Bible Study The Work of God: Terminal Agitation Ending in Silence

[Northman]

-
While its true that the Bible is the word of God, its not the case that every verse is aimed, doctrinally, at the born again New Testament Christian.
As a matter of fact, the Book Of Hebrews is often not even directed to the born again at all, as its not dedicated or given to the "church" specifically..
And this is why much of what is in it, is actually not written to believers as any type of instruction or doctrine , and this of course creates a lot of confusion within the mentality of some who have not rightly divided the word of God (NT), and thus misapply Hebrew epistle verses, regarding the "church".
So, its not the bible that is confused, its the people who in general have been taught by the confused, which confused them.
It the people who spend more time reading theological studies then they do studying the word.
And the thing, the unfortunate thing about theological confusion, is that it tends to burrow into the self righteousness and pride of a person, evolve, and harden.
Doesn't take that long.
For example, i can show many of you that God does not count your sins against you anymore, does not even see them. Romans 4:8.
I can point out that the means to hold you guilty of them, the LAW, is gone, abolished on the Cross.
I can show you that God has removed your sin from you as far as the east is from the west.
I can explain to you that you could not be saved if you had any sin..... and that once your Faith was counted as RIGHTEOUSNESS, then righteous you are, sinless, or you were never saved......... And once you are, you remain the Righteousness of Christ for just as long as Christ has died for your ALL YOUR SIN. (Lifetime).
And how long is that?.......Its exactly as long as you will be "in Christ", and "believing on HIM who justifies the UNGODLY".
And YET.... you know what you'll do?... some of you...You'll run to 1John 1:9 and try to confess your sins that are not even there.
And then you'll say......"but what about when i do those things NOW that are called sin while i was still unsaved".
Thats easy...
You tell God you are sorry......But you dont confess the deed with the idea being that you have messed up your salvation, so you need to get it back, or redo it, or recreate it again.....by confessing sins.....trying to re-save yourself, or something similar.
OMG.
Its hilarious , but its so sad when so many are just upside down and clueless about what being made RIGHTEOUS has done for you.
Look, you are in a relationship with God, ......=family.
He's DADDY.
And just like when you blow it with a brother or a mother or a son or daughter... this thing you did, sin, whatever you want to call it...
....do they stop being your parent or your relative if you "sin"?
But you think if you "sin" against your FATHER in heaven after you are saved, that you are cut off till you confess again the sins you remember, while you dont even realize the ones you forgot?
C'mon.
C'MON !!
When you mess up, all you have done is created a prick against your conscience and a sick feeling in your heart.
God knew you were going to do it......do you realize this yet?
The "sins" you commit the next decade, ..were all known to God (foreknowledge) before He saved you.
Have you figured this out yet?
Listen....You have not broken your relationship with your Righteousness when you mess up, and that is because God created and gifted you with this based on what Christ did for you, and you can't part from it......because its NOT OF YOU.
So, when you mess up, when you do that thing again that you are so sorry about...... you have ONLY messed up the harmony between you and your Father in heaven..... You have destroyed the peace.
But you have not lost your salvation or your righteous standing, because this is not of you, this is all of GOD and the free GIFT of Righteousness.
You've just lost that clean peaceful "im right with God" feeling........The harmony with Him is undone...... So, you say you are sorry, (often with tears)..... you move on, and the peace returns, the joy comes back, and the relief from your guilt, is wonderful.
"There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ".. = YOU.
But all during this time, all during this entire process of messing up<>saying you are sorry.... you were and are just as saved and just as righteous as you were before you ever did that thing that GOD knew you were going to do before you did it.
See it?
DO........YOU.........SEE.........IT?
THIS is salvation.....THIS is the Atonement.......It is the FINISHED Work of God through Christ on a CROSS that is separate from you and what you do in your earth suit.
One you get this, you will be oh so happy to realize , = What God has done for you that YOU cant undo.
========

So, SMALLER..... all scripture is given for..........__________. But not all scripture is doctrine.

A person says, ..."all scripture , every word applies to us".

Well, if that is true, then go tell your 5 husbands that you are at the well talking to Jesus about the fact that they are not all your husbands.
Or, "you are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do"...
God and tell your pastor that this is meant just for him (doctrinally) next Sunday morning, before he steps into the pulpit, ...etc.
So, by application= all of the bible has application for us, but its not all aimed specifically at a NT believer regarding doctrine.

That is directed at the wrong person....

 

[Northman]

It is utterly and completely amazing how people can be set off by key-words. People think that when they see these words that they know exactly what the person that said those key-words is talking about. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's sickening that people are accusing a brother of saying things that he has NEVER said, it's only real in the perception of the accuser.

