine ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and perished in the water. Matthew 8:29-32


These devils obeyed the word of God.




JLB

 

[JLB]

The instant anyone realizes that internal temptations transpire (ding) internally and are of the TEMPTER, that places the TEMPTER internally in their MIND to do so. And yes, the TEMPTER is a sinner. 1 John 3:8.

So you are saying that sin is the devil in our mind, internally?

Paul said he delighted in the law of God, with the inward man.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:21-23


How could Satan be tempting Paul from within his mind?


I thought you said Satan was in Paul's flesh? 2 Corinthians 12:7



JLB

 

[smaller]

Was it Satan sinning or Paul sinning?

Sin transpired in the flesh of Paul. Was it PAUL'S FLESH?

Absolutely. It sure wan't your flesh or my flesh, but Paul's.

So why are you claiming that it was not a Paul problem? It obviously WAS, resulting in PAUL doing THESE:

Romans 7:
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Do we see Paul saying Paul was not part of the above? NO! Obviously SIN and EVIL and CONCUPISCENT THOUGHTS AND HATED THINGS were transpiring WITH Paul.

Where it gets difficult for your positions is when PAUL describes those things as transpiring from indwelling sin, which Paul himself termed:

NO MORE I. Romans 7:17 & 20.

In Paul's equations there was I and there was NO MORE I.

Two. Count 'em. I, no more I.

Got that yet? Good.

 

[JLB]

Sin transpired in the flesh of Paul. Was it PAUL'S FLESH?

Absolutely. It sure wan't your flesh or my flesh, but Paul's.

Ok so you admit that you are teaching us that it is Satan in our flesh that is doing the sinning.


Thanks JLB

 

[smaller]

So you are saying that sin is the devil in our mind, internally?

Does the tempter tempt/steal/destroy/deceive/buffet/kill/ in mind/heart or not?

We certainly don't SEE the devil and his messengers physically.

Paul defines Satan as "a disobedient spirit." Eph. 2:2

John describes the anti-Christ also as "a spirit."

These activities of Satan are in the realm of the "spirit."

The spirit of disobedience is in the FLESH.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Doesn't take a genius to see the above.

The above is EXACTLY what Mark 4:15 shows us. When people don't see these facts, the reality of MARK 4:15 has in fact been

STOLEN from their MINDS.

 

[smaller]

Ok so you admit that you are teaching us that it is Satan in our flesh that is doing the sinning.

Thanks JLB

You can repeat it as much as you please JLB. Paul defined the matters as an issue of both I and of NO MORE I.

Your blinded sight trying to make it only Paul or only NO MORE I isn't going to compute, ever. So please be accurate or stop speaking for me at a minimum.

I'm citing Paul not myself.

Paul defined both I and NO MORE I as being involved.

The most obvious observation is that what Paul is saying seems to be quite hard for you to actually GRASP.

 

[JLB]

NO MORE I. Romans 7:17 & 20.

In Paul's equations there was I and there was NO MORE I.

Two. Count 'em. I, no more I.

Got that yet? Good.

Yeah I got it, you are having trouble reading and understanding what is plainly written in the bible.

...it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Which is why Paul says we are not to walk according to the flesh, by fulfilling it's desires.

19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 7:19-8:1


The law of sin is not Satan.



JLB

 

[JLB]

You can repeat it as much as you please JLB. Paul defined the matters as an issue of both I and of NO MORE I.

Your blinded sight trying to make it only Paul or only NO MORE I isn't going to compute, ever. So please be accurate or stop speaking for me at a minimum.

I'm citing Paul not myself.

Paul defined both I and NO MORE I as being involved.

The most obvious observation is that what Paul is saying seems to be quite hard for you to actually GRASP.

Since you haven't posted a scripture, then you are citing yourself, and not Paul.


Here is what Paul said.

20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. Romans 7:20

Sin that dwells in our flesh, not Satan.



JLB

 

[JLB]

The most obvious observation is that what Paul is saying seems to be quite hard for you to actually GRASP.

Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. Romans 7:20


I grasp that Paul says it is sin, not Satan that dwells in his flesh.

This was passed down from Adam.


12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. Romans 5:12-14

Sin entered the world through Adam's transgression.

Not Satan entered the world, through Adam's transgression.

Satan was in the world before Adam sinned, in which he tempted Eve to sin.

Sin is the transgression of God's law.

Sin is not Satan.



JLB

 

[JLB]

You can repeat it as much as you please JLB. Paul defined the matters as an issue of both I and of NO MORE I.

Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. Romans 7:20

• Here's what Romans 7:20 doesn't say -

Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but Satan that dwells in me. Romans 7:20

If Romans 7:20 said that, then you and I would be in agreement, but since it doesn't then we are not.

Please stop changing God's word to what you want it to say.



JLB