If scripture says that an Apostle received a messenger of satan in his flesh, then satan or his lacky WAS in his flesh. Yes, in the flesh of a Spirit-filled believer. Crazy that Paul can give loads and loads of instruction for holy living and yet he says that he does the things he shouldn't. This is supposed to be encouraging. Seems to be that when that gets resounded, albeit in not so simple terms, it gets branded as a teaching for "license" to sin or some other garbage that isn't true and was never said by anyone except those accusing.

 

[JLB]

If scripture says that an Apostle received a messenger of satan in his flesh, then satan or his lacky WAS in his flesh.

Please share the scripture that teaches us, that Paul said there was a messenger of Satan in his flesh.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Crazy that Paul can give loads and loads of instruction for holy living and yet he says that he does the things he shouldn't.

Here is what Paul taught us about his lifestyle.

I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. Galatians 2:20


Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1



JLB

 

[JLB]

It's sickening that people are accusing a brother of saying things that he has NEVER said

What was this person you are referring to accused of saying?



JLB

 

[Northman]

Please share the scripture that teaches us, that Paul said there was a messenger of Satan in his flesh.



JLB

You posted it yourself. 2nd Corinthians 12:7. It means what it says, not what someone tries to explain it to be.

 

[JLB]

This is supposed to be encouraging.

You think telling people that a Spirit filled Christian has devils in the flesh and mind is encouraging?



JLB

 

[JLB]

You posted it yourself. 2nd Corinthians 12:7. It means what it says, not what someone tries to explain it to be.

Please post the scripture, and what you believe it means, so we can refer to the actual language of the scripture itself, and discuss it.




JLB

 

[Northman]

Here is what Paul taught us about his lifestyle.

I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. Galatians 2:20


Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1



JLB

He taught more than that. What he also said was that he found himself doing opposite of what he should be doing.

 

[JLB]

He taught more than that. What he also said was that he found himself doing opposite of what he should be doing.

Please post the scripture, and what you believe it means, so we can refer to the actual language of the scripture itself, and discuss it.




JLB

 

[Northman]

You think telling people that a Spirit filled Christian has devils in the flesh and mind is encouraging?



JLB

That's you either trying to make it seem like that's what I'm saying or not understanding. What I said was that it is encouraging that even an Apostle wasn't able to do things properly when he knew what he was supposed to be doing.

 

[JLB]

That's you either trying to make it seem like that's what I'm saying or not understanding. What I said was that it is encouraging that even an Apostle wasn't able to do things properly when he knew what he was supposed to be doing.

This is a bible study thread. Please share whatever it is you believe, with the scripture that verifies your belief.



JLB

 

[JLB]

That's you either trying to make it seem like that's what I'm saying or not understanding. What I said was that it is encouraging that even an Apostle wasn't able to do things properly when he knew what he was supposed to be doing.

Please post the scripture, and what you believe it means, so we can refer to the actual language of the scripture itself, and discuss it.




JLB

 

[Northman]

Please post the scripture, and what you believe it means, so we can refer to the actual language of the scripture itself, and discuss it.




JLB

As I said, the scripture is 2nd Corinthians 12:7. There isn't anything for me to explain. I take it at face value.

 

[JLB]

As I said, the scripture is 2nd Corinthians 12:7. There isn't anything for me to explain. I take it at face value.

Ok so you take what Paul said at face value.


Thanks for sharing.


JLB

 

[Chopper]

20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. Romans 7:20

Paul says it is sin, which is in his members.

I agree with Paul.

Smaller would have us to believe, it is Satan in our members and in our mind.

What is your answer to this?

Sin in our members or Satan?

1. Sin
2. Satan


I'm not asking if we battle against Satan or not.
I'm not asking if Satan tempts us or not.
I'm not asking if Satan try's to deceive us or not.



JLB

Come on JLB, you know very well that where sin is, so is Satan. Satan = sin. Sin = Satan. Can't you see that? Or do you just want to argue!

 

[Chopper]

That would be so wonderful if it were true.

However it is not.

I challenge you in Jesus name to discuss the following point with me, in all honesty.


Smaller is teaching everyone who will listen, that Satan dwell's in our flesh and in our mind.

He uses Mark 4:15 and 2 Corinthians 12:7 as well as other scriptures, to teach his doctrine that every Spirit filled believer as well as, unbeliever's, has Satan or demons dwelling in their flesh, and tempting us all from within us; "internally".

In addition he teaches that it is Satan, or demons within us that do the sinning, and not the person themselves.

He believes this was the case with Paul the Apostle.


Please share your thoughts on this point, so we both are discussing the same thing.



Thank you, JLB

My answer is post # 396.

 

[smaller]

-
While its true that the Bible is the word of God, its not the case that every verse is aimed, doctrinally, at the born again New Testament Christian.
As a matter of fact, the Book Of Hebrews is often not even directed to the born again at all, as its not dedicated or given to the "church" specifically..

I'd consider the above sight heretical. Very close if not the same as preterism.

2 Tim. 2:16, Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4 are the gold standard of understanding, particularly Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4 as they are direct statement of fact from Jesus.

And this is why much of what is in it, is actually not written to believers as any type of instruction or doctrine , and this of course creates a lot of confusion within the mentality of some who have not rightly divided the word of God (NT), and thus misapply Hebrew epistle verses, regarding the "church".

It's not as if I've had no exposure to the above teaching. I have. It's wrong. You're off.

It's quite easy to read and understand 2 Tim. 2:16 and avoid your position ENTIRELY as a false teaching.

So, its not the bible that is confused, its the people who in general have been taught by the confused, which confused them.

When your positions eliminate the scriptures, which your positions do above, that is basically eliminating the Word. Which is exactly what this thread is about. Satan's THEFT of WORD. Mark 4:15. I'd suggest you've been very scammed. It's nothing new. Vast segments of christianity practice elimination and eradication of their own Bible that establishes their faith. It's actually quite ridiculous, AND I'd consider it a working of Satan in the churches.

The absolute largest form of Word theft is done by those who seek to eliminate O.T. LAW from being applicable to believers. This is outright theft of Word and it is a Satanic practice of Word theft, crafty as it usually is.

It the people who spend more time reading theological studies then they do studying the word. And the thing, the unfortunate thing about theological confusion, is that it tends to burrow into the self righteousness and pride of a person, evolve, and harden. Doesn't take that long.

Obviously you were taught to eliminate Word above. So, gut check time for you. I have zero respect for the practice you teach. Zero.

For example, i can show many of you that God does not count your sins against you anymore, does not even see them. Romans 4:8.
I can point out that the means to hold you guilty of them, the LAW, is gone, abolished on the Cross.

You miss the entire point of this thread. Go back through it, read the SCRIPTURES. You might find out that the DEVIL is a sinner, 1 John 3:8 and the LAW is against SINNERS, 1 Tim. 1:9. Satan is also moved to resist the Word, where it is sown, inclusive of LAW WORD. Mark 4:15, Romans 7:7-13. Therefore, do the scriptural math.

Your positions are engaged in the exact problem that this thread addresses. Spiritual blindness and theft of Word ala Mark 4:15.

I'm not going to disagree with some of your post, as we probably DO AGREE on your positions sights for the believer, so, I cut it out from this response with a note of general agreement for the balance. I have nothing against you personally in the above.

I just don't respect one eyed sights of scriptures or Word theft/eliminations as valid understandings. IF the Word is against Satan, then we are for and in behalf of every Word against Satan. Get it?

The general sight of a real spiritual adversary has been and is rapidly disappearing from the churches as blindness sets into the masses. And this of course IS exactly how God deals with our spiritual adversary. In Egypt, prior to the release of the Israelites, Pharaoh was raised up and resisted the Word of God, strongly. Romans 9:17 is a Spiritual Reality of Mark 4:15.

It's the same picture in Romans 7:13, 1 Cor. 15:56 which will result in Romans 3:19.

 

[smaller]

Come on JLB, you know very well that where sin is, so is Satan. Satan = sin. Sin = Satan. Can't you see that? Or do you just want to argue!

JLB has been strongly resisting his indwelling sin being of the devil as long as I've posted here. It's called being in denial. 1 John 3:8. Just shows how effective the thief really is.

But, if we understand the Divine Principle behind it, those in truth should EXPECT resistance to show it's face, and that's kind of the general point. The bugs crawl out of the woodwork. NOT that I have anything against JLB mind you.

 

[smaller]

No one would disagree that Satan tempts the mind,
JLB

You seem to be entirely unable to derive that temptation is internal and that means the adversary works internally, IN THE MIND.

I know it makes some christians offended. A lot of them in fact.

But that IS exactly where the Word theft and resistance of Satan and his messengers, via Mark 4:15 transpires:

INTERNALLY, IN THE MIND.

Romans 7:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

IT does not take a spiritual genius to pinpoint temptation to be internal, and of the tempter, internal to DO SO. I'd suggest that Christians of the ages of every sort have known and accepted this as HARD FACT for quite some time.

The only ODD part is how they "excuse" Satan from the equations, which is what you are really into for some ODD reason. I can only chalk that up to the working of the adversary